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RAX200 (AX12) weaker & slower than R7000 - (I've lost 70Mbs and WiFi is plop)

Des73
Aspirant

RAX200 (AX12) weaker & slower than R7000 - (I've lost 70Mbs and WiFi is plop)

Hi Guys,

Ive just installed my new AX12 router in the same place as my old R7000.

The only thing ive changed is the SSIDs to what I had before so all network devices can work again.

(I will change this at a later date).

 

Everything is the same except the router.

I have a BT FTTP connection with a fibre modem in the house downstairs.

I am in the upstairs office about 6/7m from the router.  (Its a new build house so wood walls).

 

Slow Internet

I used to get a constant 270Mbs download using SPEEDTEST app on a MAC.

Now its 200Mbs if I am lucky!!!!    Where has 70Mbs gone?

 

I was expecting this new router to be at least the same out of the box, or am I missing something?

Surely only the WIFI has changed not the internet speed?

 

Crappy WiFi 

Also, I used to get a solid 3 bars on my phone for WiFi strength, I now only get 2 on 2.4 and 5G?

(This is in the same upstairs office about 6/7m from the router).

It wont even pick up one of the 5G channels its so weak.

I was expecting this to deffinately be better than before

 

Any help please?

I am hoping I am making some schoolboy error somewhere.....

I will start to look around on hear to see if anyone else has had problems.

I just didnt expect to / or want to have to start looking at tweaking channels and checking interference with a much superior product.....

 

Cheers,

Des.

 

Message 1 of 23
plemans
Guru

Re: RAX200 (AX12) weaker & slower than R7000 - (I've lost 70Mbs and WiFi is plop)

What wireless card is in the mac? 

Have you tried changing the channels the rax200 is on? Maybe theres interference on one. 

have you tried speedtesting on each of the 2x 5ghz bands? and not just one? 

What speed do you have set for the rax? is it set for "up to 4800mbps"

 

Current Setup: CM2000-> RBK750-> GS716v2-> RAXE500-> Pi-hole->
Message 2 of 23
Des73
Aspirant

Re: RAX200 (AX12) weaker & slower than R7000 - (I've lost 70Mbs and WiFi is plop)

Hi,
Thanks for replying so fast.
Its all default setting at the mo.
 

What wireless card is in the mac?    AirPort Extreme  (0x14E4, 0x134)    (Its an old MBP)

Have you tried changing the channels the rax200 is on? Maybe theres interference on one. - Not yet

Ive got WIFI Explorer and I’ve added a screen shot below if that helps. (I dont really understand it all)....
My printer seems to have a stronger signal than my 2.4G network?

have you tried speedtesting on each of the 2x 5ghz bands? and not just one? 

2.4G Auto - Upto 1200Mbs - Speed 35Mbs fluctuating  (Used to be 10Mbs solid)
5G1 44 - Up to 4800Mbs - Speed 200Mbs fluctuating (Used to be 270 solid)
5G2 100 - Up to 2400Mbs - Speed 280Mbs pretty solid       (Sorry about the name im childish Smiley Happy......

What speed do you have set for the rax? is it set for "up to 4800mbps” - As above.

 

Screenshot 2021-08-18 at 15.33.14.png

Message 3 of 23
Des73
Aspirant

Re: RAX200 (AX12) weaker & slower than R7000 - (I've lost 70Mbs and WiFi is plop)

and now hopefully with screen shot

 

Screenshot 2021-08-18 at 15.33.14.jpg

Message 4 of 23
Des73
Aspirant

Re: RAX200 (AX12) weaker & slower than R7000 - (I've lost 70Mbs and WiFi is plop)

One last go...

Screenshot 2021-08-18 at 15.33.14a.png

Message 5 of 23
Des73
Aspirant

Re: RAX200 (AX12) weaker & slower than R7000 - (I've lost 70Mbs and WiFi is plop)

I dont know why the image wont show, tried .png and .jpg and got it under 500kb...

 

Strangely tho.

