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WAC104 and Apple Airplay Clients

jtsaox
Tutor

WAC104 and Apple Airplay Clients

I am using both an R7000 WiFi router and a WAC104 in wireless access point mode to supplement coverage in my home.  I currently have everything (except a single Apple Airplay Client-an Apple Airport Express in client mode) connected, either wirelessly or wired to the main LAN, which connects to the R7000.  The Apple Airport Express in question is connected via WiFi to the WAC104 and also connects to the main LAN via wired ethernet.  The Airport Express shows up as a wired client on the R7000 admin page. 

 

I am having a problem that iTunes and Airfoil, run on PCs on the main LAN cannot detect the Airport Express client that is connected to the WAC104.

 

I believe the problem may have to do with the bonjour protocol and certain types of broadcast traffic, perhaps with a TTL (time-to-live) parameter set to 1, which gets decremented when passing through the WAC104.

 

For some reason, my iPhone 8 CAN detect all of the airplay clients when connected via WiFi to the R7000.  But again, PCs cannot.

 

Has anyone else experienced this problem?  Is there a way to get this to work?  I am not really seeing any options on the various admin menus of either the WAC104 or the R7000 to get this to work.

Message 1 of 11
schumaku
Guru

Re: WAC104 and Apple Airplay Clients


@jtsaox wrote:

The Apple Airport Express in question is connected via WiFi to the WAC104 and also connects to the main LAN via wired ethernet. 


This is the only problem in your set-up! Apple does nowhere suggest to connect such a device to a single network using both the wired LAN and the wireless client concurrently. Remove the WiFi client configuration from your Airport Express and the red herring will be gone.

 


@jtsaox wrote:

The Airport Express shows up as a wired client on the R7000 admin page. 


Perfectly correct - regardless if the AE does use the LAN connection or the WiFi client connection to the WAC104 - in either case the AE MAC addresses are showing up on the wired side. There is no "magic" in the Netgear Genie on the router and the WAC allowing to present a unified network view.

Hint: You might consider to re-configure the Airport Express as an additional wireless access point to to enhance the wireless coverage. This would be a valid use case.


@jtsaox wrote:

I I am not really seeing any options on the various admin menus of either the WAC104 or the R7000 to get this to work.

Nothing the network infrastructure can do to fix the misconception in your network configuration. Luckily, the AE does not play as bad as some other vendor devices (hint: Sonos) do when set-up the same way - what does lead to a network loop there, what consumer routers/switches/access points can't handle properly - and the network performance goes down to almost null.

Regards,

-Kurt.

Message 2 of 11
jtsaox
Tutor

Re: WAC104 and Apple Airplay Clients


@schumaku wrote:

@jtsaox wrote:

The Apple Airport Express in question is connected via WiFi to the WAC104 and also connects to the main LAN via wired ethernet. 


This is the only problem in your set-up! Apple does nowhere suggest to connect such a device to a single network using both the wired LAN and the wireless client concurrently. Remove the WiFi client configuration from your Airport Express and the red herring will be gone.

 

Sorry for the confusion, but the Airport Express is only connected via WiFi to the WAC104.  Because the WAC104 is connected via ethernet cable to the home LAN, the A/E shows up as a wired client on the R7000.  The A/E is NOT connected with an ethernet cable to the main LAN.  I think the way I described the setup may have been confusing.

 


@jtsaox wrote:

The Airport Express shows up as a wired client on the R7000 admin page. 


Perfectly correct - regardless if the AE does use the LAN connection or the WiFi client connection to the WAC104 - in either case the AE MAC addresses are showing up on the wired side. There is no "magic" in the Netgear Genie on the router and the WAC allowing to present a unified network view.

Hint: You might consider to re-configure the Airport Express as an additional wireless access point to to enhance the wireless coverage. This would be a valid use case.


@jtsaox wrote:

I I am not really seeing any options on the various admin menus of either the WAC104 or the R7000 to get this to work.

Nothing the network infrastructure can do to fix the misconception in your network configuration. Luckily, the AE does not play as bad as some other vendor devices (hint: Sonos) do when set-up the same way - what does lead to a network loop there, what consumer routers/switches/access points can't handle properly - and the network performance goes down to almost null.

Regards,

-Kurt.


 

Message 3 of 11
jtsaox
Tutor

Re: WAC104 and Apple Airplay Clients

Please see embedded response in previous post - had problems quoting

Message 4 of 11
schumaku
Guru

Re: WAC104 and Apple Airplay Clients


@jtsaox wrote:

Because the WAC104 is connected via ethernet cable to the home LAN, the A/E shows up as a wired client on the R7000. 


Yes, perfectly correct.

 

@jtsaox wrote:

Sorry for the confusion, but the Airport Express is only connected via WiFi to the WAC104. ...  The A/E is NOT connected with an ethernet cable to the main LAN. 

OK. So the AE is not becoming visible to Airplay clients,,,

 

  • connected wireless to the WAC104, and/or
  • connected wireless to the R7000, and/or
  • wired direct to the R7000?

Not the first time Netgear has issues with blocking some kind of Multicast traffic (Bonjour is not IP broadcast), being on a WAC, or on a router between the WiFi and the LAN.  Now we have to figure out where the Bonjour visibility is killed exactly.

 

Of course I'm assuming you run the current firmware on both the router and the WAC.

 

Message 5 of 11
jtsaox
Tutor

Re: WAC104 and Apple Airplay Clients

Yes the A/E is only connected wirelessly to the WAC104.  It is configured to be used as an Airplay / WiFi client only.  It is not providing another WiFi network.

 

Running latest firmware on the WAC104 and Airport Express.  Running almost the latest firmware (the previous beta, released a few weeks ago to correct the OpenVPN issue), on the R7000 router (V1.0.9.30_10.2.33 ).

 

Message 6 of 11
schumaku
Guru

Re: WAC104 and Apple Airplay Clients

So the issue does exist regardless of the wireless AP/router or switch pirt a client computer or mobile device is connected to?

 

When temporarely moving the AE to a location and associate to the router WLAN, does the issue persist?

Message 7 of 11
jtsaox
Tutor

Re: WAC104 and Apple Airplay Clients

If the A/E connects directly to the R7000 then there is no problem - it is detected by all devices/software - iTunes/Airfoil on PCs and iPhone
Message 8 of 11
schumaku
Guru

Re: WAC104 and Apple Airplay Clients

...same with PC and iPhone connected to the WAC wireless, while the AE is on the router WiFi?
Message 9 of 11
jtsaox
Tutor

Re: WAC104 and Apple Airplay Clients

I'm fairly certain that I discovered the issue with discovering Airplay clients - the bonjour protocol, used to discover the clients, utilizes a time-to-live parameter (TTL) which is set to 1.  Clients attached to the WAP are 2 hops from the main LAN, therefore they don't get the broadcasted queries to detect clients.

Message 10 of 11
schumaku
Guru

Re: WAC104 and Apple Airplay Clients

What "hops"? The TTL on a multicast packet does only decrease on a L3 router hop (like routing between subnetworks), not on a multicast transparent L2 network.

 

It is possible of course that your device has a problem with handling multicast traffic properly. 

Message 11 of 11
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