Wifi performance suddenly poor

[roger567]

I have been using an R8500 and a EX7000 extender for some time with good performance.

In recent days (possibly following an update of the R8500), performance on the 5GHz channels has become terrible.

1. Often the 5GHz channel either doesn't appear at all or appears after several minutes, so devices are all connecting to the 2.4GHz channel and using 802.11n. These devices are all connecting through the R8500 not the extended network and applies to Windows PCs and an Android phone.

2. When the EX7000 connects at 5GHz, speeds are around 14Mbps, where previously it was claiming the 1300Mbps and achieving transfers of around 400-500Mbps. It is about 3 metres away from the R8500.

According to Genie on my Android phone, the signal strength in the room with the EX7000 is about 91%.

Why is this happening and what can I do to troubleshoot or fix these issues?

Firmware on R8500: V1.0.2.122

Firmware on EX7000: V1.0.0.66_1.0.126

[shadowsports · Accepted solution]

@DarrenM

Forgive me for replying to the wrong party.

@roger567

Thusfar, the behavor and issues you are describing are often the result of bad FW flash or misconfiguration.  Its good that you have disabled WiFi and DHCP, etc on your ISPs modem, but you should really look at getting in into Bridge or Pass Through mode.  No way for us to rule out this not being related to your issue(s) unless this is done.  The 8500 needs to be running the show.  I recommended taking the extenders out of the mix (for now) because you have zero stability from a performance standpoint. 

Flashing FW - should only be done from a PC connected via ethernet.  Genie or automatic update might work 90% of the time, until it doesn't.  Eliminate as many variables as possible.

Reset, good idea.  Now use an app to see what other networks are broadcasting in your vicinity, and what channels they are using.  Choose something else.After saving, I suggest fully restarting your router before testing again.  While its not alway neccessary, I've found it to be reliable. 

QoS - Avoid it.  You're asking for trouble. 

Smart Connect - Also not a fan...  Why not create your own networks, name appropriately.  Connect your devices based on capabiity. Also gives you greater flexibility with channel selection.  Up to you.  But remember, if one of your 5Ghz devices get put on a 2.4Ghz broadcast, performnce is going to suffer.

You've got some more troubleshooting to do.  I've not had a router forget its port forwarding or address reservation settings once set. Hope you;ll figure it out.

[DarrenM]

Have you connected any new devices to the network when you started to see this happen? Have you tried to resync the extender?

DarrenM

[roger567]

Hi Darren,

Not before the problem started, although since writing this, I have tried many things, including replacing the EX7000 with an EX8000; and yes I have resync'd it very many times. I even tried contacting Netgear support, but they were less accessible than the crew of the Marie Celeste.

I am pretty sure that the problem lies with the router.

Yesterday I noticed that the table of attached devices was shuffled.

The device names and types were not those of the IP address and were changing each time I went back.

I have switched off QoS as this shuffling was causing mayhem - putting the extender on low priority for instance.

In the end, I did a full factory reset of the router, but that did not change the firmware and the problem persists.

[shadowsports]

@DarrenM

What do you have in front of your 8500?  Is this device operating in Bridge Mode?

Start here:

Disconnect your extender.  Power it off.

Now download whatever FW you wish to run and reflash the 8500 directly from a PC connected via ethernet. Now perform a factory reset.  Configure the 8500 from scratch, changing only what is absolutely neccessary for you to connect.  Do NOT enable QoS, Traffic Meter or any other unneccessary services.  You can even stick with the default SSID names (wireless) for the time being.  Test your wired and wireless performance.  

What speeds are you provisioned for?  What speeds are you seeing on each interface?  Less is more here.  Don't make a bunch of changes.  If your speeds are acceptable, you can change the broadcast names of your SSID's and use WiFi Analyzer or Genie to make addiitonal adjustments to channels to further optimize performance.

The desired result is getting the 8500 to a point of stability and acceptable performance.  Post back with any questions and results and we'll move forward from there.  You have introduced too many variables which will only lead to further frustration. 

You can re-introduce the extender once things on the 8500 are stable.  