Ive just tested the speed on the PS4 in the same office upstairs next to my MAC using the 5G network my mac is slower on.

It used to test between 130/160Mbs and now its on 210Mbs so fast than my old R7000

 

 

Message 6 of 23
plemans
Guru

Re: RAX200 (AX12) weaker & slower than R7000 - (I've lost 70Mbs and WiFi is plop)

Photos have to be approved by a moderator. right now only the first one is showing. 

 

channel 44 is only showing as 20hz wide on your scanner. that'd reduce its link speed from "up to 4800mbps" down to 600mbps.

4800=160hz

2400=80hz

1200=40hz

600=20hz

And thats in a 4x4 configuration. most wireless devices are only 2x2 antenna devices. Meaning your link speed would only be around 300mbps. 

Plus your higher band is set at "up to 2400mbps" which is only 80 hz wide. 

You can set the higher band up. 

Not sure why the lower band is only broadcasting at 20hz wide. 

What firmware version are you on? 

Try setting the lower band to "up to 2400mbps" to see if it'll change to 80hz wide. 

Current Setup: CM2000-> RBK750-> GS716v2-> RAXE500-> Pi-hole->
Message 7 of 23
plemans
Guru

Re: RAX200 (AX12) weaker & slower than R7000 - (I've lost 70Mbs and WiFi is plop)

nevermind. was looking at the wrong network Smiley Happy

the channel 44 is 160hz wide. 

but try setting it down and changin gthe channel its broadcasting on. 

Current Setup: CM2000-> RBK750-> GS716v2-> RAXE500-> Pi-hole->
Message 8 of 23
Razor512
Virtuoso

Re: RAX200 (AX12) weaker & slower than R7000 - (I've lost 70Mbs and WiFi is plop)

If your area is not congested, on the WiFi settings, uncheck the 20/40MHz coexistance setting for the 2.4GHz band. Newer netgear routers have been more willing to drop to 20 MHz channel width when overlapping APs are detected. While it is useful if the overlapping APs are highly active. If they are not very active where you will end up with a ton of airtime sharing issues, then you will notice a near doubling of the performance on the 2.4GHz band.

 

For 5GHz, it should be significantly faster, The RAX200 with a 2 stream 802.11ax client, is able to deliver a real world throughput of 1.8Gbps to 1.9Gbps on a 2.4Gbps PHY rate. Furthermore compared to the R7000, it also has a significantly higher transmit power on both the 2.4GHz and 5GHz band. Beyond that, one area that Netger does well in, is improving receiver sensitivity and minimizing self-noise, thus maintaining higher speeds across a given range (less of a dropoff), thus even in those cases, performance still improves.

 

The one exception, is if you use DFS channels, If you do not have any devices that support 160MHz channel width on the 5GHz band, then change the WiFi mode from "Up to 4800 Mbps" to "Up to 2400 Mbps", this is because in the US the FCC unneessarily restricts any transmissions that enter the DFS range to a max of 250mW instead of the normal 1000mW. That will cause the router to use 80MHz channel width on the 5GHz band, which will allow it to avoid the use of DFS channels.

 

Depending on the AP, sometimes signal strengths can change, e.g., if you move from a model that has 2dBi antnnas, to 5dBi antennas, then clients a floor above or below the WiFi router will see a small drop in signal strength. Furthermore signal strength can be unreliable of some lower end WiFi adapters if very close to the router, since some lower end WiFi radios handle receiver overload rather poorly.

