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Guru

Re: R7000 latest firmware doesn't support media server


@IrvSp wrote:

I wonder if this is possibly a good enough reason to institute a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT against Netgear? Isn't this an action that one could call 'stealing' by removing FEATURES which we bought and use? Left unchallenged, this will probably be invoked on all the routers with those features.


Well, beyond of removed features there are several standard (and still supported features) badly broken on many Nighthawk, Nighthawk Pro Gaming, and Nighthawk AX models and the Nighthawk App - not for day, no for months and years. Wonder if this can be added to a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT as these are all features and functions documented in the Data Sheets, in the User Manual, in the Netgear Knowledge Base, in Netgear marketing materials?

 

There are customer rights in the EU, in Australia, in Switzerland. Appears we have to talk to our lawyers and get advise.

 

The community members are not much interested in marketing videos, in blogs, in a flood of never ending product re-iterations - as customers and loyal community members trying to help other community members where ever we can.

So please, where are the managers from Netgear CHT in charge for this nightmare to pick this up and provide answers to the customer base now? 

Message 26 of 39
Master

Re: R7000 latest firmware doesn't support media server

Back when I was using a r8000 folks were talking about class action suit due to poor firmware support. As I recall there were also folks talking to the Better Business Bureau California here in the states and one person even posted a letter that you could modify and send to your respective state attorney general. There was also talk back then of a class action lawsuit. As far as I know nothing came of all of that. I quit following when I replaced the r8000 with an Asus rt-ac86u. Ran much better the the r8000, by the way. Still was not getting coverage that I wanted, therefore my current setup. 

--Bill
ISP Comcast, Modem-Netgear CM1150V, Router-Unifi Security Gateway-Pro4, AP-2 Unifi AP-LR
Tesla > Edison
Message 27 of 39
Master

Re: R7000 latest firmware doesn't support media server

@myersw, @schumaku, guys, to me there is a BIG difference between removal (for no stated REQUIRED reason) vs. operational problems.

 

Sure, slow/incomplete/incompetent firmware support can be an issue, but at least there is the 'attempt' to correct the problems. I'd think getting a suit based on that might not meet the standards needed to sue.

 

Removal off ADVERTISED SALE features already included in a product to me is a different story. The ONLY item that could possibly be LEGITIMATELY removed was the BETA NETGEAR DOWNLOADER. That was listed as BETA from day 1. Just like AX and AD devices, some features might not eventually meet the published criteria, and those are usually sold as 'pre-'.

 

Note I said 'LEGITIMATELY removed'. MS 'depricates' functions all the time. Usually replacing it with newer functions that do the same function or when they reach 'End Of Life'. Take the SMB 1 debacle. There was a GOOD reason for doing that. It WAS and IS a SECURITY EXPOSURE. Later SMB releases are secure and can do the SAME function, assuming s/w vendor's use them. Same goes for COMPUTER BROWSER which used SMB 1. No problem with that. MS sort of covered itself by stating if you need it, use it, but you must enable it.

 

Now consider 'parts' NG removed...

  • We have YET to see the real reason. It was mentioned 'low usage' at one time. No proof given. Besides, if I bought the router and one reason was using that feature, do they have the right to pull it?
  • Let us examine DLNA for instance. It was not a Beta, if was a full fledged feature. It was working as far as I can tell. Why was it then removed? Was the code so intertangled with other code it because a causalty because of that (seems to be the case as DarrenM wasn't aware it would be removed)?
  • Worse is the 'solution' provided for those that use the removed features! Need them, use older f/w, WITH the loss of present new and future security fixes...

I for one would like to KNOW the REAL reason here? Licensing fees? Loss of support expertise for those components? Had to go to put in new MONEY MAKING features?

 

I don't know, but to me, 'working on it', even if I don't like what has/is being done in a timeframe, or producing new f/w with some fixes but more breaks, is quite different from REMOVING FEATURES that the h/w sale was based on?

Message 28 of 39
Guide

Re: R7000 latest firmware doesn't support media server

Lawsuits etc.. never go no where, just a waste of time.

I am thinking of flashing the router with tomato, currently downgraded with netgear firmware. I had tomato on an old Asus worked great.

The only real recourse is to avoid netgear in the future, I will avoid netgear, I don't want features I bought just arbitrarily pulled.

