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Re: Netgear R9000 how long to to backup using ReadyShare Vault? It's been running for >20 hours!

WGJOC
Tutor

Netger R9000 how long to to backup using ReadyShare Vault? It's been running for >20 hours!

I am trying the ReadyShare Vault backup routine on my new NetGear R9000 and just wondered if it should be expected for this to take a LONG time - this is the first backup?

 

I set it running around lunchtime yesterday using the backup routine and set a password for access.  It is now about 8am the next day (best part of 20 hours later) and it is still only showing about 55% complete.

 

I guess it's possibly backing up somewhere approaching 1TB of data.  The computer it is backing up from is attached via a Cat5 cable to the R9000 and there is a new Seagate drive running which is attached to the router via one of the USB3 ports as per the instructions.  If it is going to take over a day to do a backup each time this might not be of much use as the system will be constantly backing up and I might as well go back to my straight copy of all my data to my old Western Digital drive which used to take <30 minutes.

 

Can anyone offer some advice please?

 

I'd like to know if this sort of time duration is normal - it is already running the (supposedly) faster routine taking more system resources. 

 

It is the first ever backup and obviously it is writing the data all for the first time.  However, I'd like to know if this sounds normal behaviour and if subsequent back-ups are quicker i.e. is it one of these systems where subsequent backups only change files that have been changed since the last time? 

Model: R9000|Nighthawk X10 AD7200 Smart WiFi Router
Message 1 of 16

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antinode
Guru

Re: Netgear R9000 how long to to backup using ReadyShare Vault? It's been running for >20 hours!

> I guess it's possibly backing up somewhere approaching 1TB of data.
> [...]

 

   That's not a small amount.

 

> [...] I'd like to know if this sort of time duration is normal [...]

 

   It may be.  You need to consider that you're dealing with the actual
source storage device and the backup software on the Windows system, the
network hardware, the file sharing software running on the
(sub-amazing?) CPU in the router, the USB interface speed, and the
actual destination storage device attached to the router. Many of those
considerations vanish with a destination storage device which is
directly connected to the source system. Without a much more detailed
analysis, I would not bet that the router's USB interface is your
bottleneck.

 

> [...] and if subsequent back-ups are quicker i.e. is it one of these
> systems where subsequent backups only change files that have been
> changed since the last time?


   Almost certainly.

 

> [...] NAS [...]

 

   I also wouldn't bet that a "true" NAS system would greatly improve
your times.  My NAS experience is limited to small Seagate devices
(NAS 220, and similar -- SATA disks, gigabit Ethernet), and I haven't
done any large transfers to one lately, but I've spent at least a whole
day waiting for an initial (Mac Time Machine) backup (smaller than 1TB)
to finish.  Running the experiment would be much more reliable than any
advice you're likely to get here.

 

   I _would_ expect a real NAS gizmo to suffer from fewer firmware bugs
than the slapped-together mess of freeware which you'll find for file
sharing on a Netgear router.  However, the primary advantage of a real
NAS gizmo is RAID.  When your single USB-connected disk fails, you
typically lose all the data on it.  When a disk fails in a RAID system,
you don't.

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Message 11 of 16

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WGJOC
Tutor

Re: Netgear R9000 how long to to backup using ReadyShare Vault? It's been running for >20 hours!

It's now up to 24 hours running and still only 68% completed!!!

Model: R9000|Nighthawk X10 AD7200 Smart WiFi Router
Message 2 of 16

Re: Netgear R9000 how long to to backup using ReadyShare Vault? It's been running for >20 hours!

Greetings,

You've just learned a valuable lesson.  Backing up to USB is the problem.  Thats your bottleneck and weak link.  Consider another destination like true network attached storage (not network attached USB) and you will be much happier with the results.     

Message 3 of 16
WGJOC
Tutor

Re: Netgear R9000 how long to to backup using ReadyShare Vault? It's been running for >20 hours!

Hi @shadowsports many thanks for that - at least my system is not behaving unexpectedly. 

 

However, it begs the question as to why Netgear advocate attaching a diskdrive via USB3 to act in a back-up capacity then supply software that appears to be designed for the task when such a system, would appear from your comments and my experience, to not be efficient.

 

Perhaps I'll let it complete this time and see where it leaves me, but if it is going to take that long each time it is needed then I think I'll try to sort out another solution.  You mention 'true Network Attached Storage'  is that these so called NAS drives?  Please bear with me -  I am on a steep learning curve here - so 'Network attached' does this imply that these are drives hard wired into the network via the router Cat 5 ports or similar ports in an extension box via something like a Cat 5 ethernet cable?  I've looked online and found NAS drives listed, but some of these still seem to suggest a USB3 connection where you suggest that USB is the problem. 

Would I get a partial solution if the PC I am backing up had a USB3 connection like the R9000 has?  Is this something that I could install if the machine motherboard had a spare slot?  Would it help, or do I really need this network connection to a drive (presumably through that cat5 ethernet cable I mentioned above)?