 

 

Message 9 of 23
Des73
Aspirant

Re: RAX200 (AX12) weaker & slower than R7000 - (I've lost 70Mbs and WiFi is plop)

Hi,
 
Firmware Version V1.0.3.106_1.0.58
 
Original settings:
2.4G Wireless settings - GET_YOUR_OWN_2 - Ch: Auto (7) - Upto 1200Mbs @ 20Mhz
5G Wireless Settings - GET_YOUR_OWN_5 - Ch: 44 - Upto 4800Mbs @ 160Mhz —> Change (down to) Upto 2400
5G Wireless Settings - GET_YOUR_OWN_69 - Ch: 100 - Upto 2400Mbs @ 80Mhz —> Change (up to) Upto 4800
 
After
2.4G Wireless settings - GET_YOUR_OWN_2 - Ch: Auto (7) - Upto 1200Mbs @ 20Mhz
5G Wireless Settings - GET_YOUR_OWN_5 - Ch: 44 - Upto 2400Mbs @ 80Mhz —> Started slow at 180Mbs dropped to 60 but increased to 230Mbs??  Really fluctuating badly.
5G Wireless Settings - GET_YOUR_OWN_69 - Ch: 100 - Upto 4800Mbs @ 160Mhz —> Doesnt work, gone from graph ??
Note: 69 disapeared for 10mins then came back...
 
Im changing the numbers but not sure exactly what I am doing lol.
 
Conclusion
 
GetyourOwn5 looks smaller on the scanner now but seems to get better speeds although it fluctuates like a mofo.
Speed was 200Mbs - Now reaches 230Mbs
 
GetYourOwn69 looks wider on the scanner now. 
Speed was 280Mbs - Now dropped to 230Mbs
 
What do you recommend I change the channel to for GetYourOwn5?
 
Cheers,
Des.
 
Message 10 of 23
Razor512
Virtuoso

Re: RAX200 (AX12) weaker & slower than R7000 - (I've lost 70Mbs and WiFi is plop)

Are any of your WiFi radios able to use channel 149?

 

How is the 2.4GHz performance with 20/40 MHz coexistence unchecked?

Message 11 of 23
Des73
Aspirant

Re: RAX200 (AX12) weaker & slower than R7000 - (I've lost 70Mbs and WiFi is plop)

Hi Guys,
 
Firstly sorry for the long post, im getting really frustrated now......
I played with settings last night and tonight.
I had to leave it alone all day as I was working.
Below is a little diary for each network and result of changes made.
  
Conclusion so far:
My current conclusion is the RAX200 is not fit for purpose.
The RAX200 should out perform a 10 year old R7000 out of the box surely?
I do not expect it to perform worse in the same scenario and with the same equipment.  (I simply swapped the routers over).
To be fair, I haven’t even booted up SONOS yet or another 8/10 wifi devices (TV’s, game consoles, phones, Kids aren’t here) which will probably only make the performance worse.
I will give it till the weekend to find some settings that work or its going back.
 
I have a really big concern as to why the speed is fluctuating so much on all networks in all my tests. It could start high and just fall off, or start low and continue to slowly climb, or even shoot up to start then fall down quickly then start to climb slowly.  Its really random.
(All speed tests are done in the office upstairs on my MBP 6/7m away from the router).
Note: My house plan is just over 800SqFt, 2 storeys and a new build. (I forgot to add this before).
This new router should be well capable of the job…...
 
I am open for someone to tell me what I am doing wrong, and I will contact the Netgear help team on the side.
 
New Question: Are these assumptions correct:
Newer wifi equipment will work better with my new WiFi6 router
Older equipment will potentially work slower as it can’t handle what’s being checked at it and may have overload problems?
Note: If this is the case it may be worth dropping the speed on the router….
 
New Question: WAN Internet Port setting.
Is it ok to use the standard 1Gbps port if my connection is 300 max?
I may upgrade to the 450Mbs speed shortly. 
I assume as my broadband speed is <500 its fine on the standard port?
 
