Reply

250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

sbell22
Aspirant

250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

My R8000 is connected to Spectrum Cable in Reno NV.  I have 9mS latency and 120Mbps down when connected directly to the modem.  But as soon as i connect the R8000, latency is 225-250mS making the connection, both for Ethernet devices connected to one of the four ports via an Ethernet Cable, or via WIFi unusable most the time.  Most of today it has been 230 to 250 mS; i just clocked it as 196mS (screenshot attached).

I have isolated the problem toi the router by connecting my Macbook Pro directly to it and running speed tests using different services, to different servers, and different times of days.  It takes me forever to open websites with a quarter second delay on every IP "Ping" and many services/web servers just hang up. 

I studied the past posts in this forum and all i found was to update the firmware, and turn the QoS feature off.  I've never have the QoS on, and firmware was recently updated to v1.0.4.4_1.1.42

 

I can bypass the Netgear R8000 by connecting one of my machines with an Ethernet cable, then i get screaming fast internet with 9mS latency.  So the R8000 is the problem for sure. 

This problem has plagued me on and off for over a year since i paid over $300 for this high-end router at the local Best Buy, hoping to avoid these types of headaches.  I always thought it was Spectrum, the ISP.  But they sent a senior tech out and he showed me how great the connnection is, so i started testing the router. 

 

Thanks in advance for any debugging suggestions.

Model: R8000|Nighthawk X6 AC3200 Smart WIFI Router
Message 1 of 25
TerryPh
Virtuoso

Re: 250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

Follow Case850's footstep.
Downgrade FW to 1.0.3.54 for this R8000 router.
Save you headaches.
Model: R8000|Nighthawk X6 AC3200 Smart WIFI Router
Message 2 of 25
sbell22
Aspirant

Re: 250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

Here's another screenshot showing the ping latency when my Netgear R8000 outer is in the network between my computer and the cable modem: 245mS (this is typical). 

 

Almost a quarter of a second delay each and every time an IP/UDP packet is exchanged!  Makes it like using a 300bps modem (actually, worse as many apps and sites will time out).  

Model: R8000|Nighthawk X6 AC3200 Smart WIFI Router
Message 3 of 25
sbell22
Aspirant

Re: 250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

What do you mean by "Case 850's doorstep"?  Is that another ticket on this forum which i should refer to?

Message 4 of 25
TerryPh
Virtuoso

Re: 250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

No. Just my way to express my gratitude towards somebody.
So, please just downgrade to FW v1.0.3.54 and then immediately after successful FW downgrading, hard reset your router (30-30-30 reset). Apply your configuration . And you are all set.
Message 5 of 25
sbell22
Aspirant

Re: 250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

Sounds good, thanks but there is only one version of the firmware for this router on NetGear's website:  I believe it is 1.0.4

They do not offer the older version you're referring to. 

How could NetGear put out an update that basically renders the product a major headache for their customers, and not update it with a fix?  I'm puzzled. 

Message 6 of 25
sbell22
Aspirant

Re: 250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

Sounds good, thanks but there is only one version of the firmware for this router on NetGear's website:  I believe it is 1.0.4

They do not offer the older version you're referring to. 

How could NetGear put out an update that basically renders the product a major headache for their customers, and not update it with a fix?  I'm puzzled. 

Model: R8000|Nighthawk X6 AC3200 Smart WIFI Router
Message 7 of 25
TerryPh
Virtuoso

Re: 250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

Once you get to www.support.netgear.com, type in R8000 and choose the router to display the support page for R8000.

Click on + sign next to "View Previous Versions", click on "Firmware Version 1.0.3.54" and download the Zip file to your computer.

Unzip it the extract the file "R8000 V1.0.3.54_1.1.37,chk" to a particular location on your computer.

Open the router interface. Under Advance Tab/Administrative/Router Update/  browse to your computer location that has the .chk file and flashing it to your router that way.

Follow the steps mentioned in previous post after sucessfully completing your downgrading fw.

I am just helping to deviate your headches after all.

