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E350
Aspirant

Nighthawk AC1900 DST and Nest Cam?

Nighthawk DST and Nest cam?  Will the nest cam connect to the DST?  I want to place Nest cam outdoor cameras to view license plates at two or three driveway entrances about 400 feet away from the house. I am planning on running 12# THHN in buried conduit to the driveway entrance(s) terminating in a weatherproof box to power the Nest cam and to provide the connection for the DST adapter and possibly even driveway lighting. The house-end of the conduit(s) will terminate in a metal box with a GFCI in which I will plug in the Router. Any comments suggestions? Any alternatives? Best Buy suggested the Orbi, but I don't believe putting the Orbi satellite outside would be good.

Message 1 of 18
StephenB
Guru

Re: Nighthawk AC1900 DST and Nest Cam?

The "DST Adapter" is really a wifi extender.  For it to work it needs to (a) be able to reach the DST router and (b) also be able to reach the Nest Cams.  400 feet is a long reach for wifi.  I suspect that if you put the adapter near the cameras they won't be able to reach the router.  You could try putting the DST adapter about half-way between the camera location and the router, but that complicates your install.

 

I think you've purchased the wrong solution (and Orbi wouldn't have been a good choice either).  If the DST adapter allowed you to connect to the base router with ethernet, you could still use it (running cat-6a cable though the conduit).  But that connection approach isn't in the manual, so I don't think that will work.

 

One factor to consider is the outdoor temperatures.  If you are using indoor-rated equipment, it might fail during freezing weather (or > 40 C in the summer). 

 

If that's not a issue in your location, then I'd go with a powerline networking to reach the cameras, since you are running power through the conduit anyway.  For instance a Netgear PLW1010.  You'd deploy the WiFi adapter with the cameras, and the ethernet-only adapter in the house.  Ideally it would be on the same power circuit as the cameras.  If you have cameras in multiple locations, you could get additional PLPW1000 modules.

 

If your climate does exceed the 0-40C range, then you will need to do something else.  One option is to use cameras that support Power-over-Ethernet, and run cat-6a (shielded) cable through the conduit.  Then no WiFi is needed,  You would need either a PoE Switch or power injector in the house (or ar the camera).  400 feet is long even for ethernet, but you should be able to get away with 400-500 feet if you use high quality cables.  Netgear's Arlo Q Plus is one camera that would work.

 

Another option (allowing you to use the nest cameras) would be to look for an outdoor wifi access point.  This also requires cat-6a to be added to the conduit.  Netgear has one, but it is too expensive for what you want.  A TP-Link CPE510 might work. The CPE510 operates from -40C to +58C.  The CPE510 has a "power injector" (included) that will put power onto the cat-6a cable (which the AP then uses).  You'll want to put that adapter near the AP/camera location, since I doubt the power will carry 400 feet.

 

You could also run a separate conduit for the outdoor AP, and mount it partway between the cameras and the house. 

 

Whether you go with PoE or powerline, you should try the solution using above-ground connections before you run the conduit.

 

 

 

 

Message 2 of 18
E350
Aspirant

Re: Nighthawk AC1900 DST and Nest Cam?

StephenB:  Let me start by thanking you for disabusing me of my belief that the DST adapter WAS a powerline adapter.  As you can see from my proposed design, I wrongly thought that it was!  Because of you, I now see that it is not.  Thank you for caring to reply to my question. 

 

A couple of things in response to your detailed response.  I decided I wanted to deploy Nest cams because I already own it.  And believe it or not I cam currently using Nest indoor cameras outdoors from 15F to 40F degrees with no problems.   But I plan to buy Nest outdoor cams too.  Regardless all cams will be installed in a weather proof electrical junction box to disguise them and to protect them and maybe even to provide minimum heat to them since the 110v receptical and the PLW1010 will also be installed inside the electrical box (will the PLW1010 generate a small amount of heat in use to cause the camera to be warmer tnan ambient?).  Nest has a great phone and pc viewer/interface.  And we are also buying the Nest Thermostat.

 

As to POE cameras, I considered the POE and even the BNC connected camera approach with a Network Video Recorder or DVR but I wanted to record audio in addition to recording video and I couldn't find one with more than one RCA audio input per NVR, not per camera so one audio for the entire system.  And the phone and pc viewer/interfaces have many more complaints than the Nest interface.

 

So, back to PLW1010: 

 

1.  What adapter do I use inside next to router to pick up the powerline signal (1000 mbps yea!)

 

2.  What router is best to use with it? 

 

3.  Does the PLW1010 use a separate SSID which could make setting up the Nest cam a little more complicated?

 

4.  Any other suggestions?

 

Thank you again.

