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Re: MS60 satellites link order

Chilli71
Aspirant

MS60 satellites link order

I have MK60 with 3 MS60.
The ideal configuration would be that one satellite connects to each other.
Instead one choses to go through two brickwalls with 2feet in total intstead connecting to the satellite almost in olain view that has only 2 dry walls (less than a foot in total) to the rooter.
The only explanation I would have is that maby only two satellites can be in series and the third one must connect to the router.
It could also be that the router calculates the signal quality wrong and bases the setup on the wrong calculation.
Is there any way how I can manually override the satellite linking?
Message 1 of 12
plemans
Guru

Re: MS60 satellites link order

I haven't used the MK system but I know in the orbi system, daisy chain is only supposed to be with a limit of 2. 

How many satellites can you add to an Orbi WiFi System? | Answer | NETGEAR Support

@Christian_R might know a bit more about the MK system. 

 

I do know brick is one of the best blockers of wifi. And the MK60 system is only dual band. Have you checked into a hardwired backhaul? like using powerline device or moca adapters (ethernet over coax), or even just running an ethernet wire. 

What is an Ethernet backhaul connection and how do I set it up on my Nighthawk Mesh WiFi 6 products?...

Message 2 of 12
Chilli71
Aspirant

Re: MS60 satellites link order

'daisy chain is only supposed to be with a limit of 2'
This is the information that should be available before purchase. Because you are doomed if you bet on it.
If I have to do a wired backhaul I could have saved the money for the mesh system. And saved a lot of time and anger.
However, after manual update to the latest hotfix version (because automatic updates are not working) the router partially reset itself, again ( I love this inconsistent behavior) and did not only need a power cycle but a HW reset to clean up the corrupted data. After new setup (about the 5th this week) it ordered the sattelites in a better way. Not as good as if daisy chain of 3 would work but at least not forcing a satellite to go though 3 feet of bricks.
Actually I'm preparing a wired backhaul at the moment. I have most of the hardware already at home and just need mor LAN outlets and time for cable installation. If I'm talking about daisy chaining 3 satellites you can imagine that I'm not talking about 30feet of cable and the routing is crucial for future expansion.
Using a sattelite as LAN hotspot I had the issue that fixed IPs of LAN devices didn't work. Not sure if it does now after the update. But I'm confident that it will work as soon as the LAN is connected directly to the router.
Message 3 of 12
Chilli71
Aspirant

Re: MS60 satellites link order

Btw. talking about fixed IP ignored on satellite LAN: The router is also ignoring the priority that I set. I don't know if this is in general because the priorities seem to be totally random, or if it's only ignored because the device is hooked wired to the satellite.
Since I've turned on QoS for the first time after the update I take a bit more care about priority. Before I didn't even notice the priority option in the attached devices list.
On a 2nd thought: When I come home I will double check if there is a 2nd button that I need to press to confirm the priority setting that is not visible on the standard layout. This
already tricked me at the fixed IP address setting.
Message 4 of 12
Chilli71
Aspirant

Re: MS60 satellites link order

I double checked.
When setting the priority there is only one apply button. Then it says updating and than it has the same random priorities again, ignoring the manual setting.
This is a ver stubborn router.
Chilli
Message 5 of 12
schumaku
Guru

Re: MS60 satellites link order


@Chilli71 wrote:
I have MK60 with 3 MS60.
The ideal configuration would be that one satellite connects to each other.

This can never be an ideal configuration - if you consider the packet from the last access point does travel over not less than five hops over the air, and over the very same channel .... 

Message 6 of 12
Chilli71
Aspirant

Re: MS60 satellites link order

Where is the problem if latecy is not critical?
How would you supply a long house?

Chilli
Message 7 of 12
schumaku
Guru

Re: MS60 satellites link order


@Chilli71 wrote:
How would you supply a long house?

Version 1: Locate the primary device (the router) about half the way, and span the satelltes to both sides.

 

Version 2: Network cabling - copper or even fiber if distances require. The best investment ever. Now you cna run a wired backhaul.

 


@Chilli71 wrote:
Where is the problem if latecy is not critical?

Latency and the related highe performance impact is always an issue.

 

 

Message 8 of 12
Chilli71
Aspirant

Re: MS60 satellites link order

If I wire everything what do I need a Mesh network for?
I'm not free to select router place. It's next to the modem that is on the edge of the house that has the best receiption.
Of course I can do a wire from the modem to the middle of the house and then a backhaul wire back from the middle of the house to a satellite.
But making an installation through the complete house is exactly what you want to avoid with a Mesh system.
Message 9 of 12
schumaku
Guru

Re: MS60 satellites link order


@Chilli71 wrote:
If I wire everything what do I need a Mesh network for?

The point is that _none_ of these WiFi Mesh systems in the market are true Mesh (in the sense of a mix and match and adopt the best connection) systems.

 

But also in commercial grade wireless [non-WiFi] mesh network planing you usually dont go beyond very few hops for performance and latency reasons.

 

All these consumer Mesh system wireless backhauls are simple enhanced extenders only. The Mesh term is coming from the seamless 802.11k and 802.11v WiFi roaming capabilities..

 


@Chilli71 wrote:
I'm not free to select router place. It's next to the modem that is on the edge of the house that has the best receiption.

Well, you are free - the cause is always bad planning. Reception - is this a wireless ISP site? The modem can remain at the best spot ... from there it's about planning and network design again. All you need is a dedicated link, or at least some MultiGig VLAN capable connection in my opinion.

 

Even the best and most sexiest WiFi Mesh system won't overcome the reality - which include walls, floors, .... Anything else is just marketing.

 

Even these consumer Mesh systems perform massively better is backed by a real wired backhaul. Still the same Mesh system, like your affordable Nighthawk Mesh MK6x or MK8x system.

 

But of course, at that point when it's about a central location with the possibility for deploying (cloud manageable) PoE+ or PoE++ switches, probably VLAN capable, you might consider deploying (cloud manageable) wireless access points like the Netgear WAX6xx (AX) ir WAC5xx (802.11ac).

Message 10 of 12
Chilli71
Aspirant

Re: MS60 satellites link order

Looks like WiFi Mesh is no real Mesh.
I just wish I knew all the limitations before I bought it. And the inmature status of the firmware. I just discovered a new bug today: if I turn off get IP via DHCP on the internet port and select get DNS address from provider it still sets the DNS to static and since I've not adjusted the static address it is 0.0.0.0 Somehow that didn't work well 🤣.
With modem I meant a 4G router.
Message 11 of 12
schumaku
Guru

Re: MS60 satellites link order


@Chilli71 wrote:
Looks like WiFi Mesh is no real Mesh. I just wish I knew all the limitations before I bought it.

Industry standard I'm afraid ...

 


@Chilli71 wrote:
And the inmature status of the firmware. I just discovered a new bug today: if I turn off get IP via DHCP on the internet port and select get DNS address from provider it still sets the DNS to static and since I've not adjusted the static address it is 0.0.0.0 Somehow that didn't work well 🤣

Old misleading Netgear UI implementation I admit. But technically correct: Without DHCP (resp. something similar for DSL PPP encapsulated connections), there is nothing assigned from the ISP. Why? Without DHCP, there is no alternate source to get the DNS IP from the ISP. 

 


@Chilli71 wrote:
With modem I meant a 4G router.

Suspected something the like.

 

So happy I have not much to deal with Netgear's consumer equipment.

Message 12 of 12
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