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CydTulkas
Aspirant

xr700 cannot find Internet through SFP+ port

Hi all,

 

I have recently purchased an XR700 router in the hope of being able to switch the router from the provider. According to my provider I am allowed to use my own router as long as I can configure VLAN10 (802.1q decoupling), I do not need to use a password and I will receive an IP from the DHCP. Nice and smooth.

 

Furthermore they recommend using a TL-SM321B Transceiver module, which is talking on Tx1310nm/Rx1550nm. Strangely enough, the one that is in the router from the provider (Siligence SGA 441SFP0-1Gb) is talking Tx1310nm/Rx1490nm. Support could not resolve this issue, but I have a CISCO compatible GLC-1000BX-U (talking Tx1310nm/Rx1550nm) and a  GLC-BX-U (talking Tx1310nm/Rx1490nm) modules. I am aware that none of these are on the official supported modules list, and that the supported modules are duplex, but these are simplex, but as far as I understand (after speaking with the company providing the modules), this should be OK.

 

The problem is, that no matter which module I plug in, the router keeps giving me an "Error: Make sure that your SPF+ module or cable is connected ot the SFP+ port." error.

router.png

 

As far as I understand the router should also be able to accept the Siligence module, and I have tried with that too, but unfortunately that does not work either.

 

Any ideas what the issue could be? 

 

Many thanks

 

Ps.: I do not want to use any media converter, the whole purpose of purchasing this router was that I could use the SFP+ port directly.

Model: XR700|Nighthawk Pro Gaming Router
Message 1 of 16
Netduma-Fraser
NetDuma Partner

Re: xr700 cannot find Internet through SFP+ port

Just commenting to say I hope people who have a similar setup will be able to help and that I'll continue to help any way I can over on the Netduma forum in your original topic.
Message 2 of 16
schumaku
Guru

Re: xr700 cannot find Internet through SFP+ port

The old Swisscom confusion

 


@CydTulkas wrote:

Furthermore they recommend using a TL-SM321B Transceiver module, which is talking on Tx1310nm/Rx1550nm.


Where ever this recommendation is coming from - it's for a Swisscom business FTTH connection only.

 


@CydTulkas wrote:

Strangely enough, the one that is in the router from the provider (Siligence SGA 441SFP0-1Gb) is talking Tx1310nm/Rx1490nm..


As this work on your Wingo (a Swisscom brand..) CPE, Tx1310nm/Rx1490nm is correct, so these colour must be used. Same for Swisscom consumer FTTH 1000BASE-BX based connections btw.

 

It's known that the Siligence SGA 441SFP0-1Gb (1.25G Tx1310nm/Rx1490nm) has interoperability issues - it simply won't work with various routers. Can't get it to work on the R9000, too.

We deploy for several years ZyXEL USG20-VPN with the Studerus/ZyXEL supplied SFP module (for business connections, or e.g. Init7, so when I have it right also Tx1310nm/Rx1550nm only.

 

To make this post complete, where XGS PON is in place, Wingo does supply LTF7225-BH+ modules (Tx 1270nm/Rx 1577nm if the old cells re correct) with their box - it's however not possible to connect any router or switch to a XGS PON, because this requires a strictly specified ONT (special hardware and software, FMI: Swisscom BBCS Technik Handbuch p.17)

 

Message 3 of 16
DOGGAVELI
Star

Re: xr700 cannot find Internet through SFP+ port

@CydTulkasIn your XR700 internet settings you need to enable "DAC" mode. By default its on auto so select the drop down box and select DAC and apply settings. You will then see that the 10G light will start and flash once you have done this.

 

Then select Monitoring from the options then Statistics and you will see the 10G connection transmitting data and then all your setup and good to go mate.

 

Kind Regards,


Dogga.

Message 4 of 16
DOGGAVELI
Star

Re: xr700 cannot find Internet through SFP+ port

@CydTulkasthe below info is what helped someone else with the same problem.

 

The XR700 should automatically pick up the 10gb connection, the only thing we had to change for it to be noticed and work if by the following steps.

 

1. In XR700 got into internet settings;

2. Under "SFP+ Module Dection": Change that from auto to "DAC mode only"

3. Now the 10gb light should be on the XR700 providing you have a AXM765 Transceiver pluged into the 10Gb port.

Link: https://www.netgear.com/business/products/switches/modules-accessories/axm765.aspx

Once Done

Got into Monitoring in the XR700, then statistics and you should see data flowing in the SFP+ section

 

See attached photo for your records hope this helps u mate.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Dogga

Message 5 of 16
CydTulkas
Aspirant

Re: xr700 cannot find Internet through SFP+ port

@schumaku, I have seen various posts about this - as you quoted - "old Swisscom confusion", but I could not put it together. The too many wavelengths confused me big time. Thank you for the detailed explanation.