They are working on fixing it. It seems to be a big task and it will take time.

 

Message 8 of 25
sbell22
Aspirant

Re: 250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

Thanks, and i appreciate that you're just trying to volunteer some help.  Just thought you or someone else who has dealt with this might understand how this could even happen, and remain an open issue for some long, unfixed, on an expensive high-end NetGear product. 

I followed the instructions and downgraded the firmware to v3.54, and it changed things but did not fix the problem.  Although ping latency dropped to 40mS, that is still WAY to high to be usable day-to-day.  But worse, the download speed is only 3Mbps!  WIthout the Netgear in the way i get 120Mbps. 


As a former design engineer / EE, i cannot accept the theory that upgrading their firmware to fix the problem "is really hard" or "takes a long time".  That's not how router firmware development works. This product is worthless as is and such a severe problem could be readily isolated and fixed.  As they say "this ain't rocket surgery".  Any average test engineer with familiarity with the firmware should be able to figure it out and issue a fix fast. 


I'll tell you one thing for sure - that was my last purchase of a NETGEAR product.   I paid way up to get a premium product so there wouldn't be hassles. 

Model: R8000|Nighthawk X6 AC3200 Smart WIFI Router
Message 9 of 25
TerryPh
Virtuoso

Re: 250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

They figured it out WHY but the optimal software fix is not ready yet. A little bumpy road.
So, test engineer figured it out root cause of problem. Trials firmware did come but still failed.
Fine tuning is still in process.
Any way, it is interesting for me to deal with these kinds of problems to keep my mind busy. As I am a former engineer EE/CD (been out of the field for do long) I remember how we used to work to solve problems, not the same any more..
Btw, did you really do hard resetting the router after flashing the fw?
Message 10 of 25
sbell22
Aspirant

Re: 250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

Well thanks for hanging out here and keeping your mind busy.  I did power cycle the router a couple of times and it is still delivering ping latencies in the 250-500mS range.  Sometimes the bandwidth is a little higher but this thing is broken. 

 

If the engineers know what's wrong but not how to fix it then they are incompetent.  WIFi routers are not a scientific experiment, they are production products. By allowing a defective product to set on the market without a fix, they are seriously damaging their brand reputation.  Companies that do that tend to be dysfunctional (in more places than just their engineering teams) so i will avoid NETGEAR going forward, in order to not get burned.  

Model: R8000|Nighthawk X6 AC3200 Smart WIFI Router
Message 11 of 25
sbell22
Aspirant

Re: 250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

That's a good suggestion i will reboot to clear the IP Stack in MacOS.  

In the meantime here's a data point: when i turn off Wi-Fi on the Mac and plug it into the Cable Modem's Ethernet port, right away i am getting 9mS ping and 130Mbps download, 3Mbps up - screaming fast. 
But i recognize that Wi-Fi may use some other component of the stack so i will try your suggestion and report back after my evening walk.  Thanks for the creative troubleshooting idea. 

Message 12 of 25
sbell22
Aspirant

Re: 250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

Those are some good troubleshooting questions.  I don't see within MacOS (OSX v10.13.2) where it shows me what speed the connection is at.  Tomorrow i will check it out within the Router management interface, bet that will show it. 

After my walk your last suggestion gave an idea of something to check, and sure enough the latest versions of Apple's MacOS operating system have been reporting issues with network interfaces including excessive latencies on WiFi.  I had assumed it's the Router because when i plug a hardwired connection into the Mac, it's faster however upon closer examination that is not a conclusive test to isolate the problem to the Router.  It may well be, i realized, that this problem is with the Macs and not with the Netgear Router. 

So i downloaded a speed test app on my iphone and tested it, sure enough latencies are down around 25-30 mS over Wi-Fi... with LTE turned off and running on the NetGear 5GHz WiFi connection.  

 

I have three Macs here so i cracked out the other Macbook pro, it also has hugely long latencies running on Wi-Fi.  I will start testing with an iMac and run everything both wired and wireless tomorrow, and some patterns should form.   Also i will test with two iPad devices. 

