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Re: RAX200: poor WIFI performance

lowrisk
Tutor

RAX200: poor WIFI performance

not sure why my primary post was deleted...
 
I bought the RAX200 thinking I would have nice perf with my iPhone 11 Pro max and my iPhone 11, although I managed to get 800Mbps max maybe one time, but most of the time I'm getting around 300Mbps... For reference, I'm getting around 600 when I'm using my other router (Synology AC1900, Fritz!Box...)
Also, I'm leaving in the middle of nowhere so I'm lucky enough to get low wifi noise (don't get any house nearby, a forest one side, a field the another)
I'm a bit disappointed to see that 160Mhz is missing on the RAX200.
I attached a picture of my settings but I'm a bit desperate with the results
For information, I'm using the RAX at AP mode, connected behind a Ubiquiti EdgeSwitch 10XP which is behind an EdgeRouter 12.
The RAX is on the leaving room, I have a another AP in the hall and one another on the kitchen 14meters away (45 foot?) I'm getting around 935Mbps from the switch connected to a computer
WiFi Settings :
SSID around :
I contacted Netgear support, but the only thing they want is call (somehow mail support is just to redirect to the phone line...) and the only option they gave was to ... change the channels...
Model: RAX200|Nighthawk Tri-band AX12 12-Stream Wi-Fi 6 Router
Message 1 of 16

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plemans
Guru

Re: RAX200: poor WIFI performance


@lowrisk wrote:

I know that 2.4Ghz is restricted just saying it's not bad result for 2.4Ghz---You're right. Its a good result for 2.4ghz. I'm a little jealous. 
 
But I can't believe that a 802.11ax is getting worst performance than a old 802.11ac router, that's make no sense for me.--If you're getting 590-700mbps and so is your other gear, its doing what it should. If you had a 3x3 or 4x4 antenna ax device (I don't know of any made other than routers), your speeds would be faster. Or even a 2x2 that supports 160hz wide channels. (which the iphone doesn't). Here's how it works: 4800mbps= 160 hz and 4x4 antenna. Iphone has only 80 hz support so max connection would be 2400mbps IF it had a 4x4 antenna. with a 2x2 antenna, max connection would be 1200mbps. Wireless AC was fairly refined by the time wireless AX came out so they were getting the best out of them because it'd been optimized through several generations. Wireless AX is first generation and just passed certification 1-2 months ago. I expect optimizations from both the router and wireless manufacturers. 
 
I actually don't know what the settings (channels wide) for 5Ghz 
as you can see on the screenshot, 2.4Ghz I have a option "Enable 20/40 Mhz coexistence" but no other option and nothing at all for 5Ghz---Thats correct for the 2.4ghz. The 5ghz channel width is set by the "up to ***** speed. 20hz=600, 40hz=1200, 80hz=2400, 160hz=4800)
 
I found some screenshot online but my web interface since different, for example in "Mode" it won't actually tell me the mode but just "up to 4800Mbps for the first 5Ghz channels and 2400Mbps" for the second (not sure why they are different value by the way, can both 5Ghz channels work in the same mode? Not sure why you can't set the 2nd 5ghz radio for 4800mbps. I have the rax200 and I can set it for 4800mbps. It does require the use of dfs frequencies to allow. What region are you set in? Some don't allow dfs frequencies. Have you tried setting it up? I think its default is 2400mbps for the 2nd band. 

PS , thanks for the articles, quiet interesting, didnt have time to read all but will definitily read that today


 

CM2000-> RAXE500-> GS716v2-> WAX218-> EX8000

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Message 11 of 16

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plemans
Guru

Re: RAX200: poor WIFI performance

The iphone 11 supports AX however it only supports AX in 80hz. Not 160hz.

And how you tell with the RAX your 20/40/80/160hz is by the  mode. If you have it set to 4800mbps mode, you're in 160hz setup. 

A couple things you can check is when you're using 160hz wide bandwidth, your overlap is a lot more than 20/40/80hz. By looking at your wireless spectrum scan, 3x of your 5ghz channels are overlapping. When you're running 160 hz, you're running on channels 36-64. Its something you have to keep in mind. You might have selected channel 44 but that channel's going to overlap quite a few other channels with 160 hz. I'll link to a site that shows overlap. 

https://www.maketecheasier.com/best-wifi-channel-for-5ghz-frequency/

Are you using smart connect? if so, you're router might have moved you to a different band that might not be as fast. To truly test your wireless, shut off your other AP's, turn off smart connect, and setup individual SSID's for each band. Then you can speed test each band/channel. This will give you the best speed results and allow you to optimize your RAX200.  

