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Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.

radon85
Guide

Readyshare not working Windows 10.

I'm tired of waiting on the SMB1 fix.  Am I missing something or wouldn't it be easier if Netgear simply added support for an additional user (other than guest and admin)?

Message 1 of 24

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radon85
Guide

Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.

For what it's worth, I have submitted a proposal.  link

 

I'd like to thank IrvSp for all his valuable input and prior work!

View solution in original post

Message 24 of 24

All Replies

Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.

ReadySHARE works fine here.

 

No messing around with SMB.

 

Not all routers are born equal. You might get better answers if you told people what your router is.

 

What firmware version do you have on this unnamed device?

 

A number is more useful than "the latest". (It may not be by the time people read this.) There can also be newer versions, or "hot fixes", that do not show up if you check for new firmware in the browser interface.

 

Message 2 of 24
radon85
Guide

Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.

I suggest searching the community help for "SMB1" if you wish to learn about the issue.  I'm simply asking whether support for another user would be a faster/easier way to work around the problem.  i.e. it seems the complexities in the SMB1 fix is taking years to address, while adding support for an additional user could be done relatively quickly.

Message 3 of 24
IrvSp
Master

Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.


@radon85 wrote:

I'm tired of waiting on the SMB1 fix.  Am I missing something or wouldn't it be easier if Netgear simply added support for an additional user (other than guest and admin)?


There is NO SMB1 fix, not from NG, and MS has already made its fix as far as security goes. SMB 1 is old, uses NETBIOS and Computer Browser. MS has depricated SMB 1 and along with that the Computer Browser. NG aleardy has many routers (you didn't specify what router you have by the way) running SMB 2 and 3. What NG has to do is enable and use the WSD protocol for sharing, and they have NO PLANS to do that.

 

Not even sure what you are asking for? Additional User? I suspect you mean another set of SSID's? Why would that be 'simple' and provide any protection? How will that solve anything or have anything to do with SMB 1 needed for sharing?

Message 4 of 24
bobsmith123456
Aspirant

Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.

the reply pages jumps around too much for me to type any of that info in. it flies all over the place when i try to enter it.

 

the attempted firmware updates always came back as "no firmware update needed" or something to that effect.

 

router = netgear R6220

 

believe it or not i've picked thru enuf of this to actually get most of everything figured out and working

 

the one thing that eluded me for another couple days was why i couldn't get data on/ off that usb i had stuck in the back of the router

 

finally, a few minutes ago, it occured to me to just go grab a new usb out of my stash

 

i unplugged the one i'd been using, stuck the new one in and the whole thing woke up instantly

 

wether or not it was the act of reinserting or the previous usb itself is actually bad, that first usb is going right into the crusher

 

not taking any chances with it again, even tho it works at other times....

 

most of this whole struggle has boiled down to simple errors like that. getting too caught up with settings, etc. when it was stuff like cable connections, basic rebootings and a bad usb that seemed to be most of the problem....

 

the other stuff seems to have fallen into place for now, as the usb access was just about the final problem i think i had....

 

regardless, thank you for your response on how to actually reply during efforts like this....

Message 5 of 24
radon85
Guide

Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.

My understanding is that insecure guest logins have been disabled; see link.  As an admin, I have no issue accessing the share.  However, my users are unable to access the share as a guest.  Since "admin"/password works but "guest" (with no password) appear to be an issue, I'm simply suggesting support for an alternate user account with a password; e.g. "user"/password.  This "user " account would simply provide access to the share as "guest" did in the past; it would not allow allow the user to log into the router.

Message 6 of 24
IrvSp
Master

Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.


@radon85 wrote:

My understanding is that insecure guest logins have been disabled; see link.  As an admin, I have no issue accessing the share.  However, my users are unable to access the share as a guest.  Since "admin"/password works but "guest" (with no password) appear to be an issue, I'm simply suggesting support for an alternate user account with a password; e.g. "user"/password.  This "user " account would simply provide access to the share as "guest" did in the past; it would not allow allow the user to log into the router.


Nice link,  you might notice I was active in there too (2018-02-01 10:04 AM on....).

 

You are confusing a few things... Guest Network on the router and Guest access to a share under W10 PC attached to a LAN.

 

My R8000 is not active right now, but the GUEST SSID has the capability to be isolated from YOUR LAN. There is a ALLOW setting if I'm remembering correctly you have to check. In that case, Guests will have COMPLETE access to everything the NORMAL (your word is ADMIN it seems) can access, all SHARES on ANY device as well as the USB drive on the router.

