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How to configure multiple routers on the same network to report internet conectivity
Hi
I have a medium sized network containing three wireless routers hardwired to an internet firewall/dhcp server. That provides connection to my ISP. Niether of the infrastructure routers report being able to connect to the internet on the administration home screens. This is obviously not the case as any device wired or wirelessly connected to either router connects directly to the internet without problems.
As this is now interfering with the firmware updates, and the mobile app, I thought I'd try to get to the bottom of things.
The only thing I can think of is every connecting device is assigned a default gateway to connect too the intoernet by dhcp, these three routers are configured with static addresses and there is no obvious place to put a gateway address. So I'm looking for some pointers. I've manually updated the firmware to the latest version.
Re: How to configure multiple routers on the same network to report internet conectivity
Ignoring all the vague and condescending comments, that was a very useful and helpful response.
RTFM? seriously
Yes routers. According to 'cisco' a router is a device that receives and sends data on computer networks. As both wired and wireless functionality is in use they are routers.
My opinion of what's the latest firmware is also netgear's opinion. but if you're confused Visit http://netgear.com/support
I will be continuing to manage the routers statically, when you are working with 50+ wired/wireless devices, over 3 buildings, you need easily identifiable spheres of failure, to diagnose the problem from memory. Especially when something as simple as a bird can disrupt a P2P node between the buildings.
interfering with the mobile app and firmware updates. I was clear that both these operations required the routers to have active internet access so the can connect to and be connected to, from the internet. The firmware collection and installation agent fails because the router cannot see the netgear download servers. The app tries to register your router with your cloud account. If the home screen of the administration console says not connected to internet, neither function will work for a very fundamental reason.
My basic take away is that I have to track back 20 30 40 meters of cabling to find infrastructure only connections, an initial attempt on one of the routers resulted in a complete black out of wired and wireless connectivity for nearly an hour. so I need to get my cable testers out and be sure before randomly moving cables around again.
... these three routers are configured with static addresses and there is no obvious place to put a gateway address. ...
This tells me you are looking on a router LAN configuration, a router configured as NAT router. And it's unclear if/how the WAN/Internet port is connected - if at all. Because if these would be configured as wireless access points - this is the only way to get a single flat network - there is a configuration option for the router one and only management interface, it's IP address, subnet mask, default gateway, ...
Afraid, you need to provide much more information on the network configuration, on the wired connections, on the three router configuration, ... and probably of what you see and/or are looking for.
For the firmware update, connect from a computer to the LAN IP of the three routers, and handle it there.
No idea if/how the Nighthawk App does support routers in AP mode. If they do, if each of the routers is registered to the Netgear cloud, all three show up individually, and you can select each router individually in the App.
Re: How to configure multiple routers on the same network to report internet conectivity
Hi kurt
Thanks for the reply
I was hoping it would be something simple and obvious that i missed, because beyond the hardware I already mentioned things get way more complex. I have a 24 pport POE smart switch running the wired infrastructure, two WDS access points connecting out buildings buildings. The three wireless routers are access points.The same network subnet is used through out. the ISP provided modem is plugged into the dhcp server and is set as the gateway.
On each router there is a section to configure the internet connection settings, which is blank except on the gateway, this is configured with my ISP username and password, then it is set to dynamically get it's IP address from.the ISP that is also connected directly to the ISP provided modem via the dedicated socket. I assume experimenting with thhis page on the other routers is is pointless because there is no modem connected here, and any change could do more harm than good.
I can do the firmware updates manually, as I did today, when they completed I was asked if I would like them to update automatically in the future, but I know this won't work as the only router that reports it is connected to the internet is tthe one the ISP modem is connected to..
Re: How to configure multiple routers on the same network to report internet conectivity
> [...] The three wireless routers are access points. [...]
So, not actually "routers", then. How, exactly, did you configure them? Did you follow the procedure in the User Manual under "Use the Router as a Wireless Access Point", or did you use some other, ad-hoc scheme?
Visit http://netgear.com/support , put in your model number, and look for Documentation. Get the User Manual (at least). Read. Look for "Use the Router as a Wireless Access Point".
> [...] Niether of the infrastructure routers report being able to > connect to the internet on the administration home screens. [...]
When configured as a WAP, a device like the R8000 is esentially all-LAN, and has no great interest in the Internet. (It might want Internet access for some minor functions, like, say, connecting to an Internet time server to set its date+time, but its primary activity is all on the LAN.) If you use the documented WAP-mode configuration procedure, which uses the WAN/Internet port on the R8000 for its connection to the main LAN, then it might be happier, because it might expect to use that interface for what little Internet access it might want. If your scheme uses a LAN port for its connection to the main LAN, then the router-as-WAP might have more problems with features like its "Internet" LED indicator or its clock, even though its principal (local) functions are all fine.
> As this is now interfering with the firmware updates, and the mobile > app, [...]
"interfering" is not a very detailed description of anything. It does not say what you did. It does not say what happened when you did it. As usual, showing actual actions (commands) with their actual results (error messages, LED indicators, ...) can be more helpful than vague descriptions or interpretations.
If by "the firmware updates" you mean one of the automatic methods where the router fetches its own firmware image, so that it would need Internet access, then that could be one more case where not using the WAN/Internet port on the router-as-WAP could cause trouble.
> [...] these three routers are configured with static addresses and > there is no obvious place to put a gateway address. [...]