 

CM2000-> RAXE500-> GS716v2-> WAX218-> EX8000
Message 2 of 16
lowrisk
Tutor

Re: RAX200: poor WIFI performance

I don't use smartconnect, I'm not a big fan of letting the client, especialy mobil devices, chosing the "faster" band.

I made a screenrecording of the speed test (while the other AP was turning off, eventhough the WIFI noise is low, we never know)

 

both 5Ghz SSID have bad perf, I'm getting more from normal ac AP.

 

iPhone 11 Pro Max

https://youtu.be/EqnT-7nYJXs

 

MacBookPro15,1 (WiFi ac)

https://youtu.be/75WclzOJDa0

 

on the second video, it's intereseting to see that I have bad perf on the RAX200 Ethernet port, but doing the test twices after, I'm getting a decent speed (WiFi speed are very bad though)

Model: RAX200|Nighthawk Tri-band AX12 12-Stream Wi-Fi 6 Router
Message 3 of 16
plemans
Guru

Re: RAX200: poor WIFI performance

Another thing to try is multiple websites. I've had speedtest.net not max out my gigabit connection over a hardwired line. A lot depends on the server its connecting to. 

I usually use speedtest.xfinity.com   or speedtest.googlefiber.net as they've both reliably maxed out my connection. 

 

 

CM2000-> RAXE500-> GS716v2-> WAX218-> EX8000
Message 4 of 16
lowrisk
Tutor

Re: RAX200: poor WIFI performance

I tried with googlefiber but only get 
258 Mbps Down / 85.3 Mbps UP

Probably because they don't have a desktop app and also because I'm in Europe and they server is probably in the US.
But anyway, a part of the first test (just when I pluged the ethernet) all the ethernet result are over 900Mbps so don't think there is an issue in this way

Message 5 of 16
plemans
Guru

Re: RAX200: poor WIFI performance

What I'd try? Removing most of your other gear to see if thats whats causing the issue. 

Go modem-RAX200 in router mode. 

Its tough to troubleshoot with the RAX200 in AP mode as it isn't doing any filtering/router. its all your other gear (edgeswitch/edgerouter). 

CM2000-> RAXE500-> GS716v2-> WAX218-> EX8000
Message 6 of 16
lowrisk
Tutor

Re: RAX200: poor WIFI performance

So I restore to factory, setup as a router this time,

Got around 400 with both 5Ghz channel, then enabling MU-MIMO, got 700Mbps for the first test and then 590 which is what I'm getting with my other WiFi AC APs 


PS: my iPhone 11 Pro Max being the only device connected (I changed the BSSID just to make sure) 

Message 7 of 16
lowrisk
Tutor

Re: RAX200: poor WIFI performance

I having mix results also 2.4Ghz  :99.8 down / 82.6 up 

Message 8 of 16
plemans
Guru

Re: RAX200: poor WIFI performance

2.4ghz isn't going to give you near the speed that 5ghz will. I've got a RAX200 connected to a Intel ax200 card and struggle to get 80mbps. I've tried it with another manufacturer's ax solution as well and hit the same speeds. In real world usage, 2.4ghz doesn't give you much more. 

in terms of 5ghz speeds, there wasn't much of a speed benefit from AC to AX if you're using 160hz wide channels for both routers. There was some speed increase but the major benefits came from concurrent usage. And if the iphone is limited to 80hz channel width with a 2x2 antenna, you're not going to see much of a speed increase. 

I recommend reading through these articles. The first is a review of 5 of the current AX router. This is from smallnetbuilder. Its pretty accurate in the test results but keep in mind, the testing is done under ideal conditions. It does go over the testing methodology, the devices, and whats being tested. the 2nd article is some basics on AX devices. 

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-reviews/33220-wi-fi-6-performance-roundup-five-rou...

 

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-features/33209-5-things-to-know-before-you-buy-a-d...

CM2000-> RAXE500-> GS716v2-> WAX218-> EX8000
Message 9 of 16
lowrisk
Tutor

Re: RAX200: poor WIFI performance

I know that 2.4Ghz is restricted just saying it's not bad result for 2.4Ghz
 
But I can't believe that a 802.11ax is getting worst performance than a old 802.11ac router, that's make no sense for me.
 
