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Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

Lexist2112
Luminary

Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

Message 1 of 27
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

I hope it works better than Qualcomms. :mad:
My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.2.1(LAG Disabled)> RBK953(v6.0.3.68) & XR450(v130)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, CBR750, RBK853 v4.6.3.16(AP) & RBK752 v4.6.5.14, RBK50(v22), SXR30(v110), R7000(v34), R7800(v84), R7960P(v82), EX7500/EX7700, and WNHDE111
Message 2 of 27
Fairytail
Virtuoso

Re: Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

It will be available in the next firmware release although there is no ETA yet when it will be released.
Message 3 of 27
mediatrek
Virtuoso

Re: Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

FURRYNUTZ wrote:
I hope it works better than Qualcomms. :mad:


If you are judging Qualcomm's engine based solely on the Netgear R7500, it is really not Qualcomm's fault. Netgear just has done a very poor job in implementing and integrating the dynamic QoS Qualcomm Streamboost platform with their own "skin."

If you want to see the Qualcomm Streamboost engine at it's best you will want to see it handle traffic shaping on the Zyxel NBG6716 and D Link DGL-5500. However those two units disappoint in other aspects of a wireless router.
Message 4 of 27
mstendah
Novice

Re: Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

Lexist2112 wrote:
to R8000Smiley Happy
Dynamic QoS for R8000 next FW update soon...Bob Silver?t=22861


Any updates on this. Trying to make a decision between the X4 and the X6 and the Dynamic QoS is one that I really like. If it won't make it to X6, I might as well go for the X4.
Message 5 of 27
VE6CGX
Master

Re: Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

Hi, I have R7500 and Linksys EA8350. My ISP gives me 50/3 speed on my plan. If I run speed test on EA8350, it is always 50/3 but if I run it on R7500 it never reaches 50/3, always ~48/~2.5 or so. I suspect dynamic QoS.
Message 6 of 27
jb1146
Aspirant

Re: Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

Somethings strange... Netgear has GPL firmware for R8000 v1.0.1.28 posted, but is not available for download by end users. Support does not have an ETA on firmware update. Anyone know what the delay is?
Message 7 of 27
Babylon5
NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

I know it’s coming, and I am not aware of any issues, so vague as this might sound the answer is still ‘soon’ (but I believe very soon).

I will see if I can find more definite info.
____________________________
Working on behalf of Netgear
My name is Andy
Message 8 of 27
mediatrek
Virtuoso

Re: Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

jb1146 wrote:
Somethings strange... Netgear has GPL firmware for R8000 v1.0.1.28 posted, but is not available for download by end users. Support does not have an ETA on firmware update.
Anyone know what the delay is?


v1.0.1.28 would not contain anything to do with the dynamic QoS release. Anything with the QoS in it will be v1.0.2.xx or higher.
Message 9 of 27
mstendah
Novice

Re: Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

mediatrek wrote:
v1.0.1.28 would not contain anything to do with the dynamic QoS release. Anything with the QoS in it will be v1.0.2.xx or higher.


Ok, so you are saying Dynamic QoS is in fact coming, but we still have to wait a bit?

I am in the process of returning either the X4 or the X6 and have a hard time deciding which. Price is roughly the same.
Message 10 of 27
mediatrek
Virtuoso

Re: Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

A dynamic QoS feature will be coming to the R8000. Back on 2/24/2015 a video for the R8000 Dynamic QoS was posted to Netgear's YouTube Channel, but removed a week later after I pointed out to Netgear that the firmware has yet to be publically released. They also had a guide on the R8000's download page with a guide that included info on the feature. Plus, it is mentioned in marketing materials sent to resellers (ie: see Newegg.com)

If you are choosing between the R7500 & R8000, both have their pros and cons. The biggest con with the R7500 is it's slower boot (and reboot) times due to having to load more due to the mix of chipset vendors used in the model. With the R8000, the biggest con IMO is that the upcoming QoS cloud database is much less "mature" than the Qualcomm-Streamboost based-database the R7500 draws from.

If you can wait, Netgear and others will have new products this spring and early summer which will feature what was previewed at CES 2015 back in January. Personally, I am looking forward to a fully baked MU-MIMO solution that uses Qualcomm's solutions across the board instead of the mix and match of Qualcomm (SoC & 2.4Ghz) and Quantenna (5Ghz) that is the R7500.