Message 4 of 16
myersw
Master

Re: Netgear R9000 how long to to backup using ReadyShare Vault? It's been running for >20 hours!

NAS stands for Network Attached Storage. It is a device that connects, normally via Ethernet to your network created by your router. Normally connected to one of the Ethernet ports on your router. It appears as another storage device in Windows File Finder. You may need to do a google search as to how, if you do not know how to connect to a network drive. 

Message 5 of 16

Re: Netgear R9000 how long to to backup using ReadyShare Vault? It's been running for >20 hours!

They claim print server capability as well...  its just a bunch of marketing BS.

 

What would be better.  If Netgear would develop and sell routers with FW that actually works.  I'll leave it at that.

 

  

Message 6 of 16
myersw
Master

Re: Netgear R9000 how long to to backup using ReadyShare Vault? It's been running for >20 hours!


@shadowsports wrote:

They claim print server capability as well...  its just a bunch of marketing BS.

 

What would be better.  If Netgear would develop and sell routers with FW that actually works.  I'll leave it at that.

 

  


Oh what a wonderful idea. Develop firmware that works. Netgear right now seems to be adhering to the old saying, "a ship without a rudder". 

 

Yes I agree with the marketing BS. IMHO, routers are meant to route and provide network connections either wired or wireless. The tacking on of things like USB support for file drives and printing just does not work properly and in my experience, both with NG and other vendors never has. Most printers today don't even need to be attached to router, connect wirelessly. In the case of my Epson printer, wireless connection just works. 

Message 7 of 16
WGJOC
Tutor

Re: Netgear R9000 how long to to backup using ReadyShare Vault? It's been running for >20 hours!

I sense I have struck a deep nerve, which is rather a shame as I bought Netgear in the belief that as far as routers went they were the dogs proverbials - or at least that's what I was told.  I must admit that I'd been trying to avoid a NAS system as someone once told me they were quite costly to run from an electricty standpoint.  I wanted a media server having been completely misled and had a lot of time wasted by Amazon music who then deleted all my personal music anyway after claiming they wouldn't.  Due to the costs involved in running a NAS I set up a Raspberry Pi Plex server with my Seagate drive and did have all that up and running well including integration with an Amazon Echo system that someone gifted me.  Then I recently got the Nighthawk X10 and when I saw it included the ability to run the Plex server and I would not need to plug in the additional RPi or powered USB hub I installed the Plex system and transferred over to the Nighthawk for Plex server functionality.  Trying the USB Nighthawk router backup on a second USB plugged drive just seemed to me the natural progression and it's rather disappointing to find how much system resource its taking.  I am letting it complete as I type its up to 96% - yes it is taking days!  and hoping that it just then just logs file changes into the future and that might take less time.   I do really need a reliable back-up system in-house as I don't trust the security of a 'cloud' based system and I guess if push comes to shove I might have to consider one of these true NAS systems, but I've been looking at them online this morning - don't they take up a lot of space - almost as much as my desktop tower box computer?  I'm looking at my tiny 4"x5" Seagate drive and thinking 'if only!'

Model: R9000|Nighthawk X10 AD7200 Smart WiFi Router
Message 8 of 16

Re: Netgear R9000 how long to to backup using ReadyShare Vault? It's been running for >20 hours!

Netgear is a great company with some of the best hardware available.  Where they have fallen short is in the FW thats runs on this hardware.

 

Forget the marketing hype.  I'm referring to overall stability and function.  My R8000P for example.  Haven't seen a FW update since Oct of last year.

 

Is my router stable, yes. (100%)  Unfortuantely however, several of its "features" do not work as intended. These are not new enhancements, these are mature long term functions that have been broken, ignored and remain unfixed.  This is not exclusive to Netgear.  Visit the communities af other router manufacturers and you'll see the same thing.

 

What we aren't seeing is an "active" effort to fix or resolve undesired behaviors.  It wasn't always like this.  I started using Netgear products in 2004.  I've used the best of them (Asus, Linksys, TPLink), and in my opinion, Netgear has the best track record (my experience anyway).  But we are just seeing build after build with no significant improvements or bug fixes. 

 

Sure you get a security enhancement from time to time, but then you can't edit your list of attached device, or your ACL list.  On mine, I actually have to select the device above the entry I actually want to edit.  Almost comical, but here we are 3, 4, 6 FW interations later and its still broken.  That is what's hard to swallow.  But you have to be willing to look at the big picture as well. 

 

   

Message 9 of 16
myersw
Master

Re: Netgear R9000 how long to to backup using ReadyShare Vault? It's been running for >20 hours!


@shadowsports wrote:

Netgear is a great company with some of the best hardware available.  Where they have fallen short is in the FW that's runs on this hardware.

 

Forget the marketing hype.  I'm referring to overall stability and function.  My R8000P for example.  Haven't seen a FW update since Oct of last year.