Tips, things to avoid:

-Don't use Genie to update

-Don't enable Auto Updates

-Don't use the GUI to check and update, only flash from a PC connected via wire

-Don't enable QoS or Traffic Meter

-I wouldn't enable Smart Connect while testing

-Use a tool such as Genie or WiFi Analyzer to evaluate other broadcasts or interfearence in your vicinity

-Don't make successive changes to WiFi broadcast channels without restarting the router in between changes.  When you change and save, the radios restart, but in some cases its better to restart completely before retesting.  Use the tool.

[roger567]

Sorry Darren, but I understood little of your message.

"in front"?

The R8500 is connected to the ISP's router, which is operating in PPPoE mode with everything like DHCP, wifi etc. off, so the R8500 is the only device operating as a router and the only DHCP server on the network. So I will say no to "bridge mode".

I hope that is relevant to what you asked.

"What speeds are you provisioned for?"

Do you mean on the EX8000 status? It currently shows 144.4Mbps (2.4GHz) and 866Mbps (5GHz). It achieves 200-300 Mbps, which is much less than the EX7000 managed on a good day (400-500), when it didn't drop down to 14Mbps.

I wonder if the latter was the QoS shuffling putting the extender to low priority.

The units are about 3 metres apart, so I had hoped for more. The EX7000 used to show better connection speeds (1300Mbps on the 5GHz).

This current speed is not acceptable for my purposes and I thought the EX8000 would operate over both 5GHz bands and so would link faster than the EX7000. However, it is so unstable and unreliable that my definition of "acceptable" is reducing fast.

I don't dare touch the firmware at the moment. I have lost 2 days just trying to get these things to talk at all and now I cannot afford to lose them again while I am trying to catch up on the resulting work backlog.

Every resync of the extender leaves it disconnected and then I have to power recycle repeatedly until it connects again.

Also the timeout of the configuration being shorter than time than it takes to resync is a nice feature 🙂

[roger567]

Today the R8500 has forgotten settings for port redirection and reserved IP addresses - all empty.

Has anyone else been having these problems?

Any idea what can cause this?

[shadowsports · Accepted solution]

@DarrenM

Forgive me for replying to the wrong party.

@roger567

Thusfar, the behavor and issues you are describing are often the result of bad FW flash or misconfiguration.  Its good that you have disabled WiFi and DHCP, etc on your ISPs modem, but you should really look at getting in into Bridge or Pass Through mode.  No way for us to rule out this not being related to your issue(s) unless this is done.  The 8500 needs to be running the show.  I recommended taking the extenders out of the mix (for now) because you have zero stability from a performance standpoint. 

Flashing FW - should only be done from a PC connected via ethernet.  Genie or automatic update might work 90% of the time, until it doesn't.  Eliminate as many variables as possible.

Reset, good idea.  Now use an app to see what other networks are broadcasting in your vicinity, and what channels they are using.  Choose something else.After saving, I suggest fully restarting your router before testing again.  While its not alway neccessary, I've found it to be reliable. 

QoS - Avoid it.  You're asking for trouble. 

Smart Connect - Also not a fan...  Why not create your own networks, name appropriately.  Connect your devices based on capabiity. Also gives you greater flexibility with channel selection.  Up to you.  But remember, if one of your 5Ghz devices get put on a 2.4Ghz broadcast, performnce is going to suffer.

You've got some more troubleshooting to do.  I've not had a router forget its port forwarding or address reservation settings once set. Hope you;ll figure it out.

[roger567]

Thanks Shadowsports,

I reinstalled the R8500 firmware (same, current version) and factory reset and reinstalled the EX8000 from scratch and now they are both running well.

The router-extender link is now hitting 600Mbps, occasionally 700, which is most satisfactory.

You said you weren't a fan of Smart Connect.

My goal is to maximise the router-extender connection speed.

My limited understanding is that Smart Connect makes it possible for this link to use both 5GHz bands and otherwise you only get one.

Is that correct?

Thanks for your help

[IrvSp]

---

@roger567 wrote:

My limited understanding is that Smart Connect makes it possible for this link to use both 5GHz bands and otherwise you only get one.

Is that correct?

Thanks for your help

---

Jumping in here, excuse me...

I have an R8000 that has 2 5Ghz bands and Smart Connect as well. I'll assume it is the same situation as your router (too lazy to check manuals) in that it will manage both 5Ghz bands for you. Some routers, like the R7000 is manages both the 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz band.

