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AX8 AX5700 (RAX75) Management Software freeze every day along with the AD7000 (R8900)

Vincy
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AX8 AX5700 (RAX75) Management Software freeze every day along with the AD7000 (R8900)

I bought this AX8 AX5700 (RAX75) (unfortunately, costco model is not even showing up in the dropdown...) router from Costco to replace my AD7000 (R8900)which also bought from Costco.  I did the firmware updates as soon as it forced me to complete admin setup.  I then set up the router the way I wanted.  I then enabed the Access Control and noticed same problem I have encountered in R8900.  The Device Names are not showing up for most of the devices.  I then noticed, some of the device that are on the network aren't even showing up in the access control list and some of them show up in offline list.  They are connected becasue I did not enabled the Access Control at the beginning, that means when i enabled the Access Control, they are all fall under the allowed list but not showing up in the Management software.  In addition, when I try to customize the name either from N/A or Unknown, and save, at least 50% of the time, I get "router did not sent any data".  Not sure what that means but my changes weren't saved.  Furthermore, sometime I even get session timeout even though I was going between pages.  So, is that mean Access Control page has its own weird session management??? 

That was first day story. 

Next day, I wanted to setup R8900 as Wireless Bridge from the living room to connect my Media Center which includes, TV, AV Receiver, BluRay and sometime my Macbook for troubleshooting the bridged router.  So, the moment I setup the Wireless Bridge, in few minutes, i noticed that I cannot even get to AX8 managment software from any sources like Browser, Nighthawk iOS app, Windows Genie app, Mac Genie app (Mac app is keep crashing...).  The management software just freezes on me and the only way I can fix this is by powering if off and back on.  It has been like a week now, and noticed, this became a every day routine for me.  I also tried, resetting from software as well as hard reset from the reset button but none of it worked.  To ruin my peace of mind more, I also noticed that my Wireless Bridge is also freezing up.  The weird part is, from most of the devices, I can still connect to internet but not the AppleTV, it just jumps to 169, local ip address.  So, have any of you noticed this behavior with AX8 does not matter whether it is RAX75 or RAX80, I assume they both have the same management software.... unless I am mistaken? 

For R8900, I opened a few support tickets on Netgear website, the only response i got from them when I gave them the remote access to see my problem is, they do not have device to test the issue on their end!  What a marvellous support, isn't it?

 

Oh! forgot to mention, for most of the time, the Access Control and Attached Devicesscreen only show first 20 devices.  However, in the count it says, 26 devices are connected but trust me I have a few more than that on the network... and i certainly don't think Netgear QA and UAT has done any testing its full strenght of their Management Software even though they advertize it as 25+ devices... BIZARRE!!!

 

Just noticed on the AX8 Access control with 169 ip address and in allowed list with the non-existent mac address.  Also, noticed when all the connected devices to this bridge showing up as this mac address instead of actual device mac address.  I have R6300 and R7000 bridged wirelessly as well but they all work without this issue but this R8900 acts just like Netgear!

Allowed R8900 169.254.7.76 8C:3B:AD:B1:5D:AA

 

Hope, someone has some suggestions here, otherwise, i think it is now time for me to say goodbye netgear for ever...

 
Model: RAX80|Nighthawk AX8 8-Stream WiFi Router
Model: RAX80|Nighthawk AX8 8-Stream WiFi Router
Message 1 of 13

Re: AX8 AX5700 (RAX75) Management Software freeze every day along with the AD7000 (R8900)

I'd deal with that pule of issues one at a time. They do not seem to be related.

 

Maybe other people with more expertise will be able to pick up those issues.

 

I'll start with this one:

 


@Vincy wrote:

Next day, I wanted to setup R8900 as Wireless Bridge from the living room to connect my Media Center which includes, TV, AV Receiver, BluRay and sometime my Macbook for troubleshooting the bridged router. 

 

What is your idea of a Wireless Bridge?

 

I ask because people turn up here with different interpretations of "bridge", not helped by Netgear's own indiscriminate use of the label.

