Orbi WiFi 7 RBE973
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Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

tak1313
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Another thing that can be done is for someone experiencing the problem that has a YouTube channel to make of video or the issue occuring with commentary, post it with something more generic that would come up on search (like "Orbi problems" versus "RBK853 problems" or "Orbi AX6000 (or AX4200) problems")

 

Then let everyone on the forum know so everyone can view the vid, which will also bring the view numbers up and make it more noticeable, etc., etc.

 

The more "public" the issue is, the more likely NG's hand will be forced.

Message 226 of 579
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

I am. I know it's been seen with some on the various versions of FW. I have also been using all the versions since day one. Not seen this till today. Just saying. 

 

All my PCs and devices are using Auto Obtain DNS. RBR is set to Quad 9 and 6to4 DNS for IPv6 currently. Though I had not been using IPv6 DNS up to about a few months ago. Before that it was just either ISP auto detected DNS on the RBR or quad 9 IPv4 DNS only. 

 

Has anyone tried changing NTP server from NGs to time.nist.gov or something else? 

 

Since the power bump this morning I've seen this issue now. I may do a full power OFF after work today as the bump was a quick one. 

 


@tak1313 wrote:


I notice you're on the latest firmware, has it been pervasive on older firmware as well?  What is your compter's DNS (vs router's DNS) set to?

 

Too bad someone can't get a good publication/site like Cnet or Dongknows to latch on to this.  A lot of the public at large don't read reviews, so posting the issue in reviews doesn't get the word out like a major reviewer/publication could - but then, a lot of them don't do stuff like that because it can affect their advertising $$$ from the manufacturer.


 

Message 227 of 579
DNS_PROBE_FAIL
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

It sounds like your system had older, working firmware and wasn't updating firmware automatically, then for some reason it updated and the more recent firmware has the issue.  Sometimes a reboot after power drop or something can initiate that.  It's speculation but the fact that it was working and now isn't points to firmware update being a possible cause. 

Message 228 of 579
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

My system has been on v12 since 1-21-2021

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-AX/New-RBR850-RBS850-Series-Firmware-Version-v3-2-17-12-Releas...

 

and it was manually updated to v12 since v12 was not put on NGs update services by NG. It's only for manual download. 

 

Message 229 of 579
tak1313
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

I assume the AX line does NOT have IPv6 enabled by default, so you have enabled it?  If so, it's a shot in the dark, but if you disable it, do the errors persist?  PERHAPS these routers handle IPv6 poorly?

 

https://www.internetsociety.org/resources/deploy360/2014/dns-considerations-for-ipv6/

 

Message 230 of 579
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

I might try that and see. Right now I'm checking a different line, to see if the problem re-appears. My Windows 10Pc got a new 2.5Gb LAN card installed. It was connected however I'm trying the old Intel 1Gb wired connection to see if I see anything first. 

 

My ISP doesn't have native IPv6 so I use the 6to4 configuration. Here what I have been using for past few months with no DNS problems until today:

6to4Settings.png

Message 231 of 579
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

I just checked my NTP settings, I dould have sworn that I had DST enabled, however it was not. It's enabled now. I'm going back to my 2.5Gb LAN card connection and monitor again. The 1Gb LAN card has not seen anything thus far since I change a while ago. 

Message 232 of 579
tak1313
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues


@FURRYe38 wrote:

I just checked my NTP settings, I dould have sworn that I had DST enabled, however it was not. It's enabled now. I'm going back to my 2.5Gb LAN card connection and monitor again. The 1Gb LAN card has not seen anything thus far since I change a while ago. 


I noticed a lot of Reddit users were posting DNS problems with older Orbis (RBR50, etc) with the switch to DST.  I don't recall, but I believe at least a few that I read stated theirs were fixed by enabling DST; however, this problem appears to have been going on even when DST was not in effect, so it may be a cause for SOME people's problem at least.

Message 233 of 579
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Ya seems that some are having problems regardless of NTP or DST, espeically here. 

 

I've since gone back to my 2.5Gb LAN card and have not notice anthing since this morning and re-enabled DST on mine. Will have to watch this over the next day or two and see how it goes. My Orbi 50 series hasn't seen this for me. Also using similar 6to4 DNS configurations. 

 

Overall, I would recommend all users reach out to NG support and let them know about this for those who have not contacted support yet. 

Message 234 of 579
msinex
Apprentice

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Just got this email from Netgear today asking me to join their "Netgear Champions" program to become "customer advocates" where I can earn points and giftcards for sharing my Orbi experience!  Maybe we all need to join this program and see how many points we can get by sharing our actual Orbi experience....

