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Re: Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019


@gr8sho wrote:

 

 

At face value I read this to mean the fucntionality provided by 802.11.AX will be enabled via a firmware update.  Please confirm.


Great catch.

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My Equipment: Cox Cable (350Mb/35Mb), Orbi AX6000 (RBR850, RBS850), w/2 x RBS50) (Wired backhaul), NG GS116PP Gigabit Smart Switch, Synology DS1019+ NAS
Message 51 of 80
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Virtuoso

Re: Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019


@Chuck_M wrote:

@gr8sho wrote:

 

 

At face value I read this to mean the fucntionality provided by 802.11.AX will be enabled via a firmware update.  Please confirm.


Great catch.


This is a very important distinction for me.  Getting the Orbi appears to have solved a chronic issue I've been suffering with an ISP's Arris router that's provided as part of the service.  Specficially WiFi Calling was completely unreliable and mobile service here is attrocious, therefore I place a premium value on said functionality. And it's because of the longstanding negative experienced that I finally spent time doing research and learned about the deficiencies in most routers.

As the investment in the RBK50 is something non-trivial, it is helpful to know the device is futureproofed at least for WiFi 6.  If for some reason my understanding is incorrect, I may go down a different path while there's still time.

Orbi RBK50 in AP mode, 100/20 Mbps VDSL2, Arris BGW210 gateway

Message 52 of 80
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Virtuoso

Re: Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019

Decided to test out the chat support that I'm entitled to and ask the question there.  This was the response I got.


"However the new WiFi 6, will have a different model number and hardware. And we will have to look on that statement. Since 802.11ac cannot be upgraded to 802.11ax via firmware since it has a different hardware."

 

This very clearly contradicts the prese release.

Orbi RBK50 in AP mode, 100/20 Mbps VDSL2, Arris BGW210 gateway

Message 53 of 80
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Re: Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019

planned ob·so·les·cence

Dictionary result for planned obsolescence

/ˌpland ˌäbsəˈlesəns/
noun
  1. a policy of producing consumer goods that rapidly become obsolete and so require replacing, achieved by frequent changes in design, termination of the supply of spare parts, and the use of nondurable materials.
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My Equipment: Cox Cable (350Mb/35Mb), Orbi AX6000 (RBR850, RBS850), w/2 x RBS50) (Wired backhaul), NG GS116PP Gigabit Smart Switch, Synology DS1019+ NAS
Message 54 of 80
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Virtuoso

Re: Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019

Man Happy

 

I guess they'll wriggle out of it somehow with the word "series".  And I'm actually okay that the new standard drives new hardware.  The step up to a new standard should have driven a new product name, RBK60 or something to avoid any confusion.

 

I'm going to go back in my hole and read more about WiFi 6.  As it turns out, MU-MIMO by itself is actually limited to 4 streams as I now understand it.  That should actually be enough for me and I probably won't have any devices that support 802.11 AX for a few years anyway.  Still it would have been nice if the RBK50 was futureproofed for the new standard given the cost. 

Orbi RBK50 in AP mode, 100/20 Mbps VDSL2, Arris BGW210 gateway

Message 55 of 80
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Guru

Re: Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019

Long experinece with home class routers and new WiFi standards has mostly been with a new standard of WiFi comes out, it's mostly kept to a new product line. Most current and older HW and Chip sets seen in already released HW does not include support for any future WiFi standards as new chipset HW is designed around new wifi standards. Thus most of the time and probably in this case, Any Orbi 50 series will not see a upgrade to the AX WiFi standard. Same may happen for WPA3. Though depending upon how the security standard comes down from those who do the core code, if new HW is needed, then this may effect how WPA3 is implemented by router and wifi Mfrs. Thus if HW is needed for WPA3, then current wifi and router HW may not see WPA3. Though just speculating that WPA3 maybe less HW dependent and more FW dependent, we hope that WPA3 can come to ALL older and current products rather than having to buy new. Who knows though. If marketing has it's way, we'd all have to buy new. Smiley Mad Hoping that WPA3 will be mostly a FW update. Let all hope for this. Smiley Wink I think WPA3 is in the new NG RAX routers. Will probably be in the new Orbi AX systems as well. 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>RBK50 v2.7.0.70(AP Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK853, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 56 of 80
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Re: Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019

And I was hoping this would be the last router I ever purchased.....