So, if I understand correctly, the Siligence module has compatibility issues, and as such I just need another module that works on Tx1310nm/Rx1490nm, and I should be good to go. Do I also understand correctly that the Netgear routers are - and the xr700 in this case is neither - picky about the module we put in? That is, I can use any module that is following the standards and is using the Rx/Tx wavelengths matching with the module from the provider? Also, it does not matter if the router has a 10G port, but I put in a 1G module, does it? I have not found a setting in the DumaOS to scale it down to 1G.

 

@DOGGAVELI, Thank you for your answer as well. I'm a bit confused, however why would I need to use the "DAC mode only" option? I thought DAC means copper only. Of course I'll try that out, I'm just curious why that would be the option to choose?

Message 6 of 16
DOGGAVELI
Star

Re: xr700 cannot find Internet through SFP+ port

@CydTulkasIt's the only way the 10G will work mate.

 

I don't know why as in the XR700 manual it says u plug the SFG plug in and it should work but never does. I know many ppl with all types of different setups and connections and this was the ony way it worked for all of us.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Dogga

Message 7 of 16
schumaku
Guru

Re: xr700 cannot find Internet through SFP+ port

@DOGGAVELI interesting idea.

 

Had run several tests on the R9000 SFP+ in the early days of the router. Various SFP+ (duplex fiber, RJ45) and SFP (duplex fiber), as well as DAC worked like a charm. As the SFP+ WAN feature became available, the SFP BiDi module I had at hand back then (not taken any notes) was recognized, the Internet connection came up.

 

Quickly retested last night with the spare module (same as yours, in Auto and DAC mode) - the log did not show any indication that the module was plugged, and as expected it was not recognized (no module or no link message). Cross check with an SFP+ RJ45 10G copper - logs in place, WAN port recognized. 

 

The base firmware of the R9000 and the XR700 are very similar, hardware anyway btw. 

Message 8 of 16
CydTulkas
Aspirant

Re: xr700 cannot find Internet through SFP+ port

So, new Cisco GLC-BX-U compatible module, no luck. Smiley Frustrated 

 

It doesn't matter if I use AUTO, or DAC mode, my xr700 does not want to recognize the module. I have tested the new module in the original router and it works like a charm, so it is the correct module.

 

@DOGGAVELI, you mentioned it works for you. What module do you have?

 

@schumaku, the issue seems to have some experience with this issue. Any idea what simplex, Tx1310/Rx1490 module would work in the router? Is it possible that the router is faulty? How could I test that?

 

Thanks a million.

Message 9 of 16
CydTulkas
Aspirant

Re: xr700 cannot find Internet through SFP+ port

@schumaku, did you make a test with a 1G module? If you did not, do you have the option to try it? I am getting the feeling that SFP+ 10G slot does not work well with an SFP 1G module. Thanks!

Message 10 of 16
CydTulkas
Aspirant

Re: xr700 cannot find Internet through SFP+ port

Hi all,

 

Merry pre-holidays to everyone. Not "happy" though, because I've made some further testing, and the results are not good. Smiley Sad

So the router that SwissCom provided has a nice feature that it displays the status of the SFP module and the connection link.

 

This is how the original Siligence module (Tx1310/Rx1490)looks like:

SiligenceSiligence

 

 

I've tried with a compatible GLC-BX-U-C (Tx1310/Rx1490) module, and - as expected - it works like a charm:

SwissGBIC-1490.png

 

 

I have also tried with some other compatible modules. No screenshot, but all of them came up without problem.

SwissGBIC-1550.png

 

Out of curiosity, I've also tried with a GLC-1000BX-U (Tx1310/Rx1550nm) module and to my surprise the connection was built up without problem. This means that the counterpart is a dual module. So the "old SwissCom confusion" is busted, one can use both modules, I guess. I take this might not be true with every connection, but for me it definitely worked.

 

 

 

BUT... None of these modules work in the xr700 router. It doesn't matter if it is in "Auto" or "DAC only mode" Unfortunately the router's OS does not have such a nice status page, and the logs do not help either. It only keeps saying, no module is found. This gives me the feeling that the SFP+ slot does not support modules on 1G.

 

Did you @schumaku, or @DOGGAVELI, or anyone else have success making it work with a fiber module that is 1G? If yes what module did you test with?

Alternatively, is there a way to force the SFP+ port to talk 1G only? @Netduma-Fraser, maybe you have more insights into this? If it is not available currently, do you know if it is in the works? Maybe could it be put on the feature request list? Maybe with a nice status page like the one above? It would help a lot with troubleshooting.

 

Thank you all.

Cyd

 

PS.: I have no idea why the pictures do not appear correctly, they appear nice in my Public album.

