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Re: Nighthawk R8000P Router QUESTION: LIMIT ON # OF WIFI CONNECTIONS?

LA-Kevin
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Nighthawk R8000P Router QUESTION: LIMIT ON # OF WIFI CONNECTIONS?

Firmware Version
V1.4.1.50_1.3.10

 

Short Question: Is there a limit of HOW MANY devices can be registered or connected to each WiFi technology?  If yes, what are the limits?

 

Full Question (Includes more detail):  

Is there a limit of HOW MANY devices can be registered or connected to each WiFi technology such as 2.4 GHz 802.11b/g/n vs 5 GHz 802.11a/n/ac?  If yes, what are the limits?   

 

Also, If there is... my router is tri-zone device having the 2.4 GHz band, the 5 GHz band using a "-2" tacked onto the SSID and a second zone in the 5 GHz band that is indicated by a "-3" in the name at the end of the SSID.

 

So, is the # of device limitations in the first 5 GHz zone separate from the # of devices allowed on the second 5 GHz zone?

 

Final part to this line of questioning:  If there ARE limitations per technology and the use of the second zone in the 5 GHz band is un-checked / disabled, does that double the number of devices which can now be connected in the first zone in the 5 GHz band? 

 

Background on WHY I am asking these questions:

I just installed this router and it replaces the router previously provided by Spectrum Internet - my ISP.  I have been growing a significant "Smart Home" infrastructure with a variety of installed Smart Power Outlets, Smart Wi-Fi Light Bulbs, Smart Wall Light Switches and Dimmers, a Nest(tm) Smart Thermostat, Smart Ribbon Lights, a Ring (tm) Peep Hole Camera and Door Chime, a variety of Google Home (tm) Mini Speaker Hubs placed in each room, several Google Home (tm) Display Hubs, one from Lenovo as well, an Alexa (tm) presence built-in to my Portal (tm) Video Communication device by Facebook, a variety of Google Chromecast (tm) devices connected to TV's and monitors throughout my apartment, a Samsung Smart LED TV and a Chromebook, a Toshiba laptop, a Kasa TP-Link Power Bar, 5 Panasonic Indoor Security Cameras, a Zmodo Camera, a couple of Momentum branded security cameras and two Samsung Galaxy phones.

 

Whew! 

 

As I had to reset and re-install these devices to use a new Google Home "Home" I created (for those Google Home devices) and configure all the devices to use the new SSIDs that I was using because of the new router, I have been a busy boy adding each one by one.   

 

Except for the phones, the Samsung TV, most of the models of Chromecast devices, and the Google Home Display (Hub) Screens, ALL the other devices ONLY work on the 2.4 GHz Wi-Fi band. 

 

The last few devices I have attempted to add have really given me problems.  The errors have been various but relate mostly to "communication errors" during setup.   After replacing the Spectrum Internet MODEM hardware last night (for unrelated purposes), now my PHONE can't use the 2.4 GHz band.  The error I get is that "Access Point Temporarily Full"!?!     Huh? 

 

That lead to my thoughts that perhaps each Band or each technology zone or something has limits on the number of registered devices. 

 

One last important piece of information that will be helpful in analyzing my issue is:  My Spectrum Internet service assigns TCP/IP addresses via DHCP and uses the non-routable Class B addressing scheme of 192.168.X.X with a mask of 255.255.0.0. The router uses 1.1 and the other devices have been assigned from 1.2 - 1.58. 

 

Any help would be wildly appreciated!!!! 

 

 

 

 

Model: R8000P|Nighthawk X6S AC4000 Tri Band WiFi Router
Message 1 of 8
microchip8
Master

Re: Nighthawk R8000P Router QUESTION: LIMIT ON # OF WIFI CONNECTIONS?

NG routers support a max of 32 devices on each WiFi band.

Routing: NETGEAR R7800 - Voxel Firmware 1.0.2.88SF & Kamoj addon
Switching: 2x NETGEAR 8-ports (GS108v4) / 1x NETGEAR 16-ports (JGS516v2)
Desktop: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X - Server: Intel Core i7-7700K - NAS: Intel Pentium G4400, 16 TB
Message 2 of 8
TheQman
Initiate

Re: Nighthawk R8000P Router QUESTION: LIMIT ON # OF WIFI CONNECTIONS?

FYI: small note/clarification: When you say "non-routable.. Class B.." I think you mean the APIPA of 169.254.x.x since it is Class B and non-routable. Because 192.168.x.x is actually Class C and is routable. But.. I doesn't really matter to this question or answer.

