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X8 (R8500) MU-MIMO Enabled Yet?

TheScoobUK
Aspirant

X8 (R8500) MU-MIMO Enabled Yet?

So, I've had the X8 for a number of months.  It works fine.  It is better and faster than my previous R7000.

 

However, I understand that at launch the MU-MIMO capability was not enabled and this was made clear in quite a lot of reviews.

 

I also understood they intended to have a firmware update before end of 2015.

 

So, I've updated firmware regularly and I'm currently running 1.0.2.30 with no issues.  However, I've not seen anything published anywhere that states MU-MIMO is now enabled and there has been nothing in the release notes for the firmware.

 

I still just see everywhere saying the X8 is "MU-MIMO Capable", but not that it is active.

 

I would like some clarity on if it is enabled and whether the Netgear router GUI will be updated at any point to include indication whether MU-MIMO running/active?

 

Thanks

Message 1 of 15
NightOwl326
Luminary

Re: X8 (R8500) MU-MIMO Enabled Yet?

Do you have 2 MU-MIMO clients to take advantage of this feature?  If not I can assure you that you will gain nothing without at least 2 MU-MIMO clients.  Some seem to be thinking they will see gains without these clients, they are wrong.  Another r8500 as a bridge gains nothing either.   Is it just the principle of it,  or do you have the clients ready to go?  If you have 2 clients please list them as there are so few on the market.  

Message 2 of 15
TheScoobUK
Aspirant

Re: X8 (R8500) MU-MIMO Enabled Yet?

So far as I understand the iPhone 6S is MU-MIMO capable, so presume I should see those being split between channels?  Also, new iPads...?

 

My new Dell Latitude E7240 may also be enabled, I'd have to check.

 

I'm not sure I'm seeing much in the way of improvements though (yet)?

 

Thanks for reply.

Message 3 of 15
NightOwl326
Luminary

Re: X8 (R8500) MU-MIMO Enabled Yet?

"The iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus are non-MIMO 802.11ac devices. That means a top rate of 433 Mbps. That is higher than the top rate of the 802.11n-supporting iPhone 5 and iPhone 5S, which is 150 Mbps. And that is where Apple gets the nerve justification for putting this on their site:"  Same for the 6s. 

 

From what I understand Broadcom is still ironing out MU-MIMO on their chipsets, so it's a Broadcom issue not a Netgear issue. 

Message 4 of 15
TheScoobUK
Aspirant

Re: X8 (R8500) MU-MIMO Enabled Yet?

Oh right.  I am surpprised they didn't make the 6S full MIMO compliant then.

 

They do connect and get a down/up speed of around 450mb/s (I have a 1 gig leased fibre connection).

 

I also have a 5S that only gets 110mb/s, so clear that is about right too.

 

Seems there isn't many devices that are MU-MIMO compliant then yet.  I presume we'll start seeing those this year, perhaps the iPhone 7 will deliver it.

Message 5 of 15
mediatrek
Virtuoso

Re: X8 (R8500) MU-MIMO Enabled Yet?

Apple has basically been using Broadcom chips for Wi-Fi in the iPhones. If they stick to that with the iPhone 7, I would not expect to see it support MU-MIMO; at best, SU-MIMO. If Apple decides to go with Qualcomm, then you will see MU-MIMO support in the iPhone 7. Yet that is extremely unlikely given Apple’s history.

Qualcomm spent seven years developing their MU-MIMO solutions. Other chip vendors like Broadcom have been playing catchup bigtime as they did not innovate in their product portfolio as much IMO. For client devices that support MU-MIMO, you can download this PDF to get an idea of what is on that market as of October 2015.

As far as MU-MIMO being enabled on the R8500; there is firmware with beta drivers from Broadcom out, but from what I have heard from folks that have MU-MIMO clients to test it with, interoperability is not that good compared to what they see in Qualcomm-based solutions like the Netgear R7800, Linksys EA8500, TP-Link Archer C2600, etc.

 

Message 6 of 15
vinniemac
Luminary

Re: X8 (R8500) MU-MIMO Enabled Yet?

Hi,

 

There's still no MU-MIMO support as of yet for the R8500. There was briefly during testing phase but as of yet still to appear in a public release. Whether there has been issues with the function, we don't know...

