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Router and Access Point

dd_88
Aspirant

Router and Access Point

So I have the newst Comcast modem (TG3482G) which is a modem/router combo and I have a Nighthawk R9000. I want the Comcast modem/router combo to send a WiFi signal to the downstairs, and I want the Nighthawk set in access point mode to send a WiFi signal upstairs, for the Comcast one is not strong enough to cover both neither is the R9000.

 

Now when you set up the Nighthawk in access point mode you type in you SSID and password from the one given by comcast and it then suggest that you disable the WiFi on the comcast router so it doesn't interfear with the Nighthawks access point.

 

My question is why do I have to turn off my Comcast's WiFi, other then "it will just interfear"? When you set the Nighthawk into access point mode it disables the routers functions, so what is the interfearance? Why cant I have both enabled? I need both inorder to cover my whole house (range extendes don't do the job).

 

I expercenced the consiqueses by having both WiFi's enabled and something happens behind the sence causes the WiFi to jam and not work in total. I assume both decives tried to hand out the same IP or somthing and just caused a jam?

 

Shouldn't you be able to have Comcast be the main router that send out a WiFi signal, and have an access point connected via ethernet to "extend" the signal in a different area, so its almost like one big mesh network that people can go from room to room and roam with easy? If so how? In addition I have a second R9000 which I would like to use in my basement in access point mode, how can I add this to the mix without jamming eveything up?

Model: R9000|Nighthawk X10 AD7200 Smart WiFi Router
Message 1 of 14

Accepted Solutions

Re: Router and Access Point


@dd_88 wrote:

If I change the channel could I keep the same SSID and password?

 

 


You could try that. If it works, great. Problem solved.

 

However, whatever you do as they move around wifi clients have to "forget" one connection and then move on to another one.

 

Most of my wifi clients happily handover between sources without me noticing. (I have two separate networks in the house and in my separate office.) I use different SSIDs so that I know which one I am connected to. I use the same password because it is easier to remember.

 

In effect, it all comes down to the abilities of the wifi clients. You make it harder for them if you have two different sources on the same wavelength and with the same SSID.

 

 

 

 

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V

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Message 6 of 14

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schumaku
Guru

Re: Router and Access Point

Just configure the R9000 as a (Ethernet LAN connected) wired Wirelss Access point with the very same Wi-Fi config you have on your primary ISP router.

Message 2 of 14
dd_88
Aspirant

Re: Router and Access Point

I did that as stated in the 2nd paragraph, it was setup in access point mode with the same SSID and passwords as the promary ISP router. And with both having WiFi enabled it caused the jam, I had to turn off the primary ISP's router's WiFi off as Netgear suggested. But I need both on without it jamming the WiFi.

Message 3 of 14

Re: Router and Access Point


@dd_88 wrote:

And with both having WiFi enabled it caused the jam...

 


What does that mean?

 

If you have two wifi sources with the same login credentials on the same wifi bands, then you must expect interference. It is how radio works.

 

Try different wifi bands and/or different SSIDs. You cab  use the same password.

 

Decent wifi clients will automatically switch between the SSIDs as stuff moves around the place.

 

 

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V
Message 4 of 14
dd_88
Aspirant

Re: Router and Access Point

When I say "jam" basically what happens so the WiFi is working as normal, but at one point in time the WiFi just stops moving no traffic in or out, the only way to resolve this is to restart the nighthawk. I can only assume that the gateways router and the nighthawk router are trying to give/recive the same infomation from one decive and the routers are fighting over the information causing the traffic to stop completly until rebot.

 

I was woundering how to get around that.

 

I will try the two things you have suggested another thing I was reading when searching is to change the channel of the nighthwak. If I change the channel could I keep the same SSID and password?

 

 

Message 5 of 14

Re: Router and Access Point


@dd_88 wrote:

If I change the channel could I keep the same SSID and password?

 

 


You could try that. If it works, great. Problem solved.

 

However, whatever you do as they move around wifi clients have to "forget" one connection and then move on to another one.

 

Most of my wifi clients happily handover between sources without me noticing. (I have two separate networks in the house and in my separate office.) I use different SSIDs so that I know which one I am connected to. I use the same password because it is easier to remember.

 

In effect, it all comes down to the abilities of the wifi clients. You make it harder for them if you have two different sources on the same wavelength and with the same SSID.

 

 

 

 

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V

View solution in original post

Message 6 of 14
dd_88
Aspirant

Re: Router and Access Point

Okay I will try this when I return home, will follow up at a later date for I dont know when the problem occurs it happens randomly.

 

But leading off what you said I am having trouble understanding the purpose of an SSID now. I always interperted the SSID as just a label you give the router/access point for the user to know what they are conneting to and for the client to give it a more readable name. How does changing the SSID allow WiFi clients to seamlessy connect without interfearance? Would the wavelength not be the only determinate that causes the issue, not the SSID for the clients don't care what the SSID is?

