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Re: MR80 MS80 backhaul dying, incredibly slow speeds on satellites

basicfacekick
Aspirant

MR80 MS80 backhaul dying, incredibly slow speeds on satellites

We have the MR80/MS80 Nighthawk Mesh system.

 

Since purchasing we've seen issues where laptops or devices connected to a satellite will suddenly see plummeting speeds. Normally we get minimum 300+ Mbps on a speedtest from a laptop that's connected to a satellite. When this issue happens, it drops down to about 5 Mbps. Yeah that's like DSL speed.

 

Restarting the system resolves it. Temporarily. Then it comes back. Today I got fed up and called Netgear support before my 90 day support ran out.

 

They had me download a firmware update for the satellites and routers that wasn't showing on the "check for updates" on the router config pages, but it was on their website under device support. All good. I honestly thought this would help. They also changed my 2.4Ghz channel to 11 (it was Auto) and my 5Ghz channel to 48 (it was 44). This all involved a reboot of each device. When they came up again speeds were good.

 

We went out for a few hours to do groceries. We came back and the satellites speed has tanked again. Even a PC I have wired to a satellite is getting the lousy speed, so it isn't a wifi adapter on a laptop issue. It's something between the satellites and the base station... the backhaul? The only connection that is speedy is wifi to the actual MR80 router.

 

I'm calling Netgear back tomorrow. They got me for that extended support deal. I'm going to get my money's worth on it because I've had it with this system.

 

ANY thoughts??

Message 1 of 15

Re: MR80 MS80 backhaul dying, incredibly slow speeds on satellites

Usual basic boilerplate questions, what firmware version do you have on the device?

A number is more useful than "the latest". (It may not be by the time people read this.) There can also be newer versions, or "hot fixes", that do not show up if you check for new firmware in the browser interface.

It might also help if you told people what the modem is in front of this router, if there is one. The make and model number could be useful. Is it, by any chance, also a router, with a set of LAN ports on the back?

The reason for asking is that a lot of people turn up here trying to put a router behind a modem that is also a router. That can complicate troubleshooting.

Message 2 of 15
basicfacekick
Aspirant

Re: MR80 MS80 backhaul dying, incredibly slow speeds on satellites

Hi there. Firmware is V1.1.7.14_3.1.109 on the router and satellites. This wasn't a firmware available in the Check for Updates part of the configuration page, the Netgear tech had me go and pull this from the Netgear support site.

 

The Netgear is behind an Arris BGW210-700 from AT&T fiber. Both 2.4 and 5ghz wireless radios on the Arris are disabled. Yes this is also a router i.e. it has LAN ports on the back of it, its own wireless capability etc.

Message 3 of 15
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: MR80 MS80 backhaul dying, incredibly slow speeds on satellites

Be sure your using a good quality LAN cable between the modem and router. CAT6 is recommended. 

 

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and 📡 satellite(s)? 30 feet or more is recommended in between MR📡 and MS🛰️ to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected.
https://kb.netgear.com/000061709/Where-should-I-place-the-Mesh-WiFi-satellite-of-my-Nighthawk-Mesh-W... 📡

 

What channel configurations are currently set on the router? 

 

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Smart Parental Controls or Circle, Traffic Meter.

 

Your ISP Modem already has a built in router and wifi. This would be a double NAT (two router) condition which isn't recommended. This would be a double NAT condition which isn't recommended. https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT
https://kb.netgear.com/30187/How-to-fix-issues-with-Double-NAT
Couple of options,
1. Configure the modem for transparent bridge or modem only mode. Then use the NG router in router mode. You'll need to contact the ISP for help and information in regards to the modem being bridged correctly.
2. If you can't bridge the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, configure the modems DMZ/ExposedHost or IP Pass-Through for the IP address the NG router gets from the modem. https://kb.netgear.com/25891/DMZ-on-NETGEAR-routers
https://kb.netgear.com/24086/How-do-I-set-up-a-default-DMZ-server-on-my-Nighthawk-router
3. Or disable all wifi radios on the modem and connect the NG router to the modem, LAN to LAN configure AP mode on the NG router.
https://kb.netgear.com/20927/How-do-I-change-my-NETGEAR-router-to-AP-mode

Try option #2 first...