 

orbi1.jpgorbi2.jpgorbi2.jpg

Message 235 of 579
ericd77
Aspirant

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

I, too am experiencing this DNS proxy/resolver/caching issue ever since Sunday, which was the first day of DST.  I have DST enabled and using Netgear for NTP server.  I turned off DST and changed the NTP to be time.windows.com to see if this helps.  I've had this Orbi RBR40 now for about 2-3 years and have never had anything like this happen.  Extremely frustrating that Netgear allows DHCP option 60 and 61 but nothing for a simple hand out of DNS server IPs.  I even factory reset and that didn't help.  My old Linksys allows me to specify DNS servers in DHCP!

Model: RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 236 of 579
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Please visit and post about this over in the Orbi AC forum for your model Orbi:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/bd-p/Orbi

Others have mentioned doing a factory reset and changing NTP settings resolve this on the Orbi AC system:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/RBR50-intermittent-DNS-lookup-issues/m-p/2071397/highlight/tru...


Thank you. 


@ericd77 wrote:

I, too am experiencing this DNS proxy/resolver/caching issue ever since Sunday, which was the first day of DST.  I have DST enabled and using Netgear for NTP server.  I turned off DST and changed the NTP to be time.windows.com to see if this helps.  I've had this Orbi RBR40 now for about 2-3 years and have never had anything like this happen.  Extremely frustrating that Netgear allows DHCP option 60 and 61 but nothing for a simple hand out of DNS server IPs.  I even factory reset and that didn't help.  My old Linksys allows me to specify DNS servers in DHCP!


 

Message 237 of 579
bullm00n
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues


@FURRYe38 wrote:

I just checked my NTP settings, I dould have sworn that I had DST enabled, however it was not. It's enabled now. I'm going back to my 2.5Gb LAN card connection and monitor again. The 1Gb LAN card has not seen anything thus far since I change a while ago. 


I just checked mine too - and DST was not enabled, but the time was shown correctly.  I enabled DST and then the time was an hour ahead! So I disabled it again.  Next I chanced the time to Central Time and the time was an hour behind Central Time. So I re-enabled DST and Central Time was correct.  Then I put it back to Eastern Time and, with DST, that was now correct too!  Something flakey is going on with NTP settings.

 

That said, I have not seen any DNS issues.

Message 238 of 579
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Awesome, thanks for letting us know. What time zone are you actualy in

 

Ya, seems like someting in NTP is hokkie. I know someone posted over on the Orbi AC forum that they mention someone from NG engineering put some sort of bad code in FW. Not sure if this in actual FW throughout or also having to do with some cloud side services as well Seeing that fiddling with DST and NTP seems to resolve most of the users problems seen yesterday. Since I re-enabled mine as well, I have NOT seen any DNS web page errors since. 



@bullm00n wrote:


I just checked mine too - and DST was not enabled, but the time was shown correctly.  I enabled DST and then the time was an hour ahead! So I disabled it again.  Next I chanced the time to Central Time and the time was an hour behind Central Time. So I re-enabled DST and Central Time was correct.  Then I put it back to Eastern Time and, with DST, that was now correct too!  Something flakey is going on with NTP settings.

 

That said, I have not seen any DNS issues.


Message 239 of 579
Tobamory
Tutor

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Just an update from me, Orbi Pros, logged a Ticket, was told to ring up but never did. But what i wanted to ask is if your outside you 90 days i hear they want to charge you.... Surely this is a trading standards thing, they have a duty to sort these in the first 12 months, if you have to pay to talk to diagnose then get an RMA thats so wrong. Anybody done this ? But lets be honest their not broke there just badly developed with shoddy firmware

 

Anyway i turned them off, went back to Zyxel Multi X and everything is perfectly normal again. Its sad that a company Like netgear release a product so expensive, yet so poor its verging on criminal, i can honestly say never again will i buy this junk. I feel for some of you messing with DST time zone and getting deep inside the router, us users shouldnt need to do this, Netgear should fix their shoddy hardware, surely their guys see this and its an easy fix.... 

 But for the record all DNS issues and Wifi issues i had, have gone now there out of the equation. Dont waste your time faffing about just get something that works.

Message 240 of 579
JBlank912
Tutor

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

I gave up on the DNS error issues. It got to the point that I was lucky to have a working DNS for 5 minutes after reboot after fighting it for 3 days. I went out an bought a Linksys Router and set the Orbi to AP Mode.  I put in a Linksys EA7200. Solved my DNS issues nicely. What really impressed me most, I called Linksys twice with questions, I reached Tech support within 10 minutes each time. I had one last question late at night so I launched Chat. Got a person within 5 minutes. I asked in chat about support since netgear is 90 days and done. They said 7/24 support. Hardware warranty is 1 year BUT support continues throughtout that time and beyond. What an improvement over Netgear's policies. Super impressed. 