 

Short Answer: Packaging says "..up to 55 devices..".  (https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Nighthawk-X6S-Smart-Router-R8000P/dp/B01H53WZ20)

Problem I ran into is that included both Wi-Fi AND Ethernet devices on the same network! So it wasn't just "Wi-Fi" availability.

 

I already had a non-wifi :Business Router" with 2 separate LANs built in (by port), AND another WAP. I set the OTHER WAP to 2.4GHz only for just the IoT devices and that WAP's LAN (on the Router) to 192.168.x.x with DHCP on, and set this Netgear AC4000 to Access Point only and connected all of my "Media" and Home Office stuff to it. 

However, (Solution in your case): If all your devices require an Internet connection, and you want to use this AC4000 as a Router, you *may* be able to do something similar, but less expensive. Purchase another (inexpensive) WAP, and set it in Router mode but only with 2.4GHz turned on for your IoT devices and have it's WAN port connected to a general port on THIS Router (the AC4000). This will present only ONE IP address instead of the dozens you have for IoT. This will also allow you to turn on the 2.4GHz AND the 5GHz radios on this and use the MU-MIMO and other features built into it to maximize your multimedia/streaming which most of the IoT doesn't really need. 

- Also note: This router has the ability to create separate VLANs - by physical port and/or Wi-Fi radio - VERY easily. So you don't have to know/learn/do subnetting. Separating your devices this way can also reduce domain broadcasts (where every single device is broadcasting/listening to, and perhaps holding conversations with every single other device. LOTS of Intra-network traffic. Kind of like having 50 drunk people in room, all holding conversations - loudly - with other individuals, or EVERYONE, or no one, all at the same time. But VLANs will break them up into smaller "rooms". They're still each having loud conversations and announcements to everyone in their room - but ONLY in their room, NOT everyone else too) and thereby reduce, considerably, Intra-network traffic.

So, put your media on one VLAN, your phone perhaps on another, and your PC/Laptop/Tablet on a third. Oh, and the other WAP on the 4th perhaps?

 

Long Answer

I ran into somewhat of the same problem with over 100 IPs in my home network. 

- A dozen POE and PTZ cameras, + BlueIris server on the outside of the house + an old 2.4 WAP for the neighbors to connect to so they stop asking me, "Say, did you see what happened at my house 2 days ago.." etc.

- Another dozen+ cameras IN-house and backyard. Another BlueIris server, and another WAP to get rid of some unsightly wiring my wife started to complain about more and more often.

- PC's on each of those to display on large monitors in my SoHo (Home Office) and throughout the house.

- My SoHo of PC/Laptop etc. My wife's SoHo of her companies PC/AIO/iPad and a printer - all of which I keep separate from mine since they're still using Windows 7 and I don't want to infect my stuff.

- A "Media LAN" of over a dozen TVs, BluRays, Streaming Sticks, 26TB NAS, Cable/Satellite TV, game consoles, etc.

- An "IoT LAN" of Alexa devices, Smart bulbs and plugs and whatnot (current count is 40+)

 

My Solutions:

- I took both the camera systems off the "main" network. On each BlueIris server (they're just old Windows PCs) I installed a 2nd NIC. Put the NeighborCAM system all Ethernet with switches only to each other and the Server Primary NIC. Once I installed each camera and updated it's firmware I changed each IP to be APIPA (actually static, not "automatic". BlueIris runs off IPs not MACs). I set the 2nd NIC to a routable 172..x.x.x (Class B) private address. That freed up 30 IPs.

- I put my IoT LAN on a class C 192.168.x.x network. And since nearly ALL of the devices used only 2.4GHz AND required DHCP I put them on a 2nd WAP (Netgear AC1900 model R6900) and turned off the 5GHz radio. *Note: I did this because in the same room I have ANOTHER WAP for my Internal [HomeCAM LAN] Cameras but have it set to ONLY 5GHz and it has the 2.4GHz radio turned off. To be honest, I *could* probably turn on the 5GHz in the AC1900 since there are 4 different, widely separated 40MHz, non-DFS channels (or nine 20MHz channels) and they probably wouldn't interfere, but I thought it easier to keep track of everything this way AND none of the IoT devices are true "media" items, except to stream some music. If needs be though I may turn the 5GHz on in order to clear some of the 2.4GHz channel devices.

- Finally, I made this, X6S AC4000 R8000P an AP and connected all of my Media LAN devices and SoHo stuff to it with Static IPs and subnetted each of those LANs. I still two dozen devices connecting to this WAP (AC4000) but they could all now connect since the IoT stuff was on another completely separate network. 

*Note: I subnetted the 2 SoHO LANs and Media LAN to reduce domain broadcasts and also because I didn't want my main computers to interact with, or be affected by any of the other devices. 