 

Of course, this might not be what you want. However, the PC's that have shares can be set to only allow share access via UID and PC.

Message 7 of 24
IrvSp
Master

Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.


@radon85 wrote:

My understanding is that insecure guest logins have been disabled; see link.  As an admin, I have no issue accessing the share.  However, my users are unable to access the share as a guest.  Since "admin"/password works but "guest" (with no password) appear to be an issue, I'm simply suggesting support for an alternate user account with a password; e.g. "user"/password.  This "user " account would simply provide access to the share as "guest" did in the past; it would not allow allow the user to log into the router.


Oh, by the way, look at this MS link, https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4046019/guest-access-in-smb2-disabled-by-default-in-windows... and from it:

 

========


In Windows 10, version 1709, Windows 10, version 1903, Windows Server, version 1709, Windows  Server, version 1903, and later versions of Windows, the SMB2 client no longer allows the following actions:
 
  • Guest account access to a remote server
  • Fallback to the Guest account after invalid credentials are provided
SMBv2 has the following behavior in these versions of Windows:
  • Windows 10 Enterprise and Windows 10 Education no longer allow a user to connect to a remote share by using guest credentials by default, even if the remote server requests guest credentials.
  • Windows Server 2016 Datacenter and Standard edition no longer allow a user to connect to a remote share by using guest credentials by default, even if the remote server requests guest credentials.
  • Windows 10 Home and Professional editions are unchanged from their previous default behavior.
If you try to connect to devices that request credentials of a guest instead of appropriate authenticated principals, you may receive the following error message: 
 
=====================
 
Again, the credentials are from Windows to a Windows Server, not router. Guest Credentials usually means no USERID or PASSWORD in this context, that is anyone can access the server.
 
Probably most of us run W10 Home or Pro if using Windows (older version did not have this change), so it wouldn't be part of your problems either.

 

 

Message 8 of 24
radon85
Guide

Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.

Well I'm confused by the responses, so you may be right.  😉

 

I'm talking about ethernet access over the LAN to readyshare on the router; no SSID involved.  When a user attempts to mount the \\readyshare\folder, Windows prompts for username/password.  Entering admin/password works; entering guest with no password does not.

 

Several readyshare folders are set up.  An ADMIN folder for admin only access; an RO folder for readonly access by "All - no password" (i.e. guests), and an RW folder for full access by guests.

 

This used to work for guests.  Now it does not.  If guest without password is the problem, then a "user" account with a password would seem to be an alternative.

 

When I mount the drive as "admin", I provide the admin password assigned to the router.  Thus, if the router also supported a "user" account, then the users could mount the drive as "user" and provide the user password assigned to the router.

 

Does this make sense?

Message 9 of 24
IrvSp
Master

Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.

OK, more clarity in what you want to do.

 

I've got my USB drive set up with TWO shares. The share for the ROOT of the drive with is P/W protected but has access to the entire drive. In that drive I have a folder on the root called SHARE and a sub-folder in it called VIDEO which contains many sub-folders of ripped DVD's, that \SHARE\VIDEO is NOT P/W protected. So I now have 2 sharenames for the USB drive, \\R8000 which is the root (192.168.1.1) and \\R8000\SHARE.

 

Now on my PC only is a Credentiai for the Router (192.168.1.1) that contains the UID and P/W for the router \\R8000 share. My PC has complete access to the drive, however, other PC's and devices don't as they don't know the UID and PW. Now I'm using DLNA Server on the router and therefore the \\R8000\SHARE since it has NO CREDENTIALS needed can be used by the SmartTV's to show the DVD's as can a DLNA Client on the PC's, Phones, and iPad's. I think you might have been asking how to do that (Read the Manual as well).

Message 10 of 24
radon85
Guide

Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.

My understanding is the DLNA is only readonly access of media files.  I have both readonly and readwrite shares needing access to all files (not just media files).

 

My real interest here is whether my proposal is reasonable? 

1) If the guest account was replaced with a "user" account that has a password, then users could access shares by entering the credentials (and SMB1 would no longer be the issue; just as SMB1 does not seem to be an issue with admin/pw).

2) In your opinion, would you agree this would be easier to address than whatever issues remain with trying to address SMB1?

 

If so, what's the best way to get Netgear's attention?  e.g. is there someone in the community that has some leverage with them?

 

Message 11 of 24
IrvSp
Master

Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.

Let us make this easy.

 

First, what you want to do can't be done now... that is 3 different levels of access... ADMIN with ALL, USER with some (w/pw) and Guest with less access and no pw.

