Orbi WiFi 7 RBE973
Reply

Re: iOS 14 Private Network Address makes my iPad loose connectivity..

computersteve
Apprentice

iOS 14 Private Network Address makes my iPad loose connectivity..

I recently upgraded to iOS 14 & I'm noticing that the Orbi is not playing nice with the Private Internet Address feature. I keep loosing connectivity even though it shows that the wifi is connected. I think it has something to do with this feature not working or causing some connectivity problem when the iPad roams between Satellites. Is anyone else experincing this?? 

Model: RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 1 of 16
schumaku
Guru

Re: iOS 14 Private Network Address makes my iPad loose connectivity..

Disable this junk for your own secure home or office network. Nobody is tracing you there. No f**g reason to enable this for your Orbi system.

 

Yes: JUNK! Apple (and Google) does illegally use harmonized MAC OUI either assigned to other vendors or coming from the reserved non-assigned MAC OUI space.

Message 2 of 16
computersteve
Apprentice

Re: iOS 14 Private Network Address makes my iPad loose connectivity..

While I understand that. The Orbi firmware needs to be addressed with an update to fix this incompatibility.
Message 3 of 16
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: iOS 14 Private Network Address makes my iPad loose connectivity..

IOS 14 introduced a feature which "randomizes" the WiFi MAC address as a security feature.  This is not unique to Apple.  Other operating systems have a similar feature.  This feature can be turned off.  This would most likely "solve the problem."

 

My (limited) understanding is that the randomized MAC feature is supposed to create a new MAC address for each WiFi system that the IOS device connects to.  Once it creates a MAC for an Orbi WiFi system, that MAC should remain the same.  (Can someone comment if this is indeed what is supposed to happen?)

 

So, (1) disabling this feature would solve the problem, and (2) it would be interesting to understand exactly "what is going on" with respect to this specific iPhone and Orbi system.  Does it have a consistent MAC address?  What is happening when it "roams"?  Is "Access Control" enabled on the Orbi?

I love my Orbi.
Message 4 of 16
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: iOS 14 Private Network Address makes my iPad loose connectivity..

To further expose my ignorance.....

 

If rather than creating a new MAC address for each WiFi SSID, the new IOS 14 feature creates a new MAC address for each access point MAC address that the iPhone encounters, this will create havok for every mesh system that exists.  What the heck is a WiFi system supposed to do?

Wow, here is a device with MAC address xxx that knows my SSID/password and wants to connect.  Great.  I'll give it an IP address.

Oh, goodness.  Here is another device with a different MAC address that knows my SSID/password and wants to connect.  Cool.

Oh my.  Here is yet another device with a different MAC address that knows my SSID/password and wants to connect.  Fine dea.

 

Oh, now it MY responsibility to know that those three different devices were actually the same device that was creating new identities every time it wanted to connect?

 

Holy Crap.  No wonder the message boards are full of posts about IOS 14.

I love my Orbi.
Message 5 of 16
schumaku
Guru

Re: iOS 14 Private Network Address makes my iPad loose connectivity..


@computersteve wrote:
The Orbi firmware needs to be addressed with an update to fix this incompatibility.

Nothing to fix* on the wireless infrastructure if devices start to change thier MAC addresses randomly for whatever tin hat ideas. The DHCP IP pool here and on venues get flooded when my engineers and other users get started testing Apps on iOS 14 Beta. 

 

*Except of one: I'm voting for the proposal to modify the DHCP server and automated switch ACL behaviour: Only devices with correct registered MAC OUI must be able to get DHCP addresses and handle traffic over a L2 network. Only devices strictly following IEEE standards and RFCs - this means there is no way to abuse free or OUIs assigned to other vendors OUI as registered - are allowed to use a network. Radomized MAC and OUI will be banned. Just like random hacked ESN, IMEI, SIM, MSN, ... on mobile networks.

 

If Apple (and Google's Android) manages to _correctly_ identify a network built from different wireless access points and Mesh systems as a single network (typical on many consumer homes, small businesses, ...) then we can discuss radomized MAC - only the non-OUI part - again. Until then this "feature" is a breach of IEEE and RFCs and must be banned. 

Message 6 of 16
schumaku
Guru

Re: iOS 14 Private Network Address makes my iPad loose connectivity..


@CrimpOn wrote:

Once it creates a MAC for an Orbi WiFi system, that MAC should remain the same. 


Correction: Once it creates a MAC for a network, that MAC should remain the same.

 


@CrimpOn wrote:

Once it creates a MAC for an Orbi WiFi system, that MAC should remain the same. 

 

Can someone comment if this is indeed what is supposed to happen?


It's supposed to happen that the device does use the same randomized MAC when connecting to the very same network. However, the iOS 14 implementation s***s. It appears that iOS 14 does create random MAC for the same network under various conditions.

 

That's of course not what the tin hats want - large scale WiFi networks which can be located at many places can represent the same network.

 

By the way: Every decent OS is already identifying the (wireless) network, based on SSID, default gateway MAC, and more - for the "connect to this network" automatically.

 

Message 7 of 16
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: iOS 14 Private Network Address makes my iPad loose connectivity..

IOS 14 users need to post about this or give feed back to APPLE. This is a APPLE issue and they are repsonsible for making sure it works with wifi routers networks. Please ensure you make contact with APPLE support and give them feed back on there products and systems. 

Remember, this all worked prior to you installing iOS 14. 