 

Has a power off for 1 minute then back ON with the ISP modem and router been performed since last update?
Be sure to restart your network in this sequence:
Turn off and unplug modem.
Turn off router and computers.
Plug in and turn on modem. Wait 2 minutes for it to connect.
Turn on the router and wait 2 minutes for it to connect.
Turn on computers and rest of network.


@basicfacekick wrote:

Hi there. Firmware is V1.1.7.14_3.1.109 on the router and satellites. This wasn't a firmware available in the Check for Updates part of the configuration page, the Netgear tech had me go and pull this from the Netgear support site.

 

The Netgear is behind an Arris BGW210-700 from AT&T fiber. Both 2.4 and 5ghz wireless radios on the Arris are disabled. Yes this is also a router i.e. it has LAN ports on the back of it, its own wireless capability etc.


 

Message 4 of 15

Re: MR80 MS80 backhaul dying, incredibly slow speeds on satellites


@basicfacekick wrote:

 

The Netgear is behind an Arris BGW210-700 from AT&T fiber. Both 2.4 and 5ghz wireless radios on the Arris are disabled. Yes this is also a router i.e. it has LAN ports on the back of it, its own wireless capability etc.


Turning off the wifi on the Arris  does not disable the router section. So you have piled router on router.

 

Two routers on your network can cause headaches. For example, you can end up with local address problems. Among other things, the other router can misdirect addresses that the Netgear router usually handles, such as routerlogin.net or the usual IP address for a router, 192.168.1.1.

This explains some of the other drawbacks.

What is Double NAT? | Answer | NETGEAR Support

It may be possible to put the modem/router into modem only (bridge) mode and then to use the second device as the router.

arris bgw210-700 bridge mode - Google Search

 

Sometimes it is easier to put the second router into AP mode. Netgear advises this, as does just about every site you will visit.

But that has its own drawbacks:

Disabled Features on the Router when set to AP Mode | Answer | NETGEAR Support

Message 5 of 15
basicfacekick
Aspirant

Re: MR80 MS80 backhaul dying, incredibly slow speeds on satellites

Thanks all.

 

I think I'll try putting the Nighthawk into AP mode first. 

 

The Arris modem has a IP Passthrough but apparently not a true bridge mode. Maybe I'll be brave and try that first... not sure.

 

Honestly I'm not aware of any residential ISP that doesn't give you a router, so I'm surprised that Netgear wouldn't play well in this situation out of the box or at least shout very loudly about putting your ISP router into bridge/whatever mode. Most consumer-grade hand-offs from ISPs aren't dumb devices, they try to do ... well, everything, wifi, content filtering, etc. etc., but anyone buying a Mesh network clearly wants more coverage than their ISP provides.

Message 6 of 15
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: MR80 MS80 backhaul dying, incredibly slow speeds on satellites

IP Passthrough is same or and DMZ. Just passed everything thru to the IP address configured here. If the MR was in router mode, using the IP Pass thru will help with having a double NAT condition if you use the IP Pass thru feature. If you configured AP mode on the MR, then don't use the IP Pass thru feature. 

Message 7 of 15

Re: MR80 MS80 backhaul dying, incredibly slow speeds on satellites



@basicfacekick wrote:

Thanks all.

 

I think I'll try putting the Nighthawk into AP mode first. 

 

The Arris modem has a IP Passthrough but apparently not a true bridge mode. Maybe I'll be brave and try that first... not sure.

From comments here, AT&T seems to go out of its way to prevent users from bridging the hardware it provides.

 

AP mode would be the easiest, unless you wanted to use some of the fancy features that die in that mode. If it is just better wifi coverage, then AP mode should be fine.

 


Honestly I'm not aware of any residential ISP that doesn't give you a router, so I'm surprised that Netgear wouldn't play well in this situation out of the box or at least shout very loudly about putting your ISP router into bridge/whatever mode.


It probably depends where you are. From what I read here that is not true for many cable networks. Many users report receiving a basic cable modem. Often these are rented from the ISP, so users like to buy their own kit and save the rental fee. That's why there are so many simple modems on offer from Netgear and other brands.

 

May ISPs do inflict modem/routers on people, unless you are in genuine cable (as in fibre to the home) territory, when you may well get an optical network termination (ONT) that has a simple LAN output. As the technology spreads, we can expec6 to see more ONTs out there.

 

But some ISPs, apart from BT in the UK and AT&T, will supply modem/routers that do have a genuine bridge mode. But at least I can use BT without using its modem/router.