Smart Connect is a feature that will allow the router to broadcast a single SSID (also using the same passphrase) for the bands it manages. That is even though you have 2 bands, you see only 1 band.

Smart Connect is a function of the router chipset and unfortunately the Netgear Implementation. That is the make of the chipset for this has many options, and NG in its firmware may not use all options. So I can't speak for the R8500's implementation, but if like the R8000's it isn't dynamic but static.

Hope I've not confused you so far, just setting the bar on what might be contained.

So, Smart Connect manages the 2 5Ghz SSID's. Internally it decides what device will connect to which internal SSID. If you enable Smart Connect and look at the Channels for each 5Ghz band you'll see one is on low channels and the other on high channels.

What the router does is assign connecting devices to the best fit 5Ghz band. In this case, usually the lower channels would be used for the N Speed devices and the higher for AC Speed devices. If you mix speed devices on a single band you could hamper the performance of the higher speed device. Again, depending on implementation some 'load leveling' might be performed, that is trying to keep the same number of devices on each of the 2 5Ghz bands. Not sure if this is implemented, I don't think so, but it could be, which could mix device speeds. Also Dynamic load leveling, which will move a device connected to on band to another to even the number of devices per band it appears isn't implemented (a good thing).

I use it and it works well. However, it is just 'easier' than manually deciding who goes to what band, nothing more. Use whichever you wish.

I also noticed you listed speeds, like 866Mbps and others ("It currently shows 144.4Mbps (2.4GHz) and 866Mbps (5GHz). It achieves 200-300 Mbps,"). That would be from an AC1200 network adapter. So I'll assume you are looking at the device itself to see what it is 'connected' at. There are 3 speeds, ISP provided, Actual, and connected speeds. That are NOT the same and can vary greatly especially is wireless is involved.

There basically are 2 speeds to worry about (mostly). That is what the ISP provides and what you get via a Speed Test either from the QoS page on the router using a browser to open Genie or via an Internet Speed Test site, like www.speedtest.net or ideally the site your ISP suggests done on a connected device with a browser.

For instance, in the 866Mbps connection, you can most likely NEVER reach that speed. Only possible way would be an ISP speed of 1Gbps and perfect wireless performance, close to the router, no interference, and no other devices connected to the band it was one. The 200-300Mbps you are seeing could be acceptable if there were an N Speed device connected on the same band operating. Although the range should not be that wide? The 2.4Ghz band is also acceptable depending on what N Speed device you have.

If you listed the devices and the network adapters they have it would probably explain these values you see, which are 'actual' speeds.

Sorry for the interrupt.

[shadowsports]

@roger567

Good to hear.  You're off to a great start.  As time goes by, you will learn the performance, behavior and nuances of your network.  Like all of us, you just want stuff to work.  I know it can be frustrating when it doesn't.  Hopefully you can concentrate on your workload now .

@IrvSp

You are never a bother and I appreciate your valuable insight. 

[roger567]

Thanks both of you. Finally I get it 

I had imagined that when one computer copied one file, the smart connection would share the load between all 3 channels to achieve a higher aggregate bandwidth. @IrvSp is saying (I think) that its smartness is limited to selecting a fast band and only one is used for each device. As the wifi signal is always 90-100%, the 2nd 5GHz band on the extender will presumably always be fastest.

My application is not what Netgear has in mind: I have computers and NAS's in two rooms, separated by a narrow corridor and, in each room, the important devices are all wired. The challenge is to bridge the corridor. An ethernet cable between the rooms isn't possible and Powerline didn't work, so I am trying the extender, hoping for near-ethernet speeds over a 3-metre gap. 

Other wifi doesn't matter much, nor does the ISP speed as the important transfers stay in the building. The most critical situation is a computer in one room accessing big files from a NAS in the other or sending backups to the NAS.

So following @shadowsports comment "Smart Connect - Also not a fan... Why not create your own networks, name appropriately." I have now dedicated the 2nd 5GHz band to just the extender link and use everything else for everything else.

Now it shows a theoretical connection speed of 1300Mbps and it is actually achieving 700-750 Mbps, which I would certainly consider to be "near-ethernet".

Thanks again for all your advice.