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Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84

Redtulips7
Luminary

New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84

New Features and Enhancements:

  • Supports DFS channels and the 160 MHz mode for the United States.

Bug Fixes:

  • Fixes the router web interface issues that might occur when setting the Multi-Gig Ethernet port as the WAN preference.
  • Includes security fixes

https://kb.netgear.com/000060819/RAX120-Firmware-Version-1-0-0-84

Model: RAX120| AX6000 - Nighthawk AX12 12-Stream Wi-Fi 6 Router
Message 1 of 27
kc6108
Luminary

Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84

That's the firmware I was alluding to...

 

Have you given it a whirl yet? DFS support was expected, but support for all DFS channels wasn't 🙂

 

It's imperative that they add WAN aggregation support for this model. They seem to have added the option to use the multi-gig LAN port for WAN duties, but LACP link aggregation of the WAN and LAN port(s) for multi-gig Internet is way more important. Especially since the CM1100 is out, and the CM1200 will be available very soon (if not already).

Model: RAX120| AX6000 - Nighthawk AX12 12-Stream Wi-Fi 6 Router
Message 2 of 27
schumaku
Guru

Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84


@kc6108 wrote:

It's imperative that they add WAN aggregation support for this model.


Only for the el-cheepo CPE makers not investing in nowadays inexpensive MultiGig technology. And no, LAG/port trunking/binding is not a substitution nor named MultiGig or Multi-Gig . only Netgear does abuse the designation in this context What is Multi-Gig Internet? - for techs and the press MultiGig is 2.5GbE, 5 GbE, ...

 

One thing I'm wondering: Everyone having tested e.g. NAS with LAG/port trunking/binding knows that the complete aggregated speed can only be reached if multiple clients (resp. MAC addresses) - between the same MAC (and that's what we have in my understanding between a cable modem and a router) the speed can't exceed the available bandwidth on one link. 

 


@kc6108 wrote:

It's imperative that they add WAN aggregation support for this model.

 

They seem to have added the option to use the multi-gig LAN port for WAN duties, but LACP link aggregation of the WAN and LAN port(s) for multi-gig Internet is way more important.


Cable Modems are a dying species here in Switzerland (leaving alone that virtually no cable TV provider worldwide - North America seems to be almost unique allowing user supplied CPEs) - my friends at local cable companies stopped any investment in this technology - focus is on fiber, where not available G.fast.

 

 

Message 3 of 27
kc6108
Luminary

Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84

Here in the US, we have a VERY long way to go. We have thousands of (large and small) rural areas.

AT&T fiber sucks because of the lack of ability to turn off NAT completely (only limited, passthru mode available). Google Fiber is awesome but not in many areas. Cable asymmetrical gigabit is just came to my town in the last few months.

There are basically NO modems with multi-gig ports here.

You are correct, LAG is different than multi-gig. It does take more than one connection to saturate a two gigabit connection. There are some cities with fiber and cable options for two gigabit here. Mostly business class, but for a one-time, $1k connection charge, some “lucky” residents can get it.

We have ~6 cable modems now with LACP LAG capabilities. So here in the US, my statement stands.
Model: RAX120| AX6000 - Nighthawk AX12 12-Stream Wi-Fi 6 Router
Message 4 of 27
kc6108
Luminary

Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84

Also, when the latest DOCSIS certifications/proposals are finalized and start getting implemented (in 1-2 years), cable will finally have the capability to achieve <1 ms pings, whereas fiber will still have the ~10ms initial overhead. Not to mention 10 gigabit symmetrical capabilities, etc. Cable has always been faster than fiber in theory, but soon cable will rein in regards to gaming, etc.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r32281954-Connectivity-DOCSIS-3-1-Real-Life-Ping~start=60

Also, with AQM, DOCSIS 3.1 modems almost eliminate bufferbloat on the upload side. It’s built in. QoS in consumer routers can’t handle gig speeds so this is huge.

Message 5 of 27
schumaku
Guru

Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84

Hey, I understand that part. The fiber and G.fast services here (along with the pretty good cable TV services) are typically triple.play, so the ISP provided CPE replace the no longer existing ISDN and any POTS which is phased out here in favour of a full IP solution. No way to replace a ISP CPE, and consumer CPEs don't allow IP passthrough - only business contract CPEs do. Replacing these would mean no POTS-like local telephone service (with emergency services et all). For IP-Internet only connections, there are no restrictions on fiber. By the end of 2019, there is no more POTS, all phone/Internet connections (and must allow to offer 3Mb/s / 300 Mb/s Internet) will be migrated to an all-IP solution. Welcome to the new world.

 

Oh and we have one ISP offering symmetric 10 Gb Internet (TV and free national telephony) for about USD 55 per month - on fiber of course, too. 