 

Back Deck.JPG

 

Message 3 of 18
E350
Aspirant

Re: Nighthawk AC1900 DST and Nest Cam?

BTW:

 

Nest Outdoor cam operating temp:  -4 to 104°F 

 

Nest Indoor cam operating temp:  32° to 104° F

Message 4 of 18
E350
Aspirant

Re: Nighthawk AC1900 DST and Nest Cam?

Also BTW, Nest cams I believe are wireless N and 2.4Ghz so I need a Nighthawk router that has good N and 2.4Ghz performance!  Any suggestions?

Message 5 of 18
StephenB
Guru

Re: Nighthawk AC1900 DST and Nest Cam?

The PLW1010 is a package of two powerline devices.  

 

One has just ethernet (and power of course), and is the one you connect inside the house.

 

The other has ethernet, power, and an 802.11ac wifi access point.  That goes inside your weatherproof electical junction box.  It will generate some heat - not sure how much, since the documentation doesn't talk about power use.  You should probably have some form of venting in the junction box.  Also, since it is wif you don't want to surround the wifi access point with metal.   

 

As far as operating range goes, my guess is that the PLW1010 will also exceed its operating range, but it's hard to say by how much.

 

There is some info here: http://www.downloads.netgear.com/files/GDC/PLW1010v2/PLW1010v2_QSG_EN  Note it says "v2", so you probably should try to avoid getting the older v1.

 

Note I don't own this device, so I can't speak to speed.  I do know you won't get anywhere near gigabit.  But it should be more than fast enough for the Nest cameras - which need about 500 kbs of wifi bandwidth each.  Powerline performance depends on circuit quality (house wiring details, etc).  Ideally both ends are on the same circuit.  If you have multiple circuit boxes then it's definitely better if both ends terminate in the same box.

 

Any of the Nighthawk routers should work with this device (and whatever router you are currently using should work too, as long as it has an available LAN port).

Message 6 of 18
E350
Aspirant

Re: Nighthawk AC1900 DST and Nest Cam?

StephenB:  Thanks for your continued help.  You said:

 

"The other has ethernet, power, and an 802.11ac wifi access point."

 

Nest apparently can use 2.4 Ghz or %Ghz, but it requires N.

 

Does the PLW1010 have N as well as ac?

Message 7 of 18
StephenB
Guru

Re: Nighthawk AC1900 DST and Nest Cam?


@E350 wrote:

StephenB:  Thanks for your continued help.  You said:

 

"The other has ethernet, power, and an 802.11ac wifi access point."

 

Nest apparently can use 2.4 Ghz or 5 Ghz, but it requires N.

 

Does the PLW1010 have N as well as ac?


Yes.  All ac routers/access points also support N for backwards compatibility.  I suspect the original PLW1010 (before the v2 refresh) didn't have ac, since some stores (newegg for instance) show it as N300.  That also should be plenty fast enough for your cameras.

Message 8 of 18
E350
Aspirant

Re: Nighthawk AC1900 DST and Nest Cam?

StephenB:  Thank you for your continued assistance.  I have a Linksys WRT3200ACM router at another location which I could move to the cabin.  Do you have any idea if the PLW1010 v2 would connect to it.  Or is a Netgear router required for the PLW1010?

Message 9 of 18
ElaineM
NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: Nighthawk AC1900 DST and Nest Cam?

@E350 These Powerline devices can go along with any brand of routers. 

ElaineM
NETGEAR Community Team
Message 10 of 18
E350
Aspirant

Re: Nighthawk AC1900 DST and Nest Cam?

ElaineM:  I just bought the Netgear R7800 4s and just ordered the PWL1010-100nasv2 to go with it. The sole reason for the powerline is to be able to put Nest cam outdoor at the driveway ends.

 

These are the Nest cam outdoor specs:

 

--   Wi-Fi 802.11a/b/g/n, 2.4GHz and 5GHz

 

--   At 1080p, each camera requires 450 to 1200 Kbps of upload bandwidth while streaming video.

 

I am surprized that the Netgear R7800 actually has a little less connectivity than my old Linksys WRT54G has with the nest cams (without the powerline extender).  

 

1.  Is there a way to increase 2.4Ghz distance in the settings on the R7800?

 

2.  Is there a different Netgear router which would be better for my application?

 

3.  Waiting for delivery of the PLW1010.  In the meantime, do you know if anyone has successfully installed a nest cam with a Netgear PLW1010?  Nest support does not know.

Message 11 of 18
StephenB
Guru

Re: Nighthawk AC1900 DST and Nest Cam?


@E350 wrote:

 

I am surprised that the Netgear R7800 actually has a little less connectivity than my old Linksys WRT54G has with the nest cams (without the powerline extender).  