 

 

LOL!

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My Equipment: Cox Cable (350Mb/35Mb), Orbi AX6000 (RBR850, RBS850), w/2 x RBS50) (Wired backhaul), NG GS116PP Gigabit Smart Switch, Synology DS1019+ NAS
Message 57 of 80
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Guru

Re: Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019

Router Mfrs wouldn to make money then if they allowed that. Smiley Tongue


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>RBK50 v2.7.0.70(AP Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK853, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 58 of 80
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Re: Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019


@FURRYe38 wrote:

Router Mfrs wouldn to make money then if they allowed that. Smiley Tongue


I forgot to close out with </sarcasm>   

!!!!

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My Equipment: Cox Cable (350Mb/35Mb), Orbi AX6000 (RBR850, RBS850), w/2 x RBS50) (Wired backhaul), NG GS116PP Gigabit Smart Switch, Synology DS1019+ NAS
Message 59 of 80
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Guru

Re: Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019

"We come for your daughter Chuck!!!"


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>RBK50 v2.7.0.70(AP Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK853, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 60 of 80
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Re: Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019


@FURRYe38 wrote:

"We come for your daughter Chuck!!!"


No sweat.  I am armed and dangerous Smiley Happy  

---------------
My Equipment: Cox Cable (350Mb/35Mb), Orbi AX6000 (RBR850, RBS850), w/2 x RBS50) (Wired backhaul), NG GS116PP Gigabit Smart Switch, Synology DS1019+ NAS
Message 61 of 80
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Luminary

Re: Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019


@FURRYe38 wrote:

Long experinece with home class routers and new WiFi standards has mostly been with a new standard of WiFi comes out, it's mostly kept to a new product line. Most current and older HW and Chip sets seen in already released HW does not include support for any future WiFi standards as new chipset HW is designed around new wifi standards. Thus most of the time and probably in this case, Any Orbi 50 series will not see a upgrade to the AX WiFi standard. Same may happen for WPA3. Though depending upon how the security standard comes down from those who do the core code, if new HW is needed, then this may effect how WPA3 is implemented by router and wifi Mfrs. Thus if HW is needed for WPA3, then current wifi and router HW may not see WPA3. Though just speculating that WPA3 maybe less HW dependent and more FW dependent, we hope that WPA3 can come to ALL older and current products rather than having to buy new. Who knows though. If marketing has it's way, we'd all have to buy new. Smiley Mad Hoping that WPA3 will be mostly a FW update. Let all hope for this. Smiley Wink I think WPA3 is in the new NG RAX routers. Will probably be in the new Orbi AX systems as well. 


Agreed, also I didn't get the impression that the Orbi 802.11ac based devices would be upgradable via a firmware update "at all".

 

Maybe that's because I have some small degree of understanding of how this all works, but also I might not be entirely correct so take it however you wish.

 

In order for low powered router (and in this case satelite also) hardware to be able to do what it does much of the heavy duty processing is done in hardware, particularly the wireless functionality.

 

So when a new wireless standard comes out, such as 802.11ax, the wireless chipset makers/board makers develop new boards and release new development kits (wireless drivers etc.) for them and the router vendors then develop products around them.

 

This must be done this way at least because of the need implement functionality in hardware.

One obvious point is that while Netgear probably has relationships with the device manufactures they are very much dependednt on what the manufacurers do.

 

The point is it isn't right or accurate to critisize Netgear for something they have no (or at the very least little) control over.