 

The crucial question is how these LAG are working in reality. On the Nighthawks like the R9000/XR700, the aggregation is implemented by Linux bonding btw. - suspect it's very similar on these AX devices as there are no capable switch chips in place.

10 ms? No GPON here, too. We get some 1.2 ... 1.8 ms on the fiber links (while multiple IGMP multicast UHD streams up, and some average Internet usage by four people, over ISP CPE NAT), popular ISP performance test site are in the 2.x ms range, about double over local WiFi (figure...).. Real world numbers - not hypothetical numbers. 

 

Even in next-gen DOCSIS, the had-ends will (again) move much nearer to the customers, very similar to the move from DSL to G.fast - everything else is fiber. The only point of pushing DOCSIS again is to protect the investment in the last mile and the in-house distribution.

Your president should invest in technology for the citizens (and their social security btw.) instead of walls - look to China: The wall didn't help. First-mover counties in technologies communications, autonomous driving trucks, and autonomous individual transport will and will gain a huge economical (and ecological) momentum. 

Nuff politics, sorry for the diversion.

Message 6 of 27
Redtulips7
Luminary

Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84

First off nice to see NG starts adding most needed features in the Router, thx to NG. I did update the FW last night, followed by reset to Factory default then manually enter setting as well as new HT160 but honestly didn't see any improvement over previous FW...

Model: RAX120| AX6000 - Nighthawk AX12 12-Stream Wi-Fi 6 Router
Message 7 of 27
schumaku
Guru

Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84


@Redtulips7 wrote:

... but honestly didn't see any improvement over previous FW...


What other impreovement you expect, based on the release notes?

Message 8 of 27
avtella
Prodigy

Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84

HT160 gives massive gains but is more susceptible to interference and therefore reduced range.

On the RAX80 on HT160 I could get even 1 floor down about about (140 MB/s) 1120 Mbps down on my laptop when transferring files from router USB attached Samsung T5 SSD. On HT80 it’s more like 80-85 MB/s 640-640 Mbps. The R7800 could also hit around 960+ Mbps on HT160.

Unless you have a laptop with an Intel 9260ac WiFi chip HT160 won’t help you.
Message 9 of 27
Redtulips7
Luminary

Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84


@schumaku wrote:

@Redtulips7 wrote:

... but honestly didn't see any improvement over previous FW...


What other impreovement you expect, based on the release notes?


I would like to see better & modern UI, like to see better range and bandwidth on 5Ghz, like to Samsung and Others not only Apple in the Attatch Device List, DFS Chanel on 2.4Ghz................

Model: RAX120|Nighthawk AX12 12-Stream WiFi Router
Message 10 of 27
avtella
Prodigy

Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84

I agree on the UI but in terms of range you won’t get much more due to legal power output limits. With no ax clients you won’t see any gains over an ac router.

There is no such thing as DFS for 2.4 GHz.

DFS means when weather radars or other priority agencies utilize that portion of the 5Ghz spectrum the router needs to leave the affected channels.
Message 11 of 27
schumaku
Guru

Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84


@Redtulips7 wrote:

@schumaku wrote:

What other impreovement you expect, based on the release notes?


I would like to see better & modern UI, like to see better range and bandwidth on 5Ghz, like to Samsung and Others not only Apple in the Attatch Device List, DFS Chanel on 2.4Ghz................


Guess why I asked "based on the release notes" 8-) Anway ...:

 

  • UI ... well, that's part of the product design, unlikley to see a brand new funky Web UI or cleaned up mess from the 1990 design on a sub-sub-sub-minor update.
  • Better range and bandwidth ... standards, technology, and regulatory limits are already pushed to the limits on curent 802.11ac APs - and you do understand that there are always to parters on a connection, where the antenna capabilities are ways below of a router with big wings. Assume you don't talk of WiFi 6 clients.
  • Samsung is a little bit generic, but I guess you talk about Android ... face it: Apple iOS (the "big OS anyway as there are many more protocols up) is a little bot more "chatty" than Android. Deep packet inspection is a challenge. Very often, you won't see much - the first thing (the device name) iOS users enter isn't becoming available on the network on most Android units. We can dispute now if this is good or bad, but look here on a (different) system:
    connected clients - device types.PNG

  • The DFS thingie is already answered, thank you @avtella 

 

Message 12 of 27
Redtulips7
Luminary

Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84


@schumaku wrote:

@Redtulips7 wrote:

@schumaku wrote:

What other impreovement you expect, based on the release notes?


I would like to see better & modern UI, like to see better range and bandwidth on 5Ghz, like to Samsung and Others not only Apple in the Attatch Device List, DFS Chanel on 2.4Ghz................