Have a good one all
Message 29 of 39
Master

Re: R7000 latest firmware doesn't support media server


@Dansm wrote:
Lawsuits etc.. never go no where, just a waste of time.

I am thinking of flashing the router with tomato, currently downgraded with netgear firmware. I had tomato on an old Asus worked great.

The only real recourse is to avoid netgear in the future, I will avoid netgear, I don't want features I bought just arbitrarily pulled.

Have a good one all

Sure, you can do that.

 

Only thing that bothers me is what is the future? I got a couple of days ago e-mail from ASUS. Looked at a few of the routers:

 

https://store.asus.com/us/item/201806AM130000005 <- No 'added' features (DLNA, TIVO, etc.)

https://store.asus.com/us/item/201511AM040000637 <- Only Time Machine support.

https://store.asus.com/us/item/201605AM040000020 <- No 'added' features (can stream from the cloud but is that DLNA?)

 

Yeah, they have Trend Micro protection buitl-in though.

 

Wondering if that is the way the future is? AiProtection for devices (subscription needed would be a money maker) and everyone is jumping in on the bandwagon? The end-user cost? Loss of features to accomodate the protection in f/w and some money later to keep the protection up?

 

Message 30 of 39
Aspirant

Re: R7000 latest firmware doesn't support media server

The notes for the latest firmware upgrade warned that upgrading would disable some functional including DLNA media player support. So, if you are steaming videos to your Sony PS4 or Networked Blu-ray, DON’T upgrade your firmware ever again.
Model: R7000P|Nighthawk AC2300 Smart WiFi Dual Band Gigabit Router
Message 31 of 39
Guide

Re: R7000 latest firmware doesn't support media server

Originally the upgrade notes did not state that dlna server was discontinued. It was due to this post that netgear later updated the release notes with the info that dlna was no longer supported.

And removing features that the router was sold with and advertised with, while denying security updates to network gear is a cop out.

So your reply to an old thread added nothing to this thread, and actually detracts from its original intent.
Message 32 of 39
Aspirant

Re: R7000 latest firmware doesn't support media server

Netgear could face a class action lawsuit for removing these features and removing the ability to get security updates.

 

Do you have screenshots of the original change logs without that disclaimer about removing features?

 

In a similar situation Sony faced a class action lawsuit for removing the advertised OtherOS feature from PS3 for "security reasons" and lost, paying out nearly $4 million dollars after 8 years of litigation. The case was In re: Sony PS3 “Other OS” Litigation, Case No. 4:10-cv-01811-YGR, in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California.

 

 

Message 33 of 39
Guru

Re: R7000 latest firmware doesn't support media server


@rjsmith2007 wrote:

In a similar situation Sony faced a class action lawsuit for removing the advertised OtherOS feature from PS3 for "security reasons" and lost, paying out nearly $4 million dollars after 8 years of litigation. The case was In re: Sony PS3 “Other OS” Litigation, Case No. 4:10-cv-01811-YGR, in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California.


And what was the result for the PS3 customers? The feature remained removed, and a hand full of Dollars were paid per PS3. This won't buy you a NAS to run e.g. a UPnP AV/DLNA server! That's not what we're behind, isn't it? We expect continuous, same lifetime security updates for the "older" version - as this is the official answer on how to keep the features. 

 

The reason why this Sony case was turned to money? US lawyers are paid based on the money flowing, not on features. So a pure nonsense. Most class actions end in that way, and they are ruining US business: Look what happened to the General Aviation aircraft industry in the US in the last 30 years.

Message 34 of 39
Master

Re: R7000 latest firmware doesn't support media server

@schumaku 

Very well said. I have been a consumer in a couple of class action suits. Largest I ever got was less then $3.00. I suspect Netgear is safe from litigation due to the small number of boxes. I suspect it would take a crusading lawyer that would take it on for no fee to make it happen. 

 

I agree with you about the US, that is where I live if you had not figured it out. We are overrun with lawyers and they all want to make lots of money. We have 3 seperate law firms here in Detroit area that are making lots of money off of accidents. Some are crooked and refer client to a questionable doctor of some kind who then diagnoses problem that does not really exist and away they go after the insurance companies. One insurance company has been fighting them and taking them to court. 