I actually don't know what the settings (channels wide) for 5Ghz 
as you can see on the screenshot, 2.4Ghz I have a option "Enable 20/40 Mhz coexistence" but no other option and nothing at all for 5Ghz
 
I found some screenshot online but my web interface since different, for example in "Mode" it won't actually tell me the mode but just "up to 4800Mbps for the first 5Ghz channels and 2400Mbps" for the second (not sure why they are different value by the way, can both 5Ghz channels work in the same mode?

PS , thanks for the articles, quiet interesting, didnt have time to read all but will definitily read that today

Message 10 of 16
plemans
Guru

Re: RAX200: poor WIFI performance


@lowrisk wrote:

I know that 2.4Ghz is restricted just saying it's not bad result for 2.4Ghz---You're right. Its a good result for 2.4ghz. I'm a little jealous. 
 
But I can't believe that a 802.11ax is getting worst performance than a old 802.11ac router, that's make no sense for me.--If you're getting 590-700mbps and so is your other gear, its doing what it should. If you had a 3x3 or 4x4 antenna ax device (I don't know of any made other than routers), your speeds would be faster. Or even a 2x2 that supports 160hz wide channels. (which the iphone doesn't). Here's how it works: 4800mbps= 160 hz and 4x4 antenna. Iphone has only 80 hz support so max connection would be 2400mbps IF it had a 4x4 antenna. with a 2x2 antenna, max connection would be 1200mbps. Wireless AC was fairly refined by the time wireless AX came out so they were getting the best out of them because it'd been optimized through several generations. Wireless AX is first generation and just passed certification 1-2 months ago. I expect optimizations from both the router and wireless manufacturers. 
 
I actually don't know what the settings (channels wide) for 5Ghz 
as you can see on the screenshot, 2.4Ghz I have a option "Enable 20/40 Mhz coexistence" but no other option and nothing at all for 5Ghz---Thats correct for the 2.4ghz. The 5ghz channel width is set by the "up to ***** speed. 20hz=600, 40hz=1200, 80hz=2400, 160hz=4800)
 
I found some screenshot online but my web interface since different, for example in "Mode" it won't actually tell me the mode but just "up to 4800Mbps for the first 5Ghz channels and 2400Mbps" for the second (not sure why they are different value by the way, can both 5Ghz channels work in the same mode? Not sure why you can't set the 2nd 5ghz radio for 4800mbps. I have the rax200 and I can set it for 4800mbps. It does require the use of dfs frequencies to allow. What region are you set in? Some don't allow dfs frequencies. Have you tried setting it up? I think its default is 2400mbps for the 2nd band. 

PS , thanks for the articles, quiet interesting, didnt have time to read all but will definitily read that today


 

CM2000-> RAXE500-> GS716v2-> WAX218-> EX8000

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Message 11 of 16
lowrisk
Tutor

Re: RAX200: poor WIFI performance

Last quick question and I'm probably saying something stupid, but why I can't see any 80Mhz channel but only 20MHz whatever mode I use 

e.g 100,104,108,112,116,120,124,128 from what I remeber they are 20 Mhz channels no? 

Message 12 of 16
lowrisk
Tutor

Re: RAX200: poor WIFI performance

nevermind that was very dumb question actually.

Message 13 of 16
Altsai
NETGEAR Expert

Re: RAX200: poor WIFI performance


@lowrisk wrote:

Last quick question and I'm probably saying something stupid, but why I can't see any 80Mhz channel but only 20MHz whatever mode I use 

e.g 100,104,108,112,116,120,124,128 from what I remeber they are 20 Mhz channels no? 


this is what webGUI current design.

 

all these shown are 20Mhz band which will be used for when your devices can only support 20MHz band (legacy devices) or backward compatible channel when you're away from RAX200.

Message 14 of 16
lowrisk
Tutor

Re: RAX200: poor WIFI performance

But I don't get it why I only have this channel avalible, my MacBook Pro / my iPhone, and other clients are able to handle 80Mhz 


@Altsai wrote:

@lowrisk wrote:

Last quick question and I'm probably saying something stupid, but why I can't see any 80Mhz channel but only 20MHz whatever mode I use 

e.g 100,104,108,112,116,120,124,128 from what I remeber they are 20 Mhz channels no? 


this is what webGUI current design.

 

all these shown are 20Mhz band which will be used for when your devices can only support 20MHz band (legacy devices) or backward compatible channel when you're away from RAX200.


 

Message 15 of 16
plemans
Guru

Re: RAX200: poor WIFI performance

160hz channels needs to use dfs channels. which is the 50-144 channels. You  might select channel 100 but it has overlap. 

CM2000-> RAXE500-> GS716v2-> WAX218-> EX8000
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