The functionality was supposed to be available late December 2015 but I think this has since been removed from the small print on the product sheet on Netgears website.

 

Cards on the market that are MU-MIMO capable are:

 

Killer 1535 ac 2x2 M.2 Card

Intel 8265 ac 2x2 M.2 Card

 

There is no indication as of yet that any cellphone/Mobile device is MU-MIMO capable, even the Samsung Galaxy S6 and S7 have full 2x2 support up to 867Mbps but no indication of MU-MIMO.

 

The R8500 is Quad Stream anyway so the router can push to devices happily all day long but the only real benefit to MU-MIMO is that clients will have Tx Beamforming and Application QoS in order to prioritise traffic back to the router both increasing efficiency and range. I say efficiency as it's a better term than the broad term of 'Speed' that gets thrown around quite a lot.

 

I guess it's a case of 'watch the netgear support page' space...

 

Cheers

 

Vince

Message 7 of 15
netv
Aspirant

Re: X8 (R8500) MU-MIMO Enabled Yet?

Message 8 of 15
VE6CGX
Master

Re: X8 (R8500) MU-MIMO Enabled Yet?

Best MU-MIMO router so far is R7800. Do you have MU-MIMO compatible devices?

Message 9 of 15
VE6CGX
Master

Re: X8 (R8500) MU-MIMO Enabled Yet?

Some folks keep foregetting communication whether wired or wireless is 2 way business. R8500 is just glorified dual bander router.

At present proven MU-MIMO router is R7800.

Message 10 of 15
BARNES
Apprentice

Re: X8 (R8500) MU-MIMO Enabled Yet?

 

This is 100% unacceptable whether one has a MU-MIMO device or not!

It was advertised as a MU-MIMO router, and I have the box to prove it! Companies can NOT do this LEGALLY and they know it!

Netgear, let me educate you about something... Trust & Integrity is a $million$ times easier to lose, then it is to earn...Just Saying....

Message 11 of 15
vinniemac
Luminary

Re: X8 (R8500) MU-MIMO Enabled Yet?

It's advertised as MU-MIMO capable is it not?
That was what I read on the product page

http://www.netgear.com/home/products/networking/wifi-routers/R8500.aspx?utm_source=scrolling-header-...

Capable is different to ready. It's also not marketed as an MU-MIMO router. It's main feature is tri-band with active antennas.

Message 12 of 15
VE6CGX
Master

Re: X8 (R8500) MU-MIMO Enabled Yet?

There are so many things like this out there in real life. Just chill it bud. VW cheating with their Diesel eingines, Starbuck being sued for underfilling coffee. Car manufacturers  cheating with MPG figures. So what is new?.  Routers being claimed to have super speed, etc. This is Hum Drum  story for me.  Being capable is different from being ready. Onus is on us consumers. If you have bottomless pocket you can sue them. Did you read about class action suit against Subaru for excessive use of engine oil? At least I use R7800 which is ready for MU-MIMO and best rated in it's class

routers. After careful study this is the router I chose for upgrade.

Message 13 of 15
vinniemac
Luminary

Re: X8 (R8500) MU-MIMO Enabled Yet?

We have to also consider that it's all marketing. If you have a blackspot then this new router isn't going to just make that blackspot disappear because of the power outputs in regulatory domains. These devices don't have high gain antennas by default.

Also we have to look at the client. Same applies really, the client has to be able to do the business.

The R7800 is certainly the best in class router but we have to consider it is different than the R8500, is not tri-band and doesn't have link aggregation. It's also Qualcomm and not Broadcom so has a different feature set but it would certainly be a stronger candidate in my opinion than the R8500.
Message 14 of 15
VE6CGX
Master

Re: X8 (R8500) MU-MIMO Enabled Yet?

If antenna becomes hi-gain then you have to realize it won't be omni-directional. Qualcomm's MU-MIMO driver works, Broadcom chips run

much hotter. That is why most Asus routers are too warm to touch.  because I don't have many devices/users at my home I don't need

much b/w or speed. ISP gives 50/3 which is plenty for us. Never ever have problem real time streaming any media stuff to our

HT 7.1 system.  Speed is always 50/3 day and night every day no fluctuations.

Message 15 of 15
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