Message 241 of 579
energie
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Netgear actually hasn't changed. With the Orbi AX I actually broke my own promise and gave Netgear another try, as I was impressed by the potential. Over 15 years ago I said to never buy a Netgear product again after going through a similar experiencing with a router (and support). The WGT624 router had very frequent wifi drops. When this happened, the only thing you could do was wait, restart wifi on the client and/or restart the router. Which from usability was way more worse than this DNS issue, at least our wifi connection remains up. The forums were packed with customers having this issue, more so than now with the Orbi AX, and support basically was saying: the router is working fine, it must be some configuration or hardware must be broken so we will do a RMA. Well, switching to the Linksys WRT54G was an instant solution to the problem. Ironically, the current main solution now is to also use a third party router to solve the DNS issue and to stop using the Orbi AX as a router and start using it as an AP.

 

Netgear should fix the DNS server (dnsmasq) / firmware on the Orbi AX.

Message 242 of 579
tak1313
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Could the DNS problem be related to this, considering it's not affecting all units?

 

https://www.csoonline.com/article/3603929/flaws-in-widely-used-dnsmasq-software-leave-millions-of-li...

 

I also have an Asus router and noticed their most recent update specifically mentions it fixes the above situation - unlike Netgear that never states what their updates are doing.

Message 243 of 579
jimmyandrews
Aspirant

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Yes it could actually. When netgear doesn't follow international technical guidelines for dchp, as they do in many of their products, for instance, not honoring dns settings and forwarding the router as the dns as netgear does. It's supposed to carry over the dns that is set. So, the dns resolver cache gets full, doesn't clear, and the arp tables routes to bad or stale addresses.
Message 244 of 579
tak1313
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

This article also includes OpenWRT as specifically vulnerable (the other article mentions Netgear as a manufacturer.  I believe Netgear routers (among many) is based on OpenWRT?

 

https://www.helpnetsecurity.com/2021/01/19/dnsmasq-vulnerabilities/

 

Note- I don't know if this is THE issue, especially since Netgear has the annoying habit of NOT stating what their updates address.  I'm just stating a possible source of the issue.

 

Message 245 of 579
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Anything is possible. However since some users have disabled DST or made a change in NTP, possible that these two could be related. Seems that for the most part the problem appears to be over after these changes, until the next time we have the time change. 

Yes Orbi is based off a build of WRT. If you look at the telnet window when you log in, it gives this information. 


@tak1313 wrote:

This article also includes OpenWRT as specifically vulnerable (the other article mentions Netgear as a manufacturer.  I believe Netgear routers (among many) is based on OpenWRT?

 

https://www.helpnetsecurity.com/2021/01/19/dnsmasq-vulnerabilities/

 

Note- I don't know if this is THE issue, especially since Netgear has the annoying habit of NOT stating what their updates address.  I'm just stating a possible source of the issue.

 


 

Message 246 of 579
tak1313
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Not sure if/how this affects the AX line, but in a similar thread in the "regular" orbi forum, this was stated by archp:

 

Re: RBR50 intermittent DNS lookup issues
This is what the netgear engineer said:


We have identified that the traffic meter will cause problem while auto daylight saving time enabled. Since you turn off auto daylight saving time, the issue should be go away. Turn off traffic meter would also avoid the issue. We are working on a trial fix firmware. Will provide to you once it’s ready. Thanks.
 
Message 75 of 75
Message 247 of 579
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Interesting, I don't use Traffic meter. Others didn't mention the use of TM either. Only that disabling or re-enabling DST seemed to solve most of the problems. 

I had one user with Orbi AC re-enabled it on his and he said system is still working. I'll ask him about TM though. 

Message 248 of 579
tak1313
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

It could be a glitch  that ONLY affected one scenario, and there are other scenarios/settings that are causing issues because it's not the REAL underlying issue/cause - the whole "post hoc, ergo proptor hoc" fallacy

Message 249 of 579
bullm00n
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues


@tak1313 wrote:

Not sure if/how this affects the AX line, but in a similar thread in the "regular" orbi forum, this was stated by archp:

 

Re: RBR50 intermittent DNS lookup issues
This is what the netgear engineer said:


We have identified that the traffic meter will cause problem while auto daylight saving time enabled. Since you turn off auto daylight saving time, the issue should be go away. Turn off traffic meter would also avoid the issue. We are working on a trial fix firmware. Will provide to you once it’s ready. Thanks.
 
Message 75 of 75

I have both DST and Traffic meter enabled and I'm not seeing any obvious DNS issues.  In my Internet Setup, I am manually specifying both the Xfinity DNS and my local DNS.  Unrelated, but kind of a bummer that I can only specify two DNS addresses with the AX series while my old AC3K series RBR50 would let me specify three: both the Xfinity DNS addresses as well as my local DNS.

Message 250 of 579
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