Basically, if you will also be using storage (USB 3.0, eSATA) with the router of your choosing, the R7500 is for you. If you will not be using storage features of a router, then the R8000 is your bet. Basically with Dynamic Qos enabled (or not), the R7500 offers better performance in storage features than the R8000.

Basically the R7500 using the Qualcomm-Atheros IPQ processor can better handle processor intensive tasks than the Broadcom chip in the R8000.
Message 11 of 27
mstendah
Novice

Re: Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

Thank you mediatrek, very useful!

My storage is all in the cloud by now so the only thing that matters is how fast data is transferred in/out of my home. Might be better off with the R8000 then.
Message 12 of 27
bransom
Novice

Re: Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

Does anyone have recommendations on what router to use for VOIP? I have a VOIP business phone in my home connected to the R8000 (bought when I mistakenly thought it supported QoS) and, while it works as it, it could certainly be better.

Should I make do until Netgear finally releases the updated firmware? Or just punt and buy an older unit or another brand?

Thanks...
Message 13 of 27
avtella
Prodigy

Re: Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

Ithink you should be fine, I have an Ooma VoIP unit and all 4 cell phones in my family are connected using T-Mobile's WiFi calling (VoIP) and we have no issues.
Message 14 of 27
TANWare
Star

Re: Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

bransom wrote:
Does anyone have recommendations on what router to use for VOIP? I have a VOIP business phone in my home connected to the R8000 (bought when I mistakenly thought it supported QoS) and, while it works as it, it could certainly be better.

Should I make do until Netgear finally releases the updated firmware? Or just punt and buy an older unit or another brand?

Thanks...


I would have to ask as to what our pipe is that VOIP is getting issues?
Message 15 of 27
Retired_Member
Not applicable

Re: Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

Funny thing when selecting QOS one third of my devices don't show on the connected device list for hours if at all. But they do on the traditional attached device list. What's up with that? Maybe they pulled it after realizing what a resource pig it truly is. V1.0.2.28_1.0.76
Message 16 of 27
TANWare
Star

Re: Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

did you enable QoS on all wireless channels? Also you have to remember that these FW's are beta yet. that version you have is all the way back too 11/2014. I am fortunate my pipe is so fat there is no real need.

One thing I noticed, being I run a USB drive, is enabling QoS then effects the throughput of that drive as well on the wireless channel.
Message 17 of 27
Retired_Member
Not applicable

Re: Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

If you're referring to WMM option for each band then yes all three are enabled. If it's something else or another setting I'm not aware of any. Although I don't consider WMM being a true QOS anything, it's part of the WIFI standard and I'm still confused as to why the option to disable even exists.
The myth about QOS is that is has some magical way of prioritizing data on a network which is inadequate to handle all the users at peak times. Ever turn on the TV @ 4 am? Their are plenty of infomercials claiming to solve the same thing regarding small pipes. As for the USB drive(s) I gave on those years ago and prefer using actual servers for that stuff.
Message 18 of 27
TANWare
Star

Re: Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

For mine, as of now, I am only using it for home network DLNA. I tried the backup but it is too slow. The other problem is bandwidth, and this could be where QoS would help. If I have a backup running it could kill anyone on the wired side trying to watch a movie. I just can't deal with only 10%-15% of the available bandwidth to the wireless lines. I set it to 500mbps and the available read went down to 3+MBs instead of over 30+MBs on my AC equipped laptop.
Message 19 of 27
Retired_Member
Not applicable

Re: Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

I don't believe QOS has any effect on LAN or WLAN.
Message 20 of 27
mediatrek
Virtuoso

Re: Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

TANWare wrote:
For mine, as of now, I am only using it for home network DLNA. I tried the backup but it is too slow. The other problem is bandwidth, and this could be where QoS would help. If I have a backup running it could kill anyone on the wired side trying to watch a movie. I just can't deal with only 10%-15% of the available bandwidth to the wireless lines. I set it to 500mbps and the available read went down to 3+MBs instead of over 30+MBs on my AC equipped laptop.


The dynamic QoS will not help in controlling what is coming and going across your local LAN. It only will look at what is coming in and out (WAN to LAN and LAN to WAN).