 

This article makes me think I am actually dealing with a MacOS issue, but more testing is needed to be sure.  My company is a member of Apple's Joint Venture program, for escalated tech support so i will likely setup an appointment with them tomorrow.  Also i will get the answers you asked for about the connection speeds. 

Thanks for the great debugging ideas, most helpful!  And i will continue to post here until i figure this out.  It is possible that i blamed NetGear where actually the problem is with Apple's latest operating system release.  I will get to the bottom of it and be sure to post here, out of fairness to NetGear. 

More tomorrow, and thanks again. 



Model: R8000|Nighthawk X6 AC3200 Smart WIFI Router
Message 13 of 25
sbell22
Aspirant

Re: 250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

Here is that article about MacOS WiFi issues, i meant to include it in the last reply:

 

http://osxdaily.com/2016/09/22/fix-wi-fi-problems-macos-sierra/

 

Also - in looking through the Router interface pages, don't see anywhere where it tells you the speed of the connection (100 vs 1000 Mbps). 

Model: R8000|Nighthawk X6 AC3200 Smart WIFI Router
Message 14 of 25
TerryPh
Virtuoso

Re: 250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

Thanks Case850 for jumping in.
Also thanks to shell22 for giving the best methodogically approach there.
I did not initially think much about IP stack before, since I'm a Windows bias guy and dis not really have much with IOS experiences.
I'm testing/debugging few failed trials FW s voluntarily since the troublesome updates coming out late November last year. One certain things are that yes, router technology are quite simple as you said,but when they try to implement new technological features in an older designed hardware, it becomes quite complex.... As an engineer, I bet you already encountered lots of such instances that sometimes take a lot more brainstorming time and energy to overcome...
Any way, please help keep my mind busy with your greatly appreciated outcome tomorrow.
Best
Terry
Message 15 of 25
sbell22
Aspirant

Re: 250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

Sorry i got busy and couldn't tend to this for a few days.  I have been running the recommended/older version of the firmware for close to a week now, and both the R8000 and the attached computers have beent through several "reboot cycles".  The ping latency is close to half a second -- making it tortuous to use the computer online. 
I opened TERMINAL in OSX and sure enough, the PING command to Google.com also shows 355mS latency, per attached screenshot. 
I am attached to the R8000 via Ethernet cable, and Wi-Fi is turned off. I added a Netgear 24 port switch below the router this weekend, looks like i'm connecting at 100Mbps not 1000Mbps.  However that should not cause a half second ping; nothing has changed there.  I can connect directly to the router again for testing, if necessary. 
Let me know if there are other tests i could run.  I did run a ping test using an online/cloud tool and it shows 20mS to Google.com.  That takes the router and computer out of the equation.  I have never thought it was the ISP.  It's either my Macs, or the router.  But even my iPad is getting the low latency, "suspect #1" has to the R8000 for now. 

Message 16 of 25
sbell22
Aspirant

Re: 250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

fyi i think you were right this test is just to the network interface, it may bypass the protocol stack.  Because i am using the same machine at my office, it's a University building with a blazing fast network.  Check out when i run speed test from there (also connected via Ethernet cable) per attached screenshot: 12mS ping, 903Mbps up, 825Mbps down.  This with the same Macbook pro laptop computer i'm getting half second pings from at home, using the Netgear R8000 router. 

Model: R8000|Nighthawk X6 AC3200 Smart WIFI Router
Message 17 of 25
sbell22
Aspirant

Re: 250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

here's that screenshot - the forum software strips off attachments if they are .jpeg... they have to be named .jpg:

Model: R8000|Nighthawk X6 AC3200 Smart WIFI Router
Message 18 of 25
sbell22
Aspirant

Re: 250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

Thanks for the tips.  I have no access lists enabled, and made sure QoS is off; i have never had it on.  I have tried all the latest versions of the firmware but recently went back to .54 after a recommendation in this forum; nothing has helped.  I had seperate SSIDs for the two 5GHz radios, recently changed them to be the same (there is an option for that). 
If i change routers, that would mean i have to purchase a new one since i've had this one for a year.  You can be absolutely sure that will not be a NETGEAR, after investing over $300 to get a "no headaches" "fast" router.  I got the opposite!