 


@computersteve wrote:

I recently upgraded to iOS 14 & I'm noticing that the Orbi is not playing nice with the Private Internet Address feature. I keep loosing connectivity even though it shows that the wifi is connected. I think it has something to do with this feature not working or causing some connectivity problem when the iPad roams between Satellites. Is anyone else experincing this?? 


 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode  | Wifi Router RBKE963 and RBE973 | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX30/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MK93S, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, RAXE500, RAX120v2, RAX50v2, XR450/500/700/1000,

Message 8 of 16
computersteve
Apprentice

Re: iOS 14 Private Network Address makes my iPad loose connectivity..

So that is not what is happening lol.. I have about 5 different iPads all the same device with different mac addresses.

Message 9 of 16
schumaku
Guru

Re: iOS 14 Private Network Address makes my iPad loose connectivity..


@FURRYe38 wrote:

Remember, this all worked prior to you installing iOS 14. 

There is still the option to use the default WiFi MAC and cross check if the issue is related to the random MAC *****.

 


@FURRYe38 wrote:

IOS 14 users need to post about this or give feed back to APPLE. This is a APPLE issue and they are responsible for making sure it works with wifi routers networks. Please ensure you make contact with APPLE support and give them feed back on there products and systems.  

It the devices don't play nice e.g. flipping MAC addresses between he random and the default one very quickly while "seamless" roaming or during short disconnections from an SSID (that's what does make up the "network") - this can and will interfere with the any WiFi network - it's up to the WiFi client maker to address this. 

 

The Android 11 implementation seems to be very robust against such issues - no noise in the net 8-)

Message 10 of 16
computersteve
Apprentice

Re: iOS 14 Private Network Address makes my iPad loose connectivity..

So it seems that iOS 14 is a mess with WiFi .. Read more about it here - IOS 14 WiFi 

Message 11 of 16
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: iOS 14 Private Network Address makes my iPad loose connectivity..

Smiley Frustrated

Ya think someone would have seen in this in the open beta...

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode  | Wifi Router RBKE963 and RBE973 | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX30/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MK93S, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, RAXE500, RAX120v2, RAX50v2, XR450/500/700/1000,

Message 12 of 16
anthonyng5p
Apprentice

Re: iOS 14 Private Network Address makes my iPad loose connectivity..

I just wanted to add to this thread because it caught my attention. I had a problem with an iPhone 7 on my home network with an RAX50 and an EAX20 range extender. Indeed, the iPhone7 would lose wifi connectivity when it would initially associate with the EAX20, then move out of range and into an area of higher signal strength with the RAX50. The private MAC address setting seemed to be the culprit, very likely for the same reasons mentioned here. Interestingly, this does not seem to affect an iPhone XR (or, I have yet to experience that problem). It could simply be that the WiFi performance of the phones differ. However, changing the private MAC address setting to "off" fixed this issue.

Message 13 of 16
sunnyorlando
Aspirant

Re: iOS 14 Private Network Address makes my iPad loose connectivity..

I'm wondering if this is related to my issue. If not, then can someone re-direct me to the right place or solution?

I'd like to understand why is it that in a WiFi system that has 'access control' turned on to' block all new devices from connecting', any apple device can connect without authorization.

 

Interestingly... yesterday I ttried to disallow '(block)' one of these, and the router responded that I 'cannot block using the same device I'm logged in with' - an android! Yet the device I was blocking was an iPhone identified by MAC association to vendor. But that aside, I cant seem to block any Apple devices using access control.

Message 14 of 16
schumaku
Guru

Re: iOS 14 Private Network Address makes my iPad loose connectivity..


@sunnyorlando wrote:

I'd like to understand why is it that in a WiFi system that has 'access control' turned on to' block all new devices from connecting', any apple device can connect without authorization.


Definitively something very wrong or not working as expected if this is true. What magic WiFi system model and firmware are we facing here?

 


@sunnyorlando wrote:

Interestingly... yesterday I ttried to disallow '(block)' one of these, and the router responded that I 'cannot block using the same device I'm logged in with' - an android! Yet the device I was blocking was an iPhone identified by MAC association to vendor.


Netgear (and other WiFi device makers!) have either a white list or a black list implemented. If a WiFi system is configured to require a management action on the first connection - allowing a device - it's in white list mode.

 

Thus you can't block any individual device (resp. whatever MAC address was used) into a black list.

 


@sunnyorlando wrote:

But that aside, I cant seem to block any Apple devices using access control.


Not related to be an Apple device, as explained above. There should be a way to remove it from the white list of allowed devices instead.

 

The subject "iOS 14 Private Network Address makes my iPad loose connectivity" isn't related here - the named iOS 14 system does come with a random MAC address, not allowed in the white list, thus blocked access. Perfectly correct.

 

Enjoy the Florida sun in winter!

 

-Kurt

 

Message 15 of 16
sunnyorlando
Aspirant

Re: iOS 14 Private Network Address makes my iPad loose connectivity..

Thanks.. I posted here because I saw some similarities on th thread.

As to the 'magic. WiFi syste, its a WNDR4300 v2 on version V1.0.0.58, with aWN2000RPT v3 on the other side of the house.

But whats happening is  exactly like that. And I agree that something is not right.

Message 16 of 16
Top Contributors
Discussion stats
  • 15 replies
  • 5999 views
  • 10 kudos
  • 6 in conversation
Announcements

Orbi WiFi 7