 

Sorry for being a nucence, just trying to understand better, and when I called Netgear the man wasn't much help he just told me to buy Orbi, but I'm trying to learn :/

Message 7 of 14
schumaku
Guru

Re: Router and Access Point

Well, many consumer devices don't support seamless roaming, e.g. supported by 802.11k (information list about neighboring AP channel and more) and 802.11r (Fast Basic Service Set Transition, FT). All this can work efficiently only if the same SSID is configured on all radio access points (router, WAP, ...). If some of these standards are in place, the industry does lazily define this as a wireless "Mesh" network.

 

Without this technology, and when using different SSID, a client will try to stick as long as possible to that SSID, and not roam to a nearer, much better AP.

Message 8 of 14

Re: Router and Access Point


@dd_88 wrote:

I always interperted the SSID as just a label you give the router/access point for the user to know what they are conneting to and for the client to give it a more readable name. How does changing the SSID allow WiFi clients to seamlessy connect without interfearance? Would the wavelength not be the only determinate that causes the issue, not the SSID for the clients don't care what the SSID is?

 

Wifi clients connect to wifi hosts by latching on to the address and let you in with the right password.

 

The wifi source broadcasts its SSID so that wifi clients can  see it. (You can also hide the SSID, but if you still know the SSID you can still connect to it.)

 

How do you expect your wifi clients to tell one wifi source from another of every source puts out the same name?

 

The interference may also be between two different wifi sources on exactly the same wavelength. What if every radio station broadcast on the same wavelength? Chaos.

 

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V
Message 9 of 14
schumaku
Guru

Re: Router and Access Point


@michaelkenward wrote:

How do you expect your wifi clients to tell one wifi source from another of every source puts out the same name?


By BSSID and backing information tables built on the wireless client, on more sophisticated AP or consumer WiFi Mesh devices assisted by 802.11k, 802.11r, and sometimes 802.11r.

 


@michaelkenward wrote:

The interference may also be between two different wifi sources on exactly the same wavelength. What if every radio station broadcast on the same wavelength? Chaos.


Not that bad, but not ideal - there is however not much of a choice: The number of available channels is much to low. Sophisticated home and business class (typically dozens to hundreds of WiFi clients in the range of multiple APs) or large venue public WiFi installations designed for the-thousands of clients have many many AP operating on the same channel sets.

 

Here at home, the average WiFi client does see about 10 different radios on air on both 2.4 and 5 GHz.

 

 

Message 10 of 14
dd_88
Aspirant

Re: Router and Access Point



Not that bad, but not ideal - there is however not much of a choice: The number of available channels is much to low. Sophisticated home and business class (typically dozens to hundreds of WiFi clients in the range of multiple APs) or large venue public WiFi installations designed for the-thousands of clients have many many AP operating on the same channel sets.

 

Here at home, the average WiFi client does see about 10 different radios on air on both 2.4 and 5 GHz.

 

 


Going off of this, the R8000 (just realized I've put this under R9000 but I have an R8000) only support 802.11ac, and since it does not support 802.11k and or 802.11r, the R8000 cannot be settup as an access point with the same SSID and password to create one large WiFi network that works like a "mesh" network that these large venues / business have?

 

I am basically trying to create a network like you'd see in a business or large venue where you see dozens of access points all with the same SSID and password so a client can go anywhere in the venue and be connected without this interfearance jamming the network. Is this not possible with the R8000?

Message 11 of 14

Re: Router and Access Point


@dd_88 wrote:

 

I am basically trying to create a network like you'd see in a business or large venue where you see dozens of access points all with the same SSID and password so a client can go anywhere in the venue and be connected without this interfearance jamming the network.


Ah, so now we know what you are trying to achieve.

 

You are attempting to create an "industry" application with consumer kit.

 

The nearest thing to what you want is probably the Orbi stuff. Its implementation uses single SSIDs and passwords and handles the handover stuff internally. It even manages to avoid trhe interference that bugs you.

 

You just set up one thing and the rest looks after itself. Not cheap, but easy and expandable.

 

 

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V
Message 12 of 14
myersw
Master

Re: Router and Access Point

@michaelkenward id giving you the best Netgear consumer grade routers. 

I suspect the venues you are thinking about have gone the next level up from consumer grade. My network is expandable with AP's as many as I want, with in reason of course, but it is not consumer grade. Does require Ethernet cables run to the AP's. 

 

 

--Bill
ISP Comcast, Modem-Netgear CM1150V, Router-Unifi Security Gateway-Pro4, AP-2 Unifi AP-LR
Tesla > Edison
Message 13 of 14
dd_88
Aspirant

Re: Router and Access Point

Makes sense will look into Orbi. But as for the R8000 is that basically dust now? There isn't a way to make just one R8000 as an access point, with same SSID/password as the gateway with having both the gateway and R8000 WiFi bands on at the same time to create one seamless WiFi that clients can auto-switch when in range of the stronger WiFi?

 

How would I do the above, because I would hate to not use the R8000, would I do one of the following? A combo of both? Or something else? Or just put the R8000 in storage?

 

Ex 1: I will set gateway router's SSID as "Home100-Downstairs" and the R8000's SSID (in access point mode) as "Home100-Upstairs" with the same password.

 

Ex 2: Same as example 1 but with the same SSID, yet the R8000 is on a different channel as the gateways router.

Message 14 of 14
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