 

It's a shame that you need to run old firmware to get a stable router, and then some features if needed do not work. I do agree with your hardware statement. They probably are putting out the best, hardware wise, but the firmware is like you gave the code to a beginning coder to fix/write. Before comments, I have written Assembler, C and Basic code. I also agree that you could basically do a cut and paste from one manufacturer's forum to another from a problem standpoint. Asus does not even provide a forum for the non ROG users the last time I checked, so guess unless you buy a gaming router from them they don't care. In my over all experience I have had Asus, Netgear and Linksys. Never thought that I would say this, but if I were to go with a consumer grade router right now I would get Linksys. Netgear seems to want to stick on Disney Circle and Bitdefender Armor without getting the basics working correctly. Then add on things like USB and printer support and you have a mess that I do not want to go near. I have this picture in my head of a router with Velcro on it and then these feature boxes that are Velcro attached rather then being integrated.  Netgear was my go to vendor for years, but not anymore. Have been involved with wireless networks either at work or home since 1999 when B was king. 😉 First home router was a Linksys WRT54G. 

 

Another issue I have with Netgear is their pushing folks to the Apple/Android apps. Fine if that is the only way a purchaser can communicate with the router, which also seems to have lots of problems. So simple to just use a browser and connect to the router directly rather then the app if browser is available. See folks creating 'bricks' trying to do firmware updates through the apps. Just not the right way to provide a good experience to the new purchaser. Buy bring home and following instructions, turn into something that needs tftp and I do not even have a PC/MAC to do that so return to store. What garbage. 

 

If I had to do weird things to select a device in the UI I would not consider that as satisfactory, especially when this is an ongoing issue. Netgear currently seems to have lots of unresolved firmware issues that they do not seem to be able/willing to correct. 

 

Message 10 of 16
antinode
Guru

Re: Netgear R9000 how long to to backup using ReadyShare Vault? It's been running for >20 hours!

> I guess it's possibly backing up somewhere approaching 1TB of data.
> [...]

 

   That's not a small amount.

 

> [...] I'd like to know if this sort of time duration is normal [...]

 

   It may be.  You need to consider that you're dealing with the actual
source storage device and the backup software on the Windows system, the
network hardware, the file sharing software running on the
(sub-amazing?) CPU in the router, the USB interface speed, and the
actual destination storage device attached to the router. Many of those
considerations vanish with a destination storage device which is
directly connected to the source system. Without a much more detailed
analysis, I would not bet that the router's USB interface is your
bottleneck.

 

> [...] and if subsequent back-ups are quicker i.e. is it one of these
> systems where subsequent backups only change files that have been
> changed since the last time?


   Almost certainly.

 

> [...] NAS [...]

 

   I also wouldn't bet that a "true" NAS system would greatly improve
your times.  My NAS experience is limited to small Seagate devices
(NAS 220, and similar -- SATA disks, gigabit Ethernet), and I haven't
done any large transfers to one lately, but I've spent at least a whole
day waiting for an initial (Mac Time Machine) backup (smaller than 1TB)
to finish.  Running the experiment would be much more reliable than any
advice you're likely to get here.

 

   I _would_ expect a real NAS gizmo to suffer from fewer firmware bugs
than the slapped-together mess of freeware which you'll find for file
sharing on a Netgear router.  However, the primary advantage of a real
NAS gizmo is RAID.  When your single USB-connected disk fails, you
typically lose all the data on it.  When a disk fails in a RAID system,
you don't.

Message 11 of 16
myersw
Master

Re: Netgear R9000 how long to to backup using ReadyShare Vault? It's been running for >20 hours!

I get good file transfers with my Synology NAS. Also like the safety of mirrored drives which you do not have with USB on a router. You really should try a true NAS sometime. 

 

Message 12 of 16
antinode
Guru

Re: Netgear R9000 how long to to backup using ReadyShare Vault? It's been running for >20 hours!

> I get good file transfers with my Synology NAS. [...]

 

   As I suggested above, backup involves more than "file transfers".

 

> [...] You really should [...]

 

   _Who_ "really should"?  This isn't a private message service.

Message 13 of 16
myersw
Master

Re: Netgear R9000 how long to to backup using ReadyShare Vault? It's been running for >20 hours!


@antinode wrote:

> I get good file transfers with my Synology NAS. [...]

 

   As I suggested above, backup involves more than "file transfers".

 

> [...] You really should [...]

 

   _Who_ "really should"?  This isn't a private message service.


Have done backups as well. Works better then anything you will get via a router USB solution. NAS is built for backups/file transfers. Routers this is an after thought. 

Message 14 of 16

Re: Netgear R9000 how long to to backup using ReadyShare Vault? It's been running for >20 hours!

And I like my 2 QNAPs.

 

Synology and QNAP both make great NAS devices

Message 15 of 16
myersw
Master

Re: Netgear R9000 how long to to backup using ReadyShare Vault? It's been running for >20 hours!


@shadowsports wrote:

And I like my 2 QNAPs.

 

Synology and QNAP both make great NAS devices


Yup my Synology just runs. No issues of any kind. 

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