 

 

Message 8 of 15
basicfacekick
Aspirant

Re: MR80 MS80 backhaul dying, incredibly slow speeds on satellites

I've put the Arris AT&T router into Passthrough mode. As it was coming back up what I saw was a bit worrying, but it seems to have sorted itself. Everything came back OK.

 

I'll run like this and see what happens. Given the issue previously it shouldn't take too long for it to rear its ugly head if it chooses to.

 

Thanks all.

Message 9 of 15
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: MR80 MS80 backhaul dying, incredibly slow speeds on satellites

Let us know. 

Message 10 of 15

Re: MR80 MS80 backhaul dying, incredibly slow speeds on satellites


@basicfacekick wrote:

As it was coming back up what I saw was a bit worrying, but it seems to have sorted itself.


What did you see?

 

On the modem or the router?

 

Remember, the first time around, both devices have to figure out how to configure themselves. That's why it is important to do things in the right order.

 

Be sure to restart your network in this sequence:

  • Turn off and unplug modem.
  • Turn off router and computers.
  • Plug in and turn on modem. Wait 2 minutes for it to connect.
  • Turn on the router and wait 2 minutes for it to connect.
  • Turn on computers and rest of network.

 

Message 11 of 15
basicfacekick
Aspirant

Re: MR80 MS80 backhaul dying, incredibly slow speeds on satellites

Unfortunately, putting the AT&T router into passthrough did not resolve. This issue recurred just a few moments ago. 

 

We were at about 500Mbps on a speedtest one minute and a little later, now at 5Mbps.

 

I suppose my last thing to try is putting the AT&T/Arris router back to regular mode and the Nighthawk into AP mode, but I can't help but feel something is fundamentally wrong with this unit or the firmware. If this kind of drop isn't happening to others however, I am wanting to point more to my specific unit.

 

Any other thoughts?

 

Is there any trace or logging I can enable to pull from the Nighthawk that I can send to Netgear that they might want?

 

basicfacekick_0-1691888087176.png

 

Message 12 of 15
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: MR80 MS80 backhaul dying, incredibly slow speeds on satellites

Have not seen this with other MK80s. I set up a system for a friend of mine last year. No issues however they don't have the same ISP modem that you do. There's a stand alone modem. 

 

Do you have a friend or family member near by that you can take the MR too and test at a different location? Would be telling if the problem followed or not. 

 

Seems like the ISP modem maybe causing problems here as well. 

 

Try this, download the FW files for the MR and MS. 

Manually re-load the MS first then the MR lastly.

Press the reset button the MS for 10 seconds then release.

Then factory reset the MR using this process:

 

Setup the MK system from scratch. Do no load any saved backup configurations from file. 

Don't enabled any Access Controls, Armor or Traffic Meter here.

After the system is setup, turn OFF the MS for now. Just test with the MR. 

I'd try the MR in router mode and ensure the IP Pass-thru/DMZ on the ISP router is configured for the MR. 

Power OFF the ISP Modem and MR for one minute then back ON. 
After the system is back to ready, run some speed tests with a wired PC. 

 

Message 13 of 15
basicfacekick
Aspirant

Re: MR80 MS80 backhaul dying, incredibly slow speeds on satellites

I'm hesitant to put this on the ISP router now if this happens with the Nighthawk in AP mode. That's as "dumb" as this system can be. These issues happen even locally, where a device on satellite 1 sees speed dropped to a device on satellite 2... i.e. RDP or SMB. Not even touching the WAN. Speedtest out to the internet just makes it very easy to see/test.

 

No, I don't have anyone nearby who I can troubleshoot with using their connection/equipment.

 

If the problem recurs now that it's in AP mode I will try a factory reset and then go back into AP mode. That would be this system rolled back as far as it can go AND with as many features turned off as can be. If it recurs after THAT, I'm going to ask Netgear for a replacement. I paid for their additional support/coverage and they can make good on that.

 

If all else fails I'm going to count it as a loss and go to a competing device.

 

I appreciate all the help offered here. I liked my previous Orbi and figured this system would be at least as good, and a bit better being Wifi 6... so maybe I got a lemon.

Message 14 of 15
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: MR80 MS80 backhaul dying, incredibly slow speeds on satellites

Let us know how it turns out. 

Message 15 of 15
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