 

I'm not Elaine of course.  Are you saying that your old linksys is co-located with the R7800, and the nest cams are delivering 1080p video to the linksys, but not the R7800?  That would be surprising.

 

 

 

Message 12 of 18
E350
Aspirant

Re: Nighthawk AC1900 DST and Nest Cam?

Hey StephenB and ElaineM:  Was using the Linksys WRT54G (see photo above).  Disconnected WRT54G and installed the R7800 in the exact same location.  With the WRT54G one of the three nest cameras (the one which complained that I had it set at 1080p and requested that I downgrade it to auto setting to range automatically from 720p to 1080p depending on the quality of the connection consistently dropped out and went offline with the R7800 and only ocasionally dropped out on the WRT54G.  Since the WRT54G only has 2.4Ghz, I am assuming that the 2.4Ghz radio in the R7800 is weaker than in the WRT54G.  Am I correct or is there a setting which will help?  Or is there a Netgear router which has better 2.4Ghz radio connection?

Message 13 of 18
ElaineM
NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: Nighthawk AC1900 DST and Nest Cam?

Have you tried changing channel?

 

Improving 2.4Ghz Wireless Performance by Changing Channel

 

Improving wireless range: Overview

ElaineM
NETGEAR Community Team
Message 14 of 18
StephenB
Guru

Re: Nighthawk AC1900 DST and Nest Cam?


@E350 wrote:

Since the WRT54G only has 2.4Ghz, I am assuming that the 2.4Ghz radio in the R7800 is weaker than in the WRT54G. 


Nighthawk routers operate at the FCC limit of 1 watt (assuming yours was purchased in the US).  It's illegal to transmit more.  Receiver sensitivity of course isn't regulated, but I doubt this is about the radio itself.

 

Try setting the R7800 2.4 ghz radio mode to "up to 54 Mbps" and see if Nest performance improves. Also make sure it's running on the same channel as the old Linksys.

Message 15 of 18
E350
Aspirant

Re: Nighthawk AC1900 DST and Nest Cam?

My cabin is pretty much alone in the woods and there are no other wifi SSIDs broadcasting from the few other cabins which are quite a distance from mine.  Same for at home in farmland area of Sacramento Valley where I just brought the router home to experiment with since New Year's holiday.  So, I just unchecked:

 

"Enable 20/40 MHz coexistence"

 

The Linksys was running on channel  "Auto"

 

Right now my Lenovo Access Connections states that I am getting

 

Wireless LAN - 8011n - 300Mbps

 

(I can't test the range to the cabin cameras while at home now, but I will this weekend.)

 

Wouldn't reducing to 54Mbps make the connection slower than 300Mbps?

 

Is 2.4Ghz range inversely correlated to 2.4Ghz uplink speed?

 

I like that I can disable that WPS thingy, because it wouldn't let me adjust wireless settings while on.

 

ElaineM I will read your links.  StephenB and ElaineM, I appreciate your help.

 

Because here is the deal.  I will want to duplicate the cabin nest cam set up in the Sacramento Valley home once I settle on the router and powerline products.  And I hate having to learn two GUI's options, etc.  I want a duplicate setup.  But first I need to make sure that this is the best set up for the nest cameras.  So, waiting on powerline adapters.  But I would like the best 2.4Ghz range to limit the number of PLW1010-100nasv2 to buy.

 

 

Message 16 of 18
StephenB
Guru

Re: Nighthawk AC1900 DST and Nest Cam?

To be clear - this is just a test, I'm not suggesting that you leave things this way.


@E350 wrote:

 

Wouldn't reducing to 54Mbps make the connection slower than 300Mbps?

 

 


The idea is to force the R7800 to use the same 802.11G mode that the old Linksys is using (as close as possible).  So also recheck 20/40 coexistance too (since the linksys only does 20 mhz channels anyway).  You could go further, and uncheck the WMM QoS settings for 2.4 ghz, and maybe turn off the mu-mimo modes and the implicit beam forming.

 

The top speed you can actually use drops with distance.  Reducing the router ceiling to 54 mbps will certainly make it go slower when you are close.  But it might also establish a more stable connection long-range.  If the router (or the Nest) decide to try a mode that's too aggressive, packets don't get through even if the nominal link speed is higher.  The reduction eliminates that possibility.

 

My prediction is that if you run the same mode the R7800 will perform either the same or better. 

 

The powerline/wifi combo should be the best option since the wifi AP is located with the cameras.  So it should give you the best chance of not missing an alert.   And that would also get you the best speeds when you are near/inside the cabin.

 

 

Message 17 of 18
E350
Aspirant

Re: Nighthawk AC1900 DST and Nest Cam?

10-4.  I won't be able to test this weekend since the PLW1010-100nasv2 will not be delivered until after the weekend.

Message 18 of 18
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