There should be, _if_ you use the documented WAP-mode configuration procedure. By default ("Get dynamically from existing router."), the router-as-WAP will get its IP parameters (including gateway and DNS server(s)) using DHCP. If you instead choose "Enable fixed IP settings on this device (not recommended).", then you should be able to specify all the relevant parameters: IP Address IP Subnet Mask Gateway IP Address Primary DNS Secondary DNS
> [...] I've manually updated the firmware to the latest version.
As always, an actual version number would be more useful than your opinion of what's "latest" today.
> [...] I assume experimenting with thhis page on the other routers is > is pointless because there is no modem connected here, and any change > could do more harm than good.
I wouldn't assume that, but manually configuring those parameters might not help if you're not using the WAN/Internet port on the router-as-WAP (as specified in the documentation).
Re: How to configure multiple routers on the same network to report internet conectivity
Ignoring all the vague and condescending comments, that was a very useful and helpful response.
RTFM? seriously
Yes routers. According to 'cisco' a router is a device that receives and sends data on computer networks. As both wired and wireless functionality is in use they are routers.
My opinion of what's the latest firmware is also netgear's opinion. but if you're confused Visit http://netgear.com/support
I will be continuing to manage the routers statically, when you are working with 50+ wired/wireless devices, over 3 buildings, you need easily identifiable spheres of failure, to diagnose the problem from memory. Especially when something as simple as a bird can disrupt a P2P node between the buildings.
interfering with the mobile app and firmware updates. I was clear that both these operations required the routers to have active internet access so the can connect to and be connected to, from the internet. The firmware collection and installation agent fails because the router cannot see the netgear download servers. The app tries to register your router with your cloud account. If the home screen of the administration console says not connected to internet, neither function will work for a very fundamental reason.
My basic take away is that I have to track back 20 30 40 meters of cabling to find infrastructure only connections, an initial attempt on one of the routers resulted in a complete black out of wired and wireless connectivity for nearly an hour. so I need to get my cable testers out and be sure before randomly moving cables around again.
Re: How to configure multiple routers on the same network to report internet conectivity
> Ignoring all the vague and condescending comments, [...]
Among _my_ comments, what, exactly, was "vague"? Or, for that matter, "condescending"?
> RTFM? seriously
Did you? It's sure not obvious. The symptoms which you report might be consistent with your not having followed the documented procedure. Who could tell? If you believe that you know how to configure a router as a WAP without bothering with TFM, then that could explain your reported symptoms.
> [...] According to 'cisco' a router is a device that receives and > sends data on computer networks. [...]
I'd love to see a Cisco document which provides such a sloppy definition. A network switch "receives and sends data on computer networks" without being a router, for example.
> My opinion of what's the latest firmware is also netgear's opinion. > [...]
"Netgear" does not always have one opinion. The router's automatic firmware check does not always agree with the available downloads. Without an actual version number, I wouldn't depend on your opinion.
> I will be continuing to manage the routers statically, [...]
I don't know what that means. Do you mean assigning a static IP address, or something else? That can be done in more than one way.
> My basic take away is [...]
That might be true. With my weak psychic powers, I can't see how you configured any of your stuff, physically or logically.
> [...] be sure before randomly moving cables around again.
I'm pretty sure that I didn't suggest doing anything "randomly".
The three wireless routers are access points. The same network subnet is used through out. the ISP provided modem is plugged into the dhcp server and is set as the gateway.
On each router there is a section to configure the internet connection settings, which is blank except on the gateway, this is configured with my ISP username and password, then it is set to dynamically get it's IP address from.the ISP that is also connected directly to the ISP provided modem via the dedicated socket. I assume experimenting with thhis page on the other routers is is pointless because there is no modem connected here, and any change could do more harm than good.
Trouble is that Netgear's consumer routers don't make great access points in general, the related management controls are just glue parts or left-overs from the router mode.
What is completely confusing me here is that you state it's configured with the ISP username and password. A normal plain Ethernet L3 IP configuration - as required in AP mode for connecting to the existing IP network - would be transparent, there should be no protocol involved requiring requiring or offering any authentication. in my "logic", there should be no authentication required, no such protocol like PPTP or PPPoE involved.
There could be more factors. Probably the Internet access "test" works in router mode only, or it fails for whatever other mis-config from above. If it's for harm or good - I have no idea...
There are the potential issues where @antinode talked about RT*M.
I can do the firmware updates manually, as I did today, when they completed I was asked if I would like them to update automatically in the future, but I know this won't work as the only router that reports it is connected to the internet is tthe one the ISP modem is connected to..
Here first again, I don't know if the Nighthawk App can deal with your routers in AP mode.
In general, the App can reach the managed device either while connected to the same [W]LAN (in my understanding traffic needs to flow through the managed device), or by Anywhere Access where the managed device does establish a connection to Netgear's cloud (this requires the device can resolve DNS, and reach the Internet) and be associated with your Netgear Account, so the Nighthawk App can connect to the cloud, and using your Negtear Account again, will list your devices for management.
Of course these three routers in AP mode should be able to reach the Internet, through the existing router and Internet access, just like any other device on your LAN can. Permitting the AP mode config of these three routers is be correct, permitting Netgear has not managed to introduced or carried forward any bugs, .... somehow, I suspect there might be a problem with the DNS resolution - because you can access the IP stack while connected to the LAN.
We could start with some screenshots of your AP-mode routers LAN/Internet config ... not sure on how randomly swapping cables around could help.