 

Present design allows 2 choices, p/w protect or not.

 

You are looking for a function that most FTP sites would have, a user name and password restricting access to specific folder.

 

There IS a SUGGESTION area in this site,  https://community.netgear.com/t5/Idea-Exchange-For-Home/idb-p/idea-exchange-for-home, but I would hold my breathe on any progress or even an answer. Seems to almost be 'black hole' (https://community.netgear.com/t5/Idea-Exchange-For-Home/A-great-idea-Act-Upon-Ideas/idi-p/1774561#M2... ).

 

Only NG people here have an 'N' icon on the name, all others are plain old end-users like you.

 

Bottom line, 2 types of USB accounts, one with a p/w and the other with none. The one with the p/w you can set to be the entire drive and read/write access to it. Others, by share name you can assign with no p/w to specific folders (or sub-folders) on the drive. So you have have \\drivename\pictures, \\drivename\movies, \\drivename\games, \\drivename\programs, etc., but there would be no restriction to access.

 

If all you want it an FTP style, then use FTP for the USB drive. You never mentioned your Router, so find the MANUAL in SUPPORT above and read it how to set up FTP. The implementation though is just like normal sharing. That is only 2 types, protected by p/w or not. I guess you could create as many different protected shares as you wanted, but only tell the one you want to use a specific share the share name and p/w. Of course, that might be totally useless as they would ALL have the same p/w (see, even to implement your 'suggestion' one might need X users, not just one, depending on how many different 'people' you wanted to support) and anyone with some level of knowledge how to see shares (like use Windows Explorer) could see all of them and by 'luck' try the same p/w and get in.

 

By the way, most residential routers operate like this. My old ASUS does, the NG R8000 and R7000 does, and in an even worse setup, my Archer A20 does (worse that is has ONE share name for both USB drives).

 

 

Message 12 of 24
radon85
Guide

Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.

I would keep it at 2 levels of access; i.e. root and non-root, where non-root supports "user"/pw.  And while I have no interest in guest access, I expect Netgear would likely continue to support it for backward compatibility; i.e. users could connect with "user"/pw -or- if they're not running into the SMB1 guest issue, they could connect using "guest" without password.

 

Thanks for the links, once this thread goes dormant I'll go ahead and submit something and we'll see what happens.

 

I have little concern regarding the "user" password being leaked; i.e. it's simply a replacement for the guest access which does not have one.

 

However, having said that, I would still like to be able to set the user password and be able to disable the "guest" access; i.e. while a shared password is poor security, I'd consider it a step above no password.

 

Message 13 of 24
IrvSp
Master

Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.

You are STILL confused over SMB 1 and Guest it seems:

 


@radon85 wrote:

if they're not running into the SMB1 guest issue, they could connect using "guest" without password.

 


There is NO 'guest' and SMB 1 problem. Read the links I posted about this above. This is for access to a Windows Server that it was changed.

 

The 'Guest' SSID can access the USB drive IF given LAN access, not just Internet (via a router setting), but due to Windows 10, will need to be running SMB 1. Another thing, once any W10 PC connects to your LAN, if they are not running SMB 1 as well, you may lost Sharing capability with the router and other PC's... just the way that MS has created the problem with depricating SMB 1 while some installations of W10 require it and the Computer Browser operating with NETBIOS.

Message 14 of 24
radon85
Guide

Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.

I've read them plenty. Would you prefer "deprecated SMB1 guest issue", or how would you prefer I concisely phrase the root cause?

Message 15 of 24
radon85
Guide

Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.

Hmm, I just noticed you again said "Guest" SSID.  So again I must repeat that I'm not interested in the Guest SSID.  I'm simply refering to the "guest" account with no password that is used to access readyshare over the LAN; i.e. hardwired ethernet; no wireless involved.

Message 16 of 24
IrvSp
Master

Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.

'Guest' and 'SMB 1' have no concept of any relationship or problem in what you were asking for.

 

Guest means 2 different things in this discussion.

 

  1. Guest is a set of 2 or 3 SSID's depending on the router that can be isolated from the LAN if one wishes.
  2. In Windows parlance it is a PC that can connect to a Server without credentials and have some level of access.

You are confusing #2 with a problem that doesn't exist on the router. Probably because SMB 1 must be running on the Client device in order to use shares from the router.

Message 17 of 24
radon85
Guide

Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.

I'm glad you understand that I am talking about #2; the Windows 10 clients are not running SMB1.

 

As you state "Probably because SMB 1 must be running on the Client device in order to use shares from the router."