- I set the IoT WAP to Channel 11 since it was the clearest in my neighborhood. I set the Media WAP to Channel 1 (2.4GHz), the 5GHz to 38, and allowed the ability for a "guest" network. But I was certain to UNcheck "Allow guests to see each other and my stuff [sic]". 

**Also Note: WPS has a vulnerability and I would urge you to turn it off as well..

 

Hopefully some of this was helpful.

-Q

========

Model: R8000P|Nighthawk X6S AC4000 Tri Band WiFi Router
Message 3 of 8
labatt
Mentor

Re: Nighthawk R8000P Router QUESTION: LIMIT ON # OF WIFI CONNECTIONS?

Folks seemto be streaching the consumer grade routers and what they can support. 

 

I went toward the commercial side and each of my AP's can support 200 clients. Probably never have that many. Went this route when I got fed up with Netgear firmware issues. Now have great performing never down, no reboots, just works network. Route I took is not for everybody. May need to have some networking experience which I have a lot of. 

Modem CM2050V
Message 4 of 8
LA-Kevin
Aspirant

Re: Nighthawk R8000P Router QUESTION: LIMIT ON # OF WIFI CONNECTIONS?

Hey Thanks so much for your input!  

 

I can definitely understand why you feel I'm likely over-pushing my consumer grade equipment.   I guess it is what it is... (a saying that I traditionally never use!)...  and I'm thinking it's not gonna make any difference if my opinion is that it is the state of technology today that encourages us to incorporate and rely on more and more network-dependent goodies ... and that I'm thinking Netgear and other consumer products should now catch up with their equipment's abilities to keep up.  

 

Until they do...  I guess I AM pushing things.  :-( 

 

QUESTION FOR YOU:  What professional or commercial-grade router equipment have you gone with?   I've had just a "touch" of Cisco training... but that was a long time ago.  I likely can't afford better than my Netgear... but I'd love to know what you went with allowing for 200 devices with no trouble.   

 

THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR INPUT! 

 

LA-Kevin   (in... well, LA!)

 

 

Message 5 of 8
LA-Kevin
Aspirant

Re: Nighthawk R8000P Router QUESTION: LIMIT ON # OF WIFI CONNECTIONS?

DUDE!  

 

I HAVE to salute you, Sir!   (smile)   Amazing response.  I'm brand new to this community forum and was worried that no one would see my question(s) - much less take the time to answer with such helpful information.  I actually feared that I would be ridiculed for the length of my quesion(s) and the level of detail I included.

 

Thank you for not making fun - even if you might have internally in your thoughts! - and I appreciate the HECK out of the effort you put into your reply.  I ate up all the info YOU included.  

 

I will (no doubt) need to go back through with a fine-tooth comb to functionally absorb everything.....  but it will be fun to do my best. 

 

I don't know this site AT ALL...  so I haven't researched whether private messages can be exchanged between people.  (Can messages be sent non-publically?)   Then more importantly than whether it's technically possible.... IF SO...  and if i have any questions about your reply/your setup at home/my understanding of how I might translate what I'm learning into a solution for myself, would you be willing to grant me permission to contact you?  

 

Your answer - no matter what it is - will be perfect and I'll respect. 

 

But for now...  THANKS AGAIN SO MUCH BRO.  You're truly awesome! 

 

LA-Kevin    (Kevin in.... well.... LA!) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Message 6 of 8
LA-Kevin
Aspirant

Re: Nighthawk R8000P Router QUESTION: LIMIT ON # OF WIFI CONNECTIONS?

@microchip8

 

I'm not sure if including the @ plus microchip8 does anything to notify the contributor of my reply but maybe I'll find out here. 

 

I want to thank you for the info on the 32 device limit.   I appreciate you taking the time to help me out with your response.  I will feather this info into an ultimate solution. 

 

Thanks again! 

 

LA-Kevin

 

 

Message 7 of 8

Re: Nighthawk R8000P Router QUESTION: LIMIT ON # OF WIFI CONNECTIONS?

I'd stick with @microchip8;s 32 device limit.

 

Amazon's site claims 55 but netgear's "older" routers have only ever supported 32. The R8000P is enthusiast grade at best. I've only tested mine up to 21 devices concurrently.  

 

If you see yourself needing more, I would move to something pro grade to ensure you are covered.  Same as what others have suggested.

 

 

~Comcast 1 Gbps/50 Mbps SB8200 > R8000P
~R8000P FW:1.4.1.68 ~R7000 FW:1.0.9.42
~R6400 FW:1.0.1.52 ~Orbi-AC3000 FW:2.5.1.8
~EX3700 FW:1.0.0.84

Message 8 of 8
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