--Bill
ISP Comcast, Modem-Netgear CM1150V, Router-Unifi Security Gateway-Pro4, AP-2 Unifi AP-LR
Tesla > Edison
Message 35 of 39
Master

Re: R7000 latest firmware doesn't support media server


@rjsmith2007 wrote:

Netgear could face a class action lawsuit for removing these features and removing the ability to get security updates.

 

Do you have screenshots of the original change logs without that disclaimer about removing features?

 


They are all on the Netgear Support site, and for ALL the routers they've removed this from. All you need do is look at the DOWNLOADS, open the PRIOR VERSIONS, and also on each version, see the README's.

 

However, as said before, little could be gained... some pittance of money, not enough to replace the router, and then you'd probably still not see f/w with fixes that keep the features. Waste of time, but some Class Action lawyer could probably see some large sum of money to be made?

 

Best thing to do, run, do not walk, to another vendor. I replaced my R8000 with a TP-Link A20. Lower cost than the R8000, 2 year support warranty, and it just works. No degradation of the Internet with BOTH QoS and Traffic Monitor enabled. You couldn't do that with NG routers. Also includes 3 years FREE of Trend Micro (like NG's use of Armour, free for 90 days).

 

Netgear's attention is elsewhere. No caring about the quality of the firmware released, and looking for more money streams (Armour) to feed its coffers.  Support, if you can call it that, a joke... how long have multiple routers have the same exact problems, losing SSID's, Internet, Access Control list errors, etc.???

 

This forum is quite busy with problems. Check out TP-Links... like the Maytag repairman over there... less than 4 or 5 a DAY... and moderator's that actually assist and also CONTACT and get info from Support for you. Moderator's that ask you to send THEN via e-mail info to contact support  with. Hardly any LONG threads over there too. Check it out.

 

Message 36 of 39
Master

Re: R7000 latest firmware doesn't support media server

@myersw,

 

Bill, Class Action suits are a money maker for the Lawyer. The get to certify a 'class' and it usually is initiated by one or more clients. Then they go to fill the class out via mailings from a list of 'users/owners' they get from the one being sued or postings/tv advertising. Once they have enough off to court. The if they win, the judge will have to approve the settlement. Lawyer (or firm) gets paid first, costs and fees, the rest divided amoung the class, and this isn't done in a matter of weeks either.

 

Remember who we worked for, and how they 'stole' the Pension by cutting off the dates and changing some parameters. Class action time. The main 2 people initiating it got some real money as the company was found liable. Law firm was paid handsomely and the rest put into a trust fund, me, I get less than a meal's value at McDonalds per month added to my pension. Not even CLOSE to what I lost when they changed 'rules'.

 

Wouldn't expect much from a suit here either, but it would cost NG some dollars. I am sure they were aware of this when they made the decision. Probably some 'bean counter' was able to prove the income from Armour would more than offset any loss to a lawsuit.

Message 37 of 39
Master

Re: R7000 latest firmware doesn't support media server

@IrvSp 

I remember. At least you and I have have a pension. Most don't anymore. 

 

You reminded me of one of the big three here had a windshield wipper problem that they were trying to figure out if they should do a recall. Bean counters figured out there would be more accidents of folks driving to dealership then there would be with the faulty wipers. Love bean counters. 

--Bill
ISP Comcast, Modem-Netgear CM1150V, Router-Unifi Security Gateway-Pro4, AP-2 Unifi AP-LR
Tesla > Edison
Message 38 of 39
Aspirant

Re: R7000 latest firmware doesn't support media server

I'm not surprised they're giving up on the built-in DLNA server.  My music and video files were handled just fine under Plex, Windows 10, and UMS.  [Except for transcoding FLAC files].  I copied my files to the Nighthawk's DLNA server.  For whatever reason, it shows no JPG images for any of the movies.  It miscategorized albums, listing many as "Unknown."  For example, Blood Sweat and Tears Greatest Hits, no matter what I have done, is still "Unknown."  I have rebuilt the ".ReadyDLNA" directory several times, trying various things, without any improvement.  The code is not ready for prime time, IMO, and probably will never be.  Good riddance?

Model: R7500v2|Nighthawk X4 AC2350 Smart WiFi
Message 39 of 39
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