Right, back to the settings......
I only had these available channels:
GetYourOwn2 = 1-13
GetYourOwn5 = 36-64
GetYourOwn69 = 100-128   (I couldnt change it to 149 as someone suggested)
 
Benchmark from R7000 vs RAX200
R7000 2.4G was10Mbs solid everytime.  vs - RAX200 2.4G Auto - Upto 1200Mbs - Top Speed is about 20Mbs everytime. 
R7000 5G was 270 solid everytime.        vs - RAX200 5G1 Ch44 - Up to 2400Mbs - Top Speed 200Mbs fluctuating, Failed on Ch60.
———— New —————                       vsRAX200 5G2 Ch100 - Up to 4800Mbs - Top Speed 269Mbs fluctuating, usually 200Mbs 
  
2.4G Wireless settings - GET_YOUR_OWN_2 - Ch: Auto - Upto 1200Mbs @ 20Mhz
2.4GHz performance with 20/40 MHz coexistence Checked/unchecked
Speed Was 35Mbs - checked (Starting benchmark out of the box)
Speed now is 15Mbs - Unchecked - Worse 
Speed now is 19Mbs - Unchecked - Worse 
Speed now is 17Mbs - Unchecked - Worse 
Speed now is 16Mbs  - Checked
Setting channel to 11 
Speed now is 9Mbs - Checked
Setting to Chanel 7
Speed now is 18Mbs - Checked
Speed now is 12Mbs
Speed now is 20Mbs
Setting back to Auto Channel    -   (Day2)
Speed now is 20Mbs - Checked  -   Every test is roughly 20Mbs so where has my 35Mbs gone?  
  
5G Wireless Settings - GET_YOUR_OWN_5 - Ch: 44 - Upto 2400Mbs @ 80Mhz —> Upto 2400
Speed was 200Mbs - Now reaches 230Mbs     (Upto 2400)
184Mbs   after some time
Change Channel to 60 - Popup message = You select a DFS channel, channel will be changed automatically if any radar is detected?
208Mbs - Channel 60
205Mbs - Channel 60
This morning the network was non-responsive, my phone didn’t work on it or my laptop.
Changed it back to Ch44.
Speed is now 133Mbs (Started at 210 and just kept dropping.
  
5G Wireless Settings - GET_YOUR_OWN_69 - Ch: 100 - Upto 4800Mbs @ 80Mhz —> Upto 4800
Speed was 280Mbs on Upto 2400   (Day1)
Speed now is 273Mbs - after some time on Upto 4800
Speed now is 158Mbs - on 4800 (It hit 260 and then came down)
Speed now is 283Mbs - Highest ive had, but most tests are about 200Mbs.
Used it all day for work and has been fine, but not using much bandwidth for work.  (Day2)
Speed now is 231Mbs - 
 
The only Good thing.
The good thing is I have had no outages today with the new router. (Except for 5G1 failing on Ch60 this morning).
I was having to reboot upto 5 times a day as the R7000 router stopped working/responding and I lost internet.
 
Again, any help would be really appreciated. 
 
Yours hopefully,
Des.
Message 12 of 23
Razor512
Virtuoso

Re: RAX200 (AX12) weaker & slower than R7000 - (I've lost 70Mbs and WiFi is plop)

Which country was the router purchased from? It seems like you have not tried 80MHz channel width on a non-DFS channel yet. Are you in a region where there is no 80MHz block of spectrum available?

 

Beyond that, when it is sett to up to 4800Mbps then it is using 160MHz channel width which will force the use of DFS even if the primary channel is out of the DFS range.

 

While in smaller homes and close ranges, DFS can work well, there are exceptions such as environments with a high noise floor where having your transmit power cut down to 1/4th power because of DFS can be an issue, as well as environments close to an airport where where they will be constantly flooding the DFS spectrum.

 

If a device was purchased in the US, a good way to rule out such issues is to set the router to the up to 2400Mbps setting, and then have it use channel 149 (in the case f tri-band routers, give the upper band radio a different SSID to ensure that you are using the the selected channel when testing, then seeing if there are any throughput issues.

 

For the 1GbE WAN port, the max real world throughput is around 941Mbps due to overhead.

 

Message 13 of 23
Des73
Aspirant

Re: RAX200 (AX12) weaker & slower than R7000 - (I've lost 70Mbs and WiFi is plop)

Router was purchased in the UK.

Im about 30miles from a small airport in Southampton.

 

I will be honest and say I have no idea about DFS.  (I will have to readup on it next).

The router has still got pretty standard settings apart from the SSIDs.