 

You want the R8900 to talk to wifi on the RAX75 and to pass it on to other devices?

 

You want to wire the R8900 to the RAX75 and act as a wifi access point?

 

You have been through everything in the manual for the R8900?

 

 

There is a manual for the R8900 somewhere at the end of this link:

 

>> Click here >> R8900 | Product | Support | NETGEAR << Click here <<

 

See the section Set Up the Router in Bridge Mode.

 


@Vincy wrote:

I assume they both have the same management software.... unless I am mistaken?


I very much doubt if you are mistaken.

 

That you can't get into the graphical user interface (GUI) is a bummer. What sits at the front of the network? The modem?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V
Message 2 of 13

Re: AX8 AX5700 (RAX75) Management Software freeze every day along with the AD7000 (R8900)

Duplicated here:

 

 

AX8 AX5700 (RAX75) Management Software freeze ever... - NETGEAR Communities

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V
Message 3 of 13
Vincy
Aspirant

Re: AX8 AX5700 (RAX75) Management Software freeze every day along with the AD7000 (R8900)

Thanks Michael for your response.  About the duplicate of post that is honestly not my fault.  Even after selecting the right options from dropdowns, Netgear put my post in wrong place which I do not what is what until someone said, you better off posting this on WiFi 6 blog.  I am in IT industry since 90s and when i design a website I do not make user to guess where the user should be but design such a way, based on the selections I take them to the right place.  That is called "User Friendly!"  I think, Netgear never heard of it, unfortunately!

 

Anyway, please see my responses in red:

What is your idea of a Wireless Bridge?

All the devices, nowadays, come with both LAN port and built-in wireless, however, built-in wireless have bandwidth limitations.  But, all the LAN ports have Gigabit through put.  Therefore, I use my old routers as Wireless Bridge to bridge two routers wirelessly and use the LAN ports to connect my device with either Cat 5E or Cat 7 cables where I see more than double throughput.  I have R6300 and R7000 bridged for serveral years and they both serve me flawlessly.  But, the problem is with latest and greatest devices from Netgear which are not tested thorougly in my opinion and based on the response I have seen from the support people.

 

I ask because people turn up here with different interpretations of "bridge", not helped by Netgear's own indiscriminate use of the label.

I explained it above...

 

You want the R8900 to talk to wifi on the RAX75 and to pass it on to other devices?

Yes, on LAN ports wired.

 

You want to wire the R8900 to the RAX75 and act as a wifi access point?

No, They are at least 50ft away from each other.  RAX75 is on upper floor in the guest bedroom and the R8900 is in main floor in the living room.  From the same distance, when I upgraded R6300 to R7000, I bridged the R6300 to R7000 and when I upgraded R7000 to R8900, I bridged R7000 to R8900 and had no problems.  I also bridged R6300 from my Master Bedroom to R8900 and now RAX75 and see no issues.  I took my R8900 down yesterday, put my R7000 on main floor again and so far I have not seen freeze.  If this continues then I can tell for sure that R8900 and RAX75 are not compatible to bridge them wirelessly but will have to wait next few days to come to that conclusion.  If that is the case then its a bummer!  

 

As per Netgear, if I understand it correctly,  when you wirelessly bridge the two routers, it will also link them and I assume it works like a Access point based on the wireless device that is on the network.  NOT SURE!  But, this is what the manual says but I do not care this feature at all and my intention is to make use of gigabit LAN ports:

You can use your router in bridge mode to connect multiple devices wirelessly at the faster 802.11ac speed. You need two routers: one set up as a router and the other set up as a bridge.

Installing your router as a bridge offers the following benefits:

  • Take advantage of gigabit WiFi speeds on current devices

  • Use Gigabit WiFi for applications like video and gaming.

  • Connect multiple devices like NAS, Smart TV, Blu-ray player, and game consoles at gigabit WiFi speeds using a WiFi link. (not sure what this means)

  • Avoid the need for separate WiFi adapters for each device.

 

 

You have been through everything in the manual for the R8900?