Model: R8000|Nighthawk X6 AC3200 Smart WIFI Router
Message 19 of 25
sbell22
Aspirant

Re: 250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

OK here is the speed info:

 

When connected directly to the Router, the R8000 is connecting at 1,000Mbps (Gig E).  Same with a direct connection to the Cable Modem Ethernet port.  As soon as i connect to the Netgear Hub, it's a 100Mbps connection, so i am getting a live indication.  I am keeping the Netgear out of the equation now, for testing. 

Model: R8000|Nighthawk X6 AC3200 Smart WIFI Router
Message 20 of 25
sbell22
Aspirant

Re: 250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

Prodigy, when you refer to performing a "factory reset" before and after the update, that isn't something i have found in the interface.  There is a "reboot" button but it only resets the router, it does not restore all the parameters to factory state.  Am i missing something there?

Model: R8000|Nighthawk X6 AC3200 Smart WIFI Router
Message 21 of 25
sbell22
Aspirant

Re: 250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

Another significant "testing data point" now:
I have been running the speed test all evening, it's been about 350mS through the Netgear R8000 connected at 1000Mbps to my Macbook Pro with an Ethernet cable.  Download speeds about 80Mbps.  I just moved the Ethernet cable directly to the Cable modem's Ethernet port and re-tested: 9mS latency and 120Mbps download speed.  This, in addition to the numbers measured at my office, clearly isolate the issue to the NetGear R8000 Router.  
When i'm connected directly to the modem without the Netgear R8000 in the way, it's an entirely different experience using the internet - everything is snappy and fast.  Having hugely long ping time makes every website seem like a dog - it's a miserable experience and i've been suffering this for months.  I "paid up" for the R8000 high-end model specifically to avoid these types of problems and the associated loss of time spent trying to resolve them.  

Model: R8000|Nighthawk X6 AC3200 Smart WIFI Router
Message 22 of 25
sbell22
Aspirant

Re: 250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

Aha!  The old factory reset button.  I used a paper clip to reset the router to factory condition, and i'm getting a 9mS ping on 2.4GHz Wi-Fi. 

I will do some more testing tomorrow.  It may be a little too early to celebrate since the router has had low latency at times in the past, then later in the day it's slowed down again. 

Model: R8000|Nighthawk X6 AC3200 Smart WIFI Router
Message 23 of 25
sbell22
Aspirant

Re: 250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

Well darn, i spoke to soon.  As soon as i switched over the the 5GHz ESSID, i'm getting 310mS latencies. 

I switched back to 2.4GHz and got 10mS latency there on the first test, then it gives me 330mS {sign}. 

I plugged the Ethernet cable back into the router and turned WiFi off, initially i am getting 12mS latencies there but based on past experience, that's not reliable as it has been slow on the wired ports as well. 

I'm going to have to decide tomorrow whether this is worth investing more time in, or if i should go out and purchase a router from a different manufacturer.  I already have a lot of time invested in testing this one and it's not yielding results.  If you think there is some key test i should run before giving up on Netgear, let me know and i'll try another round with it. 

 

Message 24 of 25
sbell22
Aspirant

Re: 250mS ping latency hardwired to R8000 - Nighthawk™ X6—AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router

I'm not buying that line of reasoning, that the R8000 is not the problem.  Here's the reason: when i plug the Ethernet cable into the modem, everything is screaming fast.  The only change is the Netgear is not in the connection. 

So that theory does not fit the facts as directly observed.  

Also i am seeing 330mS latencies then 10mS latencies less than a minute later... i seriously doubt the ISP would be that erratic especially late at night on a Monday. 

 

Message 25 of 25
Top Contributors
Discussion stats
  • 24 replies
  • 2746 views
  • 0 kudos
  • 2 in conversation
Announcements

Orbi WiFi 6E