I do not know what channels are non DFS, I assume the lower ones on 5G (44) as when I changed 5G1 to Ch60 I got the popup about DFS.

When I changed it back to 44 I didnt get a popup?

 

I just stupidly thought that this new router would out perform my old one out of the box without all this nonsense.

Hopefully I will get it sorted and only have to do it once.

 

Cheers,

Des.

 

Message 14 of 23
Des73
Aspirant

Re: RAX200 (AX12) weaker & slower than R7000 - (I've lost 70Mbs and WiFi is plop)

Hi,

 

Ok. DFS channels actually come up in Blue on my scanner.

The higher 5G2 is DFS, The Lower 5G2 is not at present.

 

Does anyone have any other ideas please?   I'm getting desperate before sending it back. 

 

Notes: I am in a 800Sqm new build, detached, 2 storey, 4 bed house.

My old R7000 was swapped out for the RAX200, everything else is the same.

All speed tests are done on my MBP in the same place, an upstairs office/Bedroom 6/7m away from router downstairs.

Firmware Version V1.0.5.126_1.0.65

 

My neighbours 2.4 network is stonger than mine????? This isnt right!

My 5G1 network is just crap - Ive tried different channels, its just poo.

My 5G2 network is as good as my old R7000 not better!  

 

Looks like I have purchased a dual band router for the price of a Triband, which is no better than my 10 year old R7000 wahoo, go me!

 

Im starting to switch all other WiFi equipment on and to be fair there has been no issues.

 

Cheers,

Des.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Message 15 of 23
plemans
Guru

Re: RAX200 (AX12) weaker & slower than R7000 - (I've lost 70Mbs and WiFi is plop)

Have you tried an older firmware? 

Occassionally, newer firmware causes issues. 

You can try downgrading the firmware and testing that. 

Does your MBP have a AX card in it? 

Current Setup: CM2000-> RBK750-> GS716v2-> RAXE500-> Pi-hole->
Message 16 of 23
Razor512
Virtuoso

Re: RAX200 (AX12) weaker & slower than R7000 - (I've lost 70Mbs and WiFi is plop)

In terms of defaults, the RAX200's out of the box performance (assuming you just finished the basic setup wizard, it set up for 802.11ax clients will get around 1.8 to 1.9 Gbps over a 2 stream radio on the 5GHz band (160MHz), and 802.11ac clients will get around 600-700Mbps over a 2 stream radio on the 5GHz band (80MHz).

 

802.11n clients do not get much of a performance boost over what was seen with the enhancements made to 802.11ac routers.

 

On 2.4GHz, iimprvements were seen with 802.11ac and ax class products, 802.11n products remained the same, and 802.11g clients have not had any noticeable improvement in years across any major brand.

 

Is using mixed device setups, the main improvements that you will notice with Netgear, is improved airtime sharing where a mixed setup of 802.11ax, ac, and n devices, will have lless of a performance hit as compared to older routers, thus aggregate throughput remains much higher than used to be possible with mixed use.

 

The performance issues you are facing are certainly not normal, and usially such a large upgrade would offer people a massive performance boost.

Message 17 of 23
psychopomp123
Luminary

Re: RAX200 (AX12) weaker & slower than R7000 - (I've lost 70Mbs and WiFi is plop)

OP, I wonder if you've received a lemon RAX200? I'm also using a RAX200 on a TalkTalk FTTP Fibre 900 line and the RAX200 is the best router I've ever used. I'm getting 800+Mbps over wifi 6 almost anywhere in the home (new-ish double storey) and even wifi 5 clients give me around 600 Mbps. These are the settings I'm using:

 

RAX200_2G: channel 6, up to 1200 Mbps

RAX200_5G1: channel 48, up to 4800 Mbs

RAX200_5G2: channel 157, up to 2400 Mbps

Mu-Mimo ON

Enable OFDMA ON (all)

Enable Beamforming ON

 

Try the above settings.