There is nothing special to configure for what I am doing in any of those three routers, all the steps remained same for my purpose.  Whatever additional feature R8900 has it, I am not using them, so it does not matter to me.  Yes, I have went through all the instructions from Netgear!

 

Also, about the Management software, you cannot rely on Netgear!  There is a day and night difference between, R8900 and RAX75 software.  

 

No, I don't have anything in front of the RAX75 but behind it has AT&T as the Gigabit Modem and router which supplies internet connection to RAX75.  It is not like anythng else is interfering with the router becasue in the end, I am not new to what i am doing here.  I am doing this for at least 5 years if not more.  Like, I said, the problems started as I start adding devices around the house.  Their firmware as not sophisticated enough to handle many devices and whatever database they have in the firmware it totally useless and that is why you see different statistics about the connected devices from difference interfaces to its Management Portal.  I showed them to the support but they had no answers, I don't even think that they convey these bugs to the engineers, to be honest!  They just want to bring the new technology to the market to make money as much as possible.  I was married to DLink before i tried R6300 from Netgear.  Only, DLink and Netgear has better User Inface for the Management Software.  I rate DLink number one in that perspective, the last rounter i used was DIR-825 and i still have it and use it as a switch by putting DD-WRT firmware in it.  But the sad part of DLink is they have fallen behind the technology and that why I had to switch Netgear but loved the R6300 and R7000 and still use them. 

Message 4 of 13
Vincy
Aspirant

Re: AX8 AX5700 (RAX75) Management Software freeze every day along with the AD7000 (R8900)

Alright, Netgear removed my font color after submitting my last response except for one little thing!  WYSWYG does not play here! LOL!  it is WYSNWYG!

Message 5 of 13

Re: AX8 AX5700 (RAX75) Management Software freeze every day along with the AD7000 (R8900)


@Vincy wrote:

Thanks Michael for your response.  About the duplicate of post that is honestly not my fault.  Even after selecting the right options from dropdowns, Netgear put my post in wrong place which I do not what is what until someone said, you better off posting this on WiFi 6 blog. 

 


Believe me, no one is accusing you of crimes against humanity for the misplaced post. It happens all the time and is a natural consequence of the rat's nest that Netgear has created in this community.

 

Forgive me if you thought I was complaining. I just wanted to avoid duplicated efforts.

 

The "dropdown" thing is a part of the problem. You have to start in the right place before your hardware is available in the dropdown. Sadly, if you start somewhere else and pick the right device in the wrong section, which can happen such is the inconsistency of this place, the board does not move posts to the right area.

 

Then there is the problem that not all models appear in the drop down, especially different hardware version or, as in your case, stuff that may be too new to have reached the database.

 

Get the picture? Confused? Me too, and I am a regular.

 

This mess is one reason why, unlike some people, I do not suggest that people post in "the right section". That just leads to duplicates that can confuse everyone. Instead, I suggest looking in the right place for similar messages and ask the Netgear moderators to move misplaced messages.

 

As to your long saga, let's pick up this bit:

 


@Vincy wrote:

What is your idea of a Wireless Bridge?

All the devices, nowadays, come with both LAN port and built-in wireless, however, built-in wireless have bandwidth limitations.  But, all the LAN ports have Gigabit through put.  Therefore, I use my old routers as Wireless Bridge to bridge two routers wirelessly and use the LAN ports to connect my device with either Cat 5E or Cat 7 cables where I see more than double throughput.  I have R6300 and R7000 bridged for serveral years and they both serve me flawlessly.  But, the problem is with latest and greatest devices from Netgear which are not tested thorougly in my opinion and based on the response I have seen from the support people.

 


Wireless bridge is also known as repeater mode in some documentation, or even "WDS" (Wireless Distribution System).

 

That's why I asked for clarification. Not everyone uses the right labels.

 


@Vincy wrote:

 

Also, about the Management software, you cannot rely on Netgear!  There is a day and night difference between, R8900 and RAX75 software.  

 


Not sure what you mean by that. The apps for control with mobile devices are the same.

