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RBR850 poor backhaul status

CrazyEddie
Aspirant

RBR850 poor backhaul status

I've got an Orbi RBR850 router and two RBS850 satellites. The router is on our main floor. The satellite upstairs (directly above the router) shows "good" for backhaul status, and was just added today. The satellite downstairs (pretty much directly below the router) shows "poor" for backhaul status, but has been operating with the router for ~6 months. (I just learned today of the web user interface...) Both satellites are connected via 5G and both have fully updated firmware. The 5GHz channel is set to 48. Apart from a computer (wired to the downstairs satellite) and peripherals, there are no electronics which I would expect to cause interference. I'm leaning towards a physical reset on the back of that satellite, but welcome any other advice.

After a two hour waste of time on the phone with Netgear CS, I'm hoping for input from people who know something... 😀

Thanks in advance
Message 1 of 34
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status

What Firmware version is currently loaded?
What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too?

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet or more is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. Depending upon distance and building materies, it maybe common to see a poor status for 1 RBS. 

 

Swap RBS placements with the other to see if status changes or follows. 

 

Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.2.1(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.223/SRK30 V3.2.33.106)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 2 of 34
CrazyEddie
Aspirant

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status

Many thanks to your reply and follow-up questions. My answers:

 

  • The firmware reflected on the web UI is V3.2.16.22_1.4.9
  • The cable provider is Xfinity and the cabel modem/router is their XB7-T, which I believe is made by Broadcom
  • I would say the size is ~6k square feet (although I've got the router and satellite so close that I'm not sure the size is impacting the setup)
  • I estimate the distance from the router to the "good" backhaul status is less than 30 feet, and the distance from the router to the basement might be about the same distance, or slightly further away
  • I will swap the satellites in the morning to see if there is a difference. FWIW, both satellites were "good" today when I had them within ~6 feet of the router when I added the 2nd satellite
  • There are a handful of wifi neighbors - beside, behind and across the street - I can see seven from my Mac wifi drop down menu
Message 3 of 34
CrazyEddie
Aspirant

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status

Updates:

  1. This morning both satellites are showing "good" under backhaul, but internet seemed to be completely down last night and this morning for the upstairs satellite. After unplugging the device and turning WiFi on and off on my phone, I was able to connect to the mesh network.
  2. Here are the speeds I got:
  • Using the Orbi app, my speeds were pretty consistently ~1190Mbps download and ~42Mbps upload, with the exception of the basement, which was ~940M/42M.  (It has always seemed to me that the Orbi app speed is faster than the Ookla Speedtest app.) All other speeds below are with the Ookla app.
  • Upstairs satellite (eventually) - 555/40 and 723/41
  • Main floor:  wired to Xfinity modem (942/42); WiFi at the router location (928/41); elsewhere on same floor (211/39)
  • Downstairs:  wired to the satellite (244/18 and 326/40); WiFi at the satellite (396/41 and 289/32).
Message 4 of 34
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status

What mode is the ISP modem working in? Router or Bridged? This would be a double NAT (two router) condition which isn't recommended. https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT
https://kb.netgear.com/30187/How-to-fix-issues-with-Double-NAT
Couple of options,
1. Configure the modem for transparent bridge or modem only mode. Then use the Orbi router in router mode. You'll need to contact the ISP for help and information in regards to the modem being bridged correctly.
2. If you can't bridge the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, configure the modems DMZ/ExposedHost or IP Pass-Through for the IP address the Orbi router gets from the modem. Then you can use the Orbi router in Router mode.
3. Or disable all wifi radios on the modem and connect the Orbi router to the modem, configure AP mode on the Orbi router. https://kb.netgear.com/31218/How-do-I-configure-my-Orbi-router-to-act-as-an-access-point and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7LOcJ8GdDo&app=desktop 

 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.2.1(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.223/SRK30 V3.2.33.106)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 5 of 34
CrazyEddie
Aspirant

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status

Thanks! Responses to questions below:

 

What mode is the ISP modem working in? Router or Bridged? 

 

I'm pretty sure the ISP modem is in router mode, as I merely set it up with phone instructions from the ISP. I had my own modem (I believe it was one of the latest Netgear modems) that I tried to use with them, but it didn't seem to work and after some frustration, I gave up on it.  I did, however, purchase another modem that is not in use - an Arris SB8200 - if that would help in this procss.


Couple of options,
1. Configure the modem for transparent bridge or modem only mode. Then use the Orbi router in router mode. You'll need to contact the ISP for help and information in regards to the modem being bridged correctly.   

 

Let me do some investigation on this option. The last time I mucked around with the modem, I exceeded my technical capability and managed to pi$$ off everyone in the house. "It wasn't so bad before, and now it doesn't even work!" I suppose worst case is just another call to Xfinity to go back to what it is now.  If I try this option, should I try to use the new Arris at the same time, or just limit my variables?


2. If you can't bridge the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, configure the modems DMZ/ExposedHost or IP Pass-Through for the IP address the Orbi router gets from the modem. Then you can use the Orbi router in Router mode.