TANWare it sounds like your issue is the CPU bottleneck of the R8000 unit since you are using the storage features of the actual router and not an separate NAS. Enabling the dynamic QoS (when officially released) on the R8000 will just tax your unit's CPU cycling even more so when the storage is being used. Honestly, the R7500 is a better unit for storage usage as it's CPU is not only faster, but has a Qualcomm Snapdragon Krait architecture dual-core 1.4GHz processor for storage and application tasks, and inside of that a dual-core 730 MHz network packet processor engine that offloads network traffic processing, then the 5G radio from Quantenna in the R7500 has it's own dual-core 500Mhz processor.
Message 21 of 27
TANWare
Star

Re: Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

No, QoS does not have an effect, for what I can see, across the LAN but it does from USB to wireless LAN, at least in the beta(s). I say this as my throughput with it enabled at 500mbps went from 35MBs to 3+mbs reading from the USB drive.

While I agree there may be a CPU limit the evidence does not support it. With a CPU limit I would be hitting a solid wall. In other words if the CPU could only support 70/45 R/W then I would see full bandwidth (without overhead) up too that point.

But I do not. For wireless, where I have a reported 650mbps connection, I see a true throughput of 300mbps. If I get closer to report a 866.7mbps this will climb to peaks of 430 or so. On wired, and this could be a CPU limit, I do see the 70/45MBs limit on the gigabit connection and a 14' patch chord.

So max throughput on the wireless is 47/35MBs at the 866mbps. Also on the PC I do have 135/??, I never measured write, so I know the HDD is more than fast enough.

Now the WAN does not suffer this issue, My pipe will go to 60/30Mbps on my laptop running 650Mbps, on my laptop running 150Mbps as well on my tablet and phone running 135Mbps. All of this through 5GHz with the R8000, of course each separately accessing speedtest.net.

Yes the R7000 is a faster box, and seems much more mature. from the evidence so far there is a lot of hidden performance from the R8000 there, it just needs to get unlocked.

Again I first thought the USB bandwidth was being shared on the radios but it looks like, and the math supports it, the 77/45 I was experiencing is given to the 1300 and then scaled from there with a 50% reduction. Without any other overhead, on the reads, that would be 13*12.5/2=81.25 MBs (for every 1000mbps=12.5MBs at 50%)

So again I fall back to the two issues.

1.) why a 50% reduction? Maybe I am wrong here and it is needed but why?
2.) Why is the bandwidth scalable from the USB where it is not from the WAN? I know other have reported on high end WAN connections seeing throughput of 800+Mbps so there appears to be no 50% reduction there either.
Message 22 of 27
TANWare
Star

Re: Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

I have a couple of theories on the 50% reduction.

1.) If between the WAN and USB interface there where no FiFo they then may have an every other packet scheme. I doubt this though as the scaling more likely would not be there.

2.) The more likely could be if between the USB 3.0 and 2.0 interface they share bandwidth to the LAN interface effectively cutting the speed in half. If this is the case could we then get programmatically an enable/disable of the individual ports to regain the speed, or an auto sensor?
Message 23 of 27
TANWare
Star

Re: Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

Well it is not the USB interface doing an every other on the bandwidth . I can show that.

I placed a USB 2.0 drive on the Router with the present USB 3.0 drive. If I dual transfer from the drives the throughput is slit between the two. If they were doing an ever other then they would each have their own bandwidth and it would not effect each other.

Interesting note though. both had the same transfer throughput at 650Mbps. Both were doing a 35MBs read. I went to the router where 866Mbps was the connection and the throughput was 45+MBs on the USB 3.0 drive but remained at 35MBs on the USB 2.0 as expected from the interface cap.

1.) So the 50% reduction affects everything on the pipe from the USB. This is scaled from the connection speed and is not dependent on the device speed, up to the devices cap.
Message 24 of 27
mstendah
Novice

Re: Good News Dynamic QoS coming...

searay wrote:
Funny thing when selecting QOS one third of my devices don't show on the connected device list for hours if at all. But they do on the traditional attached device list. What's up with that? Maybe they pulled it after realizing what a resource pig it truly is.


V1.0.2.28_1.0.76


Where is this Beta FW available?
Message 25 of 27
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