 

The graphical user interface (GUI) will also be pretty common, but with firmware modifications to match the hardware. Even the Orbi and Nighthawk ranges have the same basic approach, just tailored for the hardware.

 

The R8900 and RAX75 firmware are different, which is why you see different things. The software, your browser or the desktop and mobile apps, really just gives you access to the devices.

 

The day and night difference between the R8900 and RAX75 is in the firmware.

 


@Vincy wrote:

 

No, I don't have anything in front of the RAX75 but behind it has AT&T as the Gigabit Modem and router which supplies internet connection to RAX75.  

The AT&T Gigabit Modem and router mean that you run the risk of the dreaded "double NAT".

 

Two routers on your network can cause headaches. For example, you can end up with local address problems. Among other things, the other router can misdirect addresses that the Netgear router usually handles, such as routerlogin.net or the usual IP address for a router, 192.168.1.1.

This explains some of the other drawbacks.

What is Double NAT? | Answer | NETGEAR Support

Unless you have specific reasons for using two routers – to create two separate networks for example – it is often easier to use just one router and then to set up the second router as a wifi access point. Netgear advises this, as does just about every site you will visit.

It may be possible to put the modem/router into modem only (bridge) mode and then to use the second device as the router. But some Internet service providers, such as BT in the UK, supply modem/routers that won't work in bridge mode. There may be ways to get the modem/router to cooperate, but sometimes it is easier to put the second router into AP mode. But that has its own drawbacks:

Disabled Features on the Router when set to AP Mode | Answer | NETGEAR Support

 

 

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V
Message 6 of 13
Vincy
Aspirant

Re: AX8 AX5700 (RAX75) Management Software freeze every day along with the AD7000 (R8900)

Michael, once again thanks for your response. 

 

However, you're going off road here.  Whatever you're telling me is irrelevant here because I am not a novice user!   I use two routers with totally different configurations for my own purpose and that is not the question here.  Like I said, I am not new to networking and I have been in IT industry since 90s.  I have also tried daisy chaining routers for some time but did not like the setup the way I wanted. 

 

However, my real question in this forum was to see if anyone else also encountered the problem I am facing.  Which is not able to access the Management software by routerlogin.net or routerlogin.com or routers ip address or using Netgears Apps like Nighthawk or Genie.   Not being able to access the router has nothing to do with double NAT or anything else.  I am not talking about connecting to the network here. There is a webserver on every router which gives you access to the router, so that one can manage the router as well as control the connected devices.  I could not connect to it regardless of the interface, wired or wireless.  The Double NAT creates conflict only when you have same network configurations but, in my case, I am not that beginner.  I never use default configuration; I use my own set of IP configurations on different subnets.

 

Trust me, I use this configuration since I switched to AT&T from Comcast in 2015 or so, with R7000 and had no problems.  

 

 

Message 7 of 13
Christian_R
NETGEAR Moderator

Re: AX8 AX5700 (RAX75) Management Software freeze every day along with the AD7000 (R8900)

Hi Vincy, 

 

First of all, we appreciate you taking the time to write a detailed post. I've noticed that you mentioned you've gotten in contact with support. I'd like to have your case escalated and when you have a chance, please send me a message with your cases number(s) and email address. 

 

Thanks,

Christian 

Message 8 of 13
Vincy
Aspirant

Re: AX8 AX5700 (RAX75) Management Software freeze every day along with the AD7000 (R8900)

Hi Christian, thank you, for you kind response.

 

No I have not contacted the support yet but now I know what the problem is.  I have taken down the R8900 from the Wireless Bridge and put the R7000 back on Wireless Bridge on Sunday, August 11, 2019.  Since then I have not seen any freeze on Management Software.  I am able to get to the Main router as well as to the Bridged routers management software without the freeze.  

 

That means, R8900 cannot be wirelessly bridged with RAX75 for some reason.  May be, it is lacking with some config setting that causes this issue.  You guys at Netgear should have better understanding than I do.  I have to try one more thing before I contact the support, I have to try bridging wired if possible or just use it as AP mode and see if there are any conflicts.