Guess why I asked "based on the release notes" 8-) Anway ...:

 

  • UI ... well, that's part of the product design, unlikley to see a brand new funky Web UI or cleaned up mess from the 1990 design on a sub-sub-sub-minor update.
  • Better range and bandwidth ... standards, technology, and regulatory limits are already pushed to the limits on curent 802.11ac APs - and you do understand that there are always to parters on a connection, where the antenna capabilities are ways below of a router with big wings. Assume you don't talk of WiFi 6 clients.
  • Samsung is a little bit generic, but I guess you talk about Android ... face it: Apple iOS (the "big OS anyway as there are many more protocols up) is a little bot more "chatty" than Android. Deep packet inspection is a challenge. Very often, you won't see much - the first thing (the device name) iOS users enter isn't becoming available on the network on most Android units. We can dispute now if this is good or bad, but look here on a (different) system:
    connected clients - device types.PNG

  • The DFS thingie is already answered, thank you @avtella 

I see more of Apple Products than anything else in the Device lists!!!! Where is Arlo,Amazon Devices or Samsung? I see Google Nexus then why not Samsung or LG?


 

Model: RAX120|Nighthawk AX12 12-Stream WiFi Router
Message 13 of 27
Redtulips7
Luminary

Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84

AX12.jpg

Model: RAX120|Nighthawk AX12 12-Stream WiFi Router
Message 14 of 27
Redtulips7
Luminary

Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84

AX12.jpg

Model: RAX120|Nighthawk AX12 12-Stream WiFi Router
Message 15 of 27
Redtulips7
Luminary

Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84

I ran speed test in the same Room that AX12 located 6 Feet away with Note 9Screenshot_20190406-145212_Speedtest.jpgScreenshot_20190406-145253_Speedtest.jpgScreenshot_20190406-145330_Speedtest.jpg

Model: RAX120|Nighthawk AX12 12-Stream WiFi Router
Message 16 of 27
schumaku
Guru

Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84


@Redtulips7 wrote:

I see more of Apple Products than anything else in the Device lists!!!! Where is Arlo,Amazon Devices or Samsung? I see Google Nexus then why not Samsung or LG?


As approving in-line images takes more (read: to much @ChristineT @Christian_R) time over weekends and holidays - are you talking about the pre-defined "Device Type" list as we had on the R9000 already - which is mostly pure text (finger printing these individual Nexus devices for example is almost impossible).

 

I know why these came to the list: Early adopters used Apple and Google Nexus mobile devices (gee, not LG or Sammy or whatever ... ), Google Pixel are not listed, so you see roughly at which point Netgear has stopped to listen to our requests.

 

R9000 - Attached Devices - Device Type.PNG

 

Message 17 of 27
Redtulips7
Luminary

Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84

Now you can see download speeds are lower than upload speed!!! with Nighthawk R9000 it just total opposite...

Model: RAX120|Nighthawk AX12 12-Stream WiFi Router
Message 18 of 27
schumaku
Guru

Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84


@Redtulips7 wrote:

I ran speed test in the same Room that AX12 located 6 Feet away with Note 9

Have a local high-performance test system on your LAN, using a fast USB 3.0 SSD, ... ?

 

What difference were discovered to the R9000 (on 5 GHz 802.11ac, not .11ad!)?

Message 19 of 27
Redtulips7
Luminary

Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84

I have Core i9 7900X OC TO 4.5Ghz with Sammy 970 Pro M2 SSD so LAN was never issue

Model: RAX120|Nighthawk AX12 12-Stream WiFi Router
Message 20 of 27
Redtulips7
Luminary

Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84


@schumaku wrote:

@Redtulips7 wrote:

I ran speed test in the same Room that AX12 located 6 Feet away with Note 9

Have a local high-performance test system on your LAN, using a fast USB 3.0 SSD, ... ?

 

What difference were discovered to the R9000 (on 5 GHz 802.11ac, not .11ad!)?


here it is................vvv.jpg

Model: RAX120|Nighthawk AX12 12-Stream WiFi Router
Message 21 of 27
Redtulips7
Luminary

Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84

Why NG have deleted pictures???

Model: RAX120|Nighthawk AX12 12-Stream WiFi Router
Message 22 of 27
schumaku
Guru

Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84

Have you signed or agreed on some limited NDA
or special terms before you for the RAX120 on that special program?
Message 23 of 27
Redtulips7
Luminary

Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84


@schumaku wrote:
Have you signed or agreed on some limited NDA
or special terms before you for the RAX120 on that special program?

I see that now, NG log me out....

Message 24 of 27
PimpDiggler
Guide

Re: New AX12[RAX120] Firmware Version 1.0.0.84

I would like to be able to sort my attached devices by any of the columns

Message 25 of 27
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