 

I will hold on this pending my success/failure on #2


3. Or disable all wifi radios on the modem and connect the Orbi router to the modem, configure AP mode on the Orbi router. https://kb.netgear.com/31218/How-do-I-configure-my-Orbi-router-to-act-as-an-access-point and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7LOcJ8GdDo&app=desktop 

 

Note - the Orbi router is already connected to the Xfinity modem via an ethernet cable.

 

Thanks for the help, and patience. I know that I'm quite ignorant on this topic.

 

Message 6 of 34
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status

Hopefully you can brige the modem. If not, try option #2. 

The Arris modem you have is just a modem only, no router so that would be recommended to use that modem if all else fails. 

 

 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.2.1(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.223/SRK30 V3.2.33.106)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 7 of 34
CrazyEddie
Aspirant

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status

Sorry for the delay in replying - here's the latest.

 

I finally decided to switch the Xfinity XB7-T to bridge mode. There were some initial hiccups, but I *think* I've now got things working, I think. 

 

  1. I am able to connect to the Orbi WiFi network (although I had to reboot some laptops and my iPhone to get that to happen).
  2. The Ookla Speed Test app doesn't seem to work any more on my iPhone, although I am able to run a speed test from their website.
  3. I checked the backhaul status before the change to bridge mode on the modem, and both were "Good". However, after the change to the bridge mode, the basement/second satellite is back to "Poor".  I will give it some time to see if that changes, which seemed to happen after I first added it.
  4. Speeds are about the same as before when I use the Orbi app, but much lower when I test using the Ookla Speedtest app or web test.
  5. Do I need to change any of the Orbi settings - IP, DNS or otherwise - now that the Orbi is the only router?
  6. Anything else to address the speed changes? I realize not having a Double NAT should now provide some more stability, but I'd love the stability and speed.

Thanks!

Ed 

Message 8 of 34
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status


@CrazyEddie wrote:

Sorry for the delay in replying - here's the latest.

 

I finally decided to switch the Xfinity XB7-T to bridge mode. There were some initial hiccups, but I *think* I've now got things working, I think. 

 

  1. I am able to connect to the Orbi WiFi network (although I had to reboot some laptops and my iPhone to get that to happen).
  2. The Ookla Speed Test app doesn't seem to work any more on my iPhone, although I am able to run a speed test from their website. You mght power OFF both RBR and Modem for 30 seconds then back ON with the modem first the RBR. I would reboot or power cycle all wifif devices as well so they reconnect and get a good IP address from the RBR. 
  3. I checked the backhaul status before the change to bridge mode on the modem, and both were "Good". However, after the change to the bridge mode, the basement/second satellite is back to "Poor".  I will give it some time to see if that changes, which seemed to happen after I first added it.
  4. Speeds are about the same as before when I use the Orbi app, but much lower when I test using the Ookla Speedtest app or web test. Is this with a wired PC connected to the RBR? 
  5. Do I need to change any of the Orbi settings - IP, DNS or otherwise - now that the Orbi is the only router? Shouldn't need to, however you can set different DNS on the RBR if you want to use something different than what the RBR detects from the ISP. 
  6. Anything else to address the speed changes? I realize not having a Double NAT should now provide some more stability, but I'd love the stability and speed. I would run a test with a wired PC connected behind the modem while in bridge mode to check speeds at the modem, then reconnect the RBR and wire speed test with the RBR in line with the wired PC.

 


 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.2.1(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.223/SRK30 V3.2.33.106)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 9 of 34
CrazyEddie
Aspirant

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status

Thanks for the speedy response.

 

You mght power OFF both RBR and Modem for 30 seconds then back ON with the modem first the RBR. I would reboot or power cycle all wifif devices as well so they reconnect and get a good IP address from the RBR. 

 

I did this and now I don't have any WiFi - the router is stuck on solid magenta. 

 

Snip

 

I would run a test with a wired PC connected behind the modem while in bridge mode to check speeds at the modem, then reconnect the RBR and wire speed test with the RBR in line with the wired PC.

 

Wired speed at the modem is 939 down/42 up. I can't seem to get an internet connection via direct wire connection to the RBR. Rebooting RBR now.

Message 10 of 34
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status

Ok, once you tested the PC and got internet, you need to power cycle the ISP modem again after connecting the RBR back up to the modem. 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.2.1(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.223/SRK30 V3.2.33.106)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 11 of 34
CrazyEddie
Aspirant

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status

Now nothing works. Not even wired to the modem
Message 12 of 34
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status

So press the reset button on the RBR for 15 seconds then release. Can you access the RBRs web page at 192.168.1.1 and do you see the default SSID name being broadcast at all after the reset whne the front LED starts to pulsate WHITE? 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.2.1(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.223/SRK30 V3.2.33.106)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 13 of 34
CrazyEddie
Aspirant

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status


Sorry - that entire time I've been tinkering, includign with input from Xfinity. I think that it is now OK - more below. Xfinity had to do something on their end, and then pointed out that when the Xfinity modem is changed to bridge, it will not permit a direct wired connection to the modem - only the RBR router. I ultimately got things to work after Xfinity reset (several times) and I unplugged everything while having a laptop wired directly to the RBR, plus restart of the laptop. Then repeat those steps....