Message 9 of 13
Christian_R
NETGEAR Moderator

Re: AX8 AX5700 (RAX75) Management Software freeze every day along with the AD7000 (R8900)

Vincy,

 

Thanks for following up. Looking forward to your next update on the thread and feel free to reach out if I can be of any further assistance. 

 

~Christian 

Message 10 of 13
NaikP26
Initiate

Re: AX8 AX5700 (RAX75) Management Software freeze every day along with the AD7000 (R8900)

Hello, I bought AX8 AX5700 from Costco 2 weeks ago and I’m facing the same issue as you explained, the management software freezes. I can still access the router remotely from the app which helps me to reboot.
I have Comcast internet with the SB6190 Arris modem connecting to my router RAX75. Any help would be appreciated.
Model: RAX80|Nighthawk AX8 8-Stream WiFi Router
Message 11 of 13
NaikP26
Initiate

Re: AX8 AX5700 (RAX75) Management Software freeze every day along with the AD7000 (R8900)

Update: Yesterday I checked the log of my modem SB6190, it had many events of  CMTS rejection and all downlink channels were having large numbers on uncorrectables. upon googling for use of multiple known CPE which might have caused the router management software to freeze. As of now I am monitoring the logs and will check if the router freezes again.

 

Thanks,

NaikP

Model: RAX80|Nighthawk AX8 8-Stream WiFi Router
Message 12 of 13
Vincy
Aspirant

Re: AX8 AX5700 (RAX75) Management Software freeze every day along with the AD7000 (R8900)

BTW, I have returned my very first AX8 router to COSTCO long time ago because it was nothing but a headache for me.  However, during thanks giving days, I bought two of them again from Costco hoping Netgear may have fixed the issues but it turned out to be "I AM WRONG!”  I just turned on one of the router last week, and kept the same SSID as my R8900 but the moment I did that, I could not even connect back to AX8, and somehow it was getting the IP Address from R8900 even thought it was not connected to it.  Very strange!  Both, R8900 and AX8 are connected to AT&T router but not sure how it AX8 gets the IP Address from R8900.  When I checked AT&T modem/router, it says AX8 is inactive.  The only way I can get back to AX8 is by resetting it.  

 

I then, re-setup the AX8 and used the brand new SSID, and then used my laptop and iPhone X to connect to all three routers to see which one performs better.  Guess what?  AX8 performed the least!  On my iPhone speed test, it reported, both AT&T and R8900 router gave me about 400mbps on both upload/download but AX8 just about 100mbps.  So, now I am guessing what the heck I need this crap?  The reason I bought two of them is because to set one AX8 as 5 GHz only and other AX8 as 2.4 GHz only to separate the traffic.  Because I have a lot of switches and other gadgets that only support 2.4Ghz, I wanted to have a router just server for them with better coverage.  And all of my Home Theater and mobile and computers can connect on 5 GHz but it does not seem like Netgear is the option when I looked at the speed test results.  

 

Keep in mind that these test I have conducted from the same room where all three routers are keeping them in separate channels to avoid any interferences.  The distance from my iPhone and routers were just less than 5 feet.  Also, wired to AX8 did not produce the best result as well, just got 400mbps on my HP laptop.  I have not tested on R8900 and AT&T router with wired connection yet but that will be done this coming weekend.  

 

Unfortunately, I have to spend a lot of time with this Netgear routers to make them work the way I want because the QA (not sure UAT exist in Netgear) at Netgear is 1000% useless as I see all these issues.  

 

I have not tested, keeping the AX8 as my main router and having R8900 wirelessly bridged to it so that I get better throughput on my AppleTV yet but I keep my hopes low based on what I have already seen and experienced....

 

I will keep update on this once I have tested in the coming days.  Next few days will decide whether I keep these routers or they will again go back to COSTCO!

 

Model: RAX80|Nighthawk AX8 8-Stream WiFi Router
Message 13 of 13
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