 

Another thing to consider is that I'm pretty sure (read this as I'm "certain") that we will not see any 802.11ac routers upgradable to 801.11ax routers from any domestic router vendor (and most probably not enterprise vendors either, unless they had released harware specifically capable of 802.11ax as an 802.11ac product)!

 

Message 62 of 80
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Virtuoso

Re: Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019

Yes, I get it.  I only take exception to the wording in the press release and the use of the RBK50 statement.  It's clear from the product pages on the website NG is taking the opportunity to rollout new routers based on the standards, and with respect to the point on processing power, it is rendered quite explicit.

Orbi RBK50 in AP mode, 100/20 Mbps VDSL2, Arris BGW210 gateway

Message 63 of 80
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Aspirant

Re: Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019

Many on this site have come and gone over the last 2 years with Orbi because they can't fix the device firmware issues.  It seems people who don't notice it are the ones clueless.  All Orbis are having issues, it doesn't work like that on Tech where just some are for some people.  It's some people don't notice it or don't know tech well enough.

Message 64 of 80
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Virtuoso

Re: Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019

No interest here in fighting issues.  If I can't get the Orbi to work to my satisfaction, it is getting returned.

Orbi RBK50 in AP mode, 100/20 Mbps VDSL2, Arris BGW210 gateway

Message 65 of 80
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Re: Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019


@nizmoz44 wrote:

It seems people who don't notice it are the ones clueless.  All Orbis are having issues, it doesn't work like that on Tech where just some are for some people.  It's some people don't notice it or don't know tech well enough.


I respectfully disagree with you.  I am not clueless and I am not having issues with my Orbis.  I indeed know tech well.

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My Equipment: Cox Cable (350Mb/35Mb), Orbi AX6000 (RBR850, RBS850), w/2 x RBS50) (Wired backhaul), NG GS116PP Gigabit Smart Switch, Synology DS1019+ NAS
Message 66 of 80
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Initiate

Re: Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019

Please consider for future plans with your Orbi WiFi systems and the new new AX version to introduce a sleek, BLACK color model in your product line!

Model: RBK22| Orbi AC2200 Tri-band WiFi System
Message 67 of 80
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Router or Mesh

I see you said you would probably get the new Orbi WiFi 6 when it comes out. Since you have experience with an Orbi RK50, do you feel that’s the better option as instead of buying The Netgear AX80 Router. And could you explain your setup again. You have multiple satellites?
Model: RBK50| Orbi AC3000 High-Performance Tri-Band WiFi System
Message 68 of 80
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Aspirant

Re: Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019

NIce Mesh !

Message 69 of 80
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Re: Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019

I just wanted to add my experience with orbi I have three units and they all use the same channel that I can see on my Wi-Fi analyzer. I have 62 devices connected a handful which are Nest cameras streaming uploading all the time to the cloud gigs of data and all products are working flawlessly! As a
av techniciann who installs ubiquity and other consumer networks I can tell you the way o
Orbi operates is absolutely phenomenal. Not only is it very strong Works indoors and outdoors and none of my products disconnect I will not question the basic laws of physics that say it shouldn't work on all one frequency channel, but it does.
Message 70 of 80
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Aspirant

Re: Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019

Which Orbi System do you have? Are they wireless or hardwired?
Message 71 of 80
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Aspirant

Re: Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019

Which Orbi System do you have? And do you have them wireless or hardwired.
Model: RBK53|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi System
Message 72 of 80
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Tutor

Re: Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019

RBK53. One router plus two satellites. All wireless. Not perfect but much better than Velop, Amplified,
Message 73 of 80
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Aspirant

Re: Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019

I need a WiFi mesh system for my house and waiting patiently for this to come out. Please hurry my current system sucks
Message 74 of 80
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Guru

Re: Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019

Start here: Which Orbi System is right for you?

https://www.netgear.com/orbi/wifi-systems.aspx

 

30 feet is recommended in between base router and satellite to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected.


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>RBK50 v2.7.0.70(AP Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK853, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 75 of 80
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