 

However, these clients do connect when using the admin/pw credentials.  They only fail to connect when using the guest UID with no password.  The lack of SMB1 does not appear to affect the admin access.  Thus, your above statement appears to only be about SMB1 and guest access.

 

The issue you had earlier seemed to be with my verbage of "SMB1 guest issue".   Since even your above statement clarifies the issue by mentioning SMB1, I assume there is some symantic change you'd like to see when referring to this particular problem.

 

So I'll again ask if you have some other concise phrase you would prefer to see when refering to #2 as the root cause of the failed guest logins? 

 

For example, "deprecated SMB1 guest issue"; i.e. this conveys the fact that the issue was caused by the deprecation of SMB1 in Windows 10.

 

Message 18 of 24
Dawng
Aspirant

Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.

I enabled SMB1 in windows features on the Windows 10 laptop and now I can see all my network computers again and the readyshare. I mapped the readyshare drive. It all works great. I'm using the readyshare on an AC2100 router that is running as a AP. My main router is R8000P.

Message 19 of 24
radon85
Guide

Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.

Dawng, Thanks for your response.  Yes you can do that, but it does open you up to security issues.  The point of this thread is to collect input on an alternate solution that I believe would be easy for Netgear to implement.  Then based on the feedback, I plan to submit a proposal soon.

Message 20 of 24
Dawng
Aspirant

Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.

I understand that it's a security risk. I would love to find an alternate way to accomplish this but after wasting the whole day searching and trying people's ideas I had to get into my harddrive. I was trying to help other desperate people. Of course I could have pulled it off the router and plugged it into a computer, which is where I used to have one before I thought this way would be a good idea. I guess I picked up the wrong thread. Thank you for understanding.

Message 21 of 24
IrvSp
Master

Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.


@radon85 wrote:

The point of this thread is to collect input on an alternate solution that I believe would be easy for Netgear to implement.  Then based on the feedback, I plan to submit a proposal soon.


I guess you miss the point of the responses here too? See mine starting @ 2019-12-16 03:59 AM for instance.

 

I went round and round with Netgear Support on this issue for many many months. Even with the Moderator's here. Support would close my case often stating the router was working correctly. Moderator's would re-open it, and the same circle of comments with the same result. FINAL result (the point I gave up at after months of this):

 

  • NG routers ARE running SMB 3 (mostly).
  • SMB 3 alone doesn't 'cut it', they have to be exposed to the LAN (read that as WSD must be implented as well in the router).
  • For the R7000 and R8000 at least WSD is not implemented. Only sharing method is NETBIOS which requires SMB 1.
  • There is NO design for WSD in some routers.
  • Support will not IMPLEMENT WSD in those routers without a design and spec for it.
  • NG will not design and spec. WSD for those routers that do not have it.
  • They WILL buy back MY router IF under the 1 year warranty (to make me go away I guess).
  • NG is NOT alone in this situation. Probably all other routers produced before MS  deprecating/removal of SMB 1 have this same problem.
  • Some MFG's have PUBLICALLY stated you MUST run SMB 1 with the router they sell.

If you think you can do better, go for it, but I would expect to be able to 'move a mountain'. As it stands now, NG is removing functions from the routers that sort of make the USB port an artifact. No TIVO, DLNA, or TIME MACHINE support. Some MFG's also have removed the Printer from being used with the USB port.

 

On the otherhand, with today's A/V's and Firewall's, if kept current, the threat of someone attacking SMB 1 is lessened. MFG's are also including Security s/w in the routers too, although from my experience with a router that has that and when the device's Norton 360 report are quite different. Probably router bases Security is a weak sister to device based Security based on execution, not where the TCP/IP packets come from, but what the device does with those packets after they are assembled.

 

Again, GOOD LUCK... with a company that can't seem to even produce a stable firmware with 'fixes', much less add a function and have it work right out of the box.

Message 22 of 24
radon85
Guide

Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.

IrvSp,

 

Yes, I understand the battles and the headwinds.  And I appreciate all the effort put forth beforehand.  I'm simply looking to take a different approach and hoping it might be fruitful.  Organizations like low hanging fruit and I believe this may be an easy way to workaround the issue.  For a small amount of effort they could eliminate a problem with their customer base.  Whether it is pursued is dependent upon how big of an issue it is with current customers and the direction of the marketing roadmap.  Thanks again for the input.

Message 23 of 24
radon85
Guide

Re: Readyshare not working Windows 10.

For what it's worth, I have submitted a proposal.  link

 

I'd like to thank IrvSp for all his valuable input and prior work!

Message 24 of 24
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