 

Speed wired to the RBR is back to 940/42, and wifi speeds at the satellites vary from 766/40 to 320/35 (downstairs). I will give it another day and check the speeds again.

 

Both satellites now show "Good" on backhaul status.  

 

Thanks for the help - and fingers crossed this is good to go....

@FURRYe38 wrote:

So press the reset button on the RBR for 15 seconds then release. Can you access the RBRs web page at 192.168.1.1 and do you see the default SSID name being broadcast at all after the reset whne the front LED starts to pulsate WHITE? 


 

Message 14 of 34
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status

Ok glad you got it back up and running. Odd things at the ISP level. 

Let us know how it goes. 

 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.2.1(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.223/SRK30 V3.2.33.106)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 15 of 34
CrazyEddie
Aspirant

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status

So bizarre. It was working well for a few hours. Then my luck ran out and my wife’s iPhone and iPad stopped connecting. And my daughter’s iPhone. Then the big TV. My iPhone still seems to work on WiFi, and a laptop can connect to the internet via Ethernet to the RBR, and also via WiFi in that same room. I got another laptop to *briefly* work on WiFi, then it froze. I’ve forgotten the network, turned WiFi off and on, and restarted the devices. No change. This sucks.
Message 16 of 34
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status

Try changing to manual channel 1 and 40.

Might try changing CTS from 64 to 2347...

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.2.1(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.223/SRK30 V3.2.33.106)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 17 of 34
CrazyEddie
Aspirant

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status

Thank you! (Do you ever sleep?)

 

Just as your post was made, I had ended a tech support call w/ Netgear. The lady had me change my 2.4G channel from "auto" to 11,l and to change the MTU size from 1500 to 1492. Those tweaks *seem* to have made a difference - most importantly on my wife's devices.  (I knew it, she said "everything was fine until you spent 3 hours on the network this afternoon!")

 

Is there a good resource for other tweaks that may need to be considered next time? I don't even know what the CTS is, or manual channel, but I'm saving those for a future issue...

 

Thanks! 

 

Message 18 of 34
CrazyEddie
Aspirant

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status

I spoke too soon - the third Safari tab I opened stalled.... May need to give this a rest for tonight, but I expect I might need to find out what "manual channel" and CTS are... 

 

Are these networks always so finicky?

Message 19 of 34
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status

Ya, Orbi systems seems finiky sometimes. I'm going to bed here soon. Night. 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.2.1(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.223/SRK30 V3.2.33.106)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 20 of 34
CrazyEddie
Aspirant

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status

Thanks again for the continued help.  Here's the latest update - 

 

  • Connectivity seems intermittent again - seems to require turning WiFi on and off on each device to get the network recognized and to work
  • Basement satellite is now back to "poor" on the backhaul status
  • Speed seems to vary. This laptop (which is on the same floor as RBR, with just one wall and <30 ft separating them) was just at 77/42 until I turned off WiFi and turned back on, and then back to ~600/42 - until the laptop was dropped from the network
  • The web based router interface shows only a few of the devices in the house that are on the network - not including this laptop, my or my wife's iPhones, her iPad - but including my daughter's laptop, iPhone and Android, and the doorbell. And as I type this, two more devices were dropped from the Orbi network
Message 21 of 34
CrazyEddie
Aspirant

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status

Now on with "tech support" at 25 minutes and following the second person who has transferred me after repeatedly asking me the same irrelevant questions. "How many satellites do you have sir?" Reply - "Two, the same number you I told you two minutes ago." 

 

Great - now they hung up on me.

 

Someone warned me that all mesh systems are weak. I had hoped they were wrong, at least about this one...

Message 22 of 34
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status

Try NG support again, hopefully you'll get a different agent. I'd ask about an RMA. 

Contact a forum moderator as well.

@Blanca_O 

 

Is your modem still bridged? Please confirm that it is. 

 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.2.1(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.223/SRK30 V3.2.33.106)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 23 of 34
CrazyEddie
Aspirant

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status

Thanks @FURRYe38 I did call back and got a different agent and he's now blaming the problem on the cable modem (which is still bridged). Since I was unable to access the internet when directly connected to the modem with a laptop, he said that the RBR is unable to do the same - even though that's not accurate, as the RBR *does* access the internet and produces a WiFi signal - just that it sucks. 

 

Unfortunately I have to take a breakt to work on my job, so will report back later. I will also reach out to the moderator. Thanks for the contact info!

 

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status

Try NG support again, hopefully you'll get a different agent. I'd ask about an RMA. 

Contact a forum moderator as well.

@Blanca_O 

 

Is your modem still bridged? Please confirm that it is. 

Message 24 of 34
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBR850 poor backhaul status

I would try this, unbridge the modem and configure router mode on the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, set up AP mode on the RBR and then see what happens. If it still happening, then the Orbi AX needs to be reviewed by NG support. 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.2.1(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.223/SRK30 V3.2.33.106)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 25 of 34
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