 

speedtest.JPG

 

RAX200.JPG

Message 18 of 23
Des73
Aspirant

Re: RAX200 (AX12) weaker & slower than R7000 - (I've lost 70Mbs and WiFi is plop)

Hi,
 
Well that didn’t go well, I’ve now lost my higher 5G2 network.
 
I turned on: 
Enables Mu-Mimo  - Was Off
Enable OFDMA ON (all) - Was Off, turned on for all 3 networks.
Enable Beamforming - Was On out of the box
 
I bounced the router after changes.  No improvement and 5G2 gone!
 
I have reversed all settings back and bounced the router.
Still no 5G2 network…..  I wanna cry  lol
 
WTF is wrong with this thing…..
 
Cheers,
Des.
Message 19 of 23
Des73
Aspirant

Re: RAX200 (AX12) weaker & slower than R7000 - (I've lost 70Mbs and WiFi is plop)

ok, after 10mins the 5G2 network is back.

 

I will add the settings one by one and wait 10minutes this time.

I will either find what caused it, or work out that I was being impatient because of my frustration....

 

 

Message 20 of 23
psychopomp123
Luminary

Re: RAX200 (AX12) weaker & slower than R7000 - (I've lost 70Mbs and WiFi is plop)

If you're using a DFS channel (ch. 50-140) then it will take a few minutes for 5G2 become live. This is standard behaviour when using any DFS channel. Btw I suggest using ch. 128 on 5G2 if you don't have ch 149-161 available.

Message 21 of 23
Des73
Aspirant

Re: RAX200 (AX12) weaker & slower than R7000 - (I've lost 70Mbs and WiFi is plop)

Hi,

 
Ok, I made a bunch of changes as previously mentioned and nothing has changed in strength or performance on any network.
 
I dont know what else to try and getting to the end of my patience.
 
If anyone has any other ideas, please let me know.
 
—NEW CONFIG—
2.4G  - GET_YOUR_OWN_2 - Ch: Auto - Upto 1200Mbs @ 20Mhz - Strength = 56%
5G1  - GET_YOUR_OWN_5 - Ch: 48 - Upto 4800Mbs @ 160Mhz - Strength = 50%
5G2  - GET_YOUR_OWN_69 - Ch: 128 - Upto 2400Mbs @ 80Mhz - Strength = 60%
UPnP - Turned Off.  - Was having problems with this on last router R7000
Enable Mu-Mimo - Turned On - New
Enable OFDMA ON (all) - Turned On - New
Enable Beamforming - Turned On  - Out of the box 
Enable AIRTIME FAIRNESS - is Off - Out of the box  - Going to turn this on next.
 
My SONOS is also struggling with what I think is buffering now, just listening to the radio today after turning it on and the music keeps speeding up, cutting out and stopping.  
SONOS has always been rock solid on a previous virgin router and on my old R7000.
 
I will start using my NAS drive tomorrow and see how that works…..
 
Notes:
Im starting to think I am not going to get better performance than my old R7000, but I am hoping it can handle a more devices better.
Most of my equipment is old, I dont think I have anything with ax tech in it. I am wondering if this is a problem? 
Its been mentioned that old equipment could be overloaded.
I will also try some tests closer to the router tomorrow to see if anything improves.
 
Cheers,
Des.
Message 22 of 23
psychopomp123
Luminary

Re: RAX200 (AX12) weaker & slower than R7000 - (I've lost 70Mbs and WiFi is plop)

Probably a silly question, but have you correctly fitted the 'wing' antennas? From the folding position, you push out the antennas and then push them down gently until they click into place.

 

Can I ask if your RAX200 is out in the open and not in an enclosed space such as a cupboard or utility space? Even the best router in the world will perform poorly if its signals aren't being properly propagated.

 

As a last resort, I suggest returning the RAX200 for a replacement as you may well have received a dud - if bought via Amazon then it should be very easy to do. Whilst the R7000 is/was a great router in its heyday, the RAX200 should blow this away for speeds, even on older wifi 5 clients.

Message 23 of 23
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