Message 11 of 16
Netduma-Fraser
NetDuma Partner

Re: xr700 cannot find Internet through SFP+ port

@CydTulkas what I've done is contacted the NG lead for the XR700 to bring his attention to this and see if there is anything he can advise or change to make this work. I wouldn't be able to speak as knowledgeably as him on this issue as it is a NG hardware/software concern.
Message 12 of 16
CydTulkas
Aspirant

Re: xr700 cannot find Internet through SFP+ port

@Netduma-Fraser, did you by any chance got an answer from the NG lead for the XR700? I have downloaded the latest firmware, but it still does not recognize the modules. Smiley Sad

Message 13 of 16
Netduma-Fraser
NetDuma Partner

Re: xr700 cannot find Internet through SFP+ port

No I haven't unfortunately but I've chased them again on this, I know they are really busy so it may be awhile.
Message 14 of 16
BrianKi
Aspirant

Re: xr700 cannot find Internet through SFP+ port

Since this seem to  be an active forum, I was hoping people  who have been down  this road ahead of me can answer some stupid questions.

 

 I have an XR  700 router and would like to speed up my network if possible.  I was thinking of trying to make use of the  10G feature of the  router if I could.    I realize that making 10G work will require  the upgrading  of most of my  network components, but let me start with the most basic  of questions first.

 

If I am reading Netgear's manual correctly, it seems like  the   10G capability is only via the SFP+  input on the router and that the SFP+ port is supposed to be connected to the cable modem, is that right?   The  XR700 manual suggests to me that the 10G SFP+ port  is an  alternative to the standard non-10G RJ45 internet WAN connection.   In other words, you  use one or the other to connect to the  internet, but not both.   Also right?

 

If I am correct about that, how is that possible?  I looked quickly and I could not find any 10G cable  modems, much less any that  had an  SFP+ connection.  So are there cables that connect with  SFP+ on one one end and RJ45 on the other, or do you (should you) use a media converter box and use that as the bridge between the SFP+ port on the router and the RJ45 port on the cable modem?   Or is there some other (better) way? And is it even worthwhile going down this road at all given that   (as I believe) a 10G cable modem does not exist?

 

 Also, I am  a Comcast /Xfinity  subscriber, if that makes any difference.

 

One last set of questions: 

 

 I have a separate  10G capable Netgear switch with one  SFP+ port  on it.    The RJ45 ports on the switch are also supposed to be 10G)    But  I am not sure how I get 10G to the  switch from the router if I am connecting the switch  to the router via the standard  ports on the router.  Do the ports on the router somehow convert to 10G  once  you make the 10G connection on the  router to the  internet  via the SFP+ port?  That seems unlikely  to me.  So how is the  10G benefit translated downstream from  the XR700 to the rest of your LAN?

 

Would it make sense to put my router  behind this switch   by connecting   my cable modem to  a 10G  RJ45 port on the switch, and then make a connection between the router (now behing the switch) using the single SFP+  port on the router and connecting it vis the single SFP+ port on the switch?  (I'm not  too sure that putting my switch in front of the router is a great idea.)

 

Anyway, if someone would be willing to answer some of these basic questions at a noob level that would  help me quite a bit.

 

Thanks

Message 15 of 16
schumaku
Guru

Re: xr700 cannot find Internet through SFP+ port

@BrianKi 

 

For a WAN connection from a CPE with either a 2.5GbE port (and obviously with WAN aggregation), the SFP+ port is out of specs. Even if there exist MultiGig capable RJ45-SFP+ modules (note reach is limited to typically 30 meters for 10G - there is not enough power on an SFP+ garage to support the full 100 m), the router (and the majority of network equipment) does only support 1G and 10G on the SFP+ port. Technically - different from what we're used on copper Ethernet - there is no speed negotiation or adoption intended by the SFF standards. This means only 1G and 10G link rates are possible.

 

Special note for markets where PON and XGS-PON (10G) are provided by the ISP: These are shared media, you need specific CPE hardware - just a fiber module alone isn't sufficient. So don't waste your time here.

 

For the LAN link, the most simple approach is a (SFP+) DAC cable. For a short connection distance, just from router to switch, or within a rack, inexpensive passive DAC are available in the 1 meter to 10, sometimes 15 meters length.    

 

For longer distances, fiber modules with the matching fiber (installation, patch cable(s)) are required and used in pairs*, needless to say also the same wavelength. The SFP/SFP+ modules have LC-PC/LC-UPC connectors, abusing LC-ACP (8 degree angle) will harm or destroy the module optics resp. the ferule. Multimode 50/125µm OM3 or OM4 fiber, typically at 850 nm, can run up to 30 meters for 10G. Single mode  9/125µm fiber, typical wavelength 1310 nm, can reach 10...40 km, low power versions for shorter distances exist. 

 

*BiDi modules exist, but the TX and RX must match over cross for single fiber links.

 

Some device makers require the matching signature on the module otherwise the device is rejected as not supported - not the idea of the SFF MSA. Always check what a device is supporting and requiring. Stick to the vendor types supported, and check the free market. All the big vendors are still in the goldrush in this market area.

 

 

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