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Luminary

Don’t buy Orbi Pro…Buy something else. Anything else…

Don’t buy Orbi Pro…Buy something else. Anything else…

 

I own Orbi Pro with two Pro Satellites. I also own the Orbi Outdoor RBS5OY.

 

Here are my problems and reasons to avoid anything product Netgear manufactures. If your intension is for business.

 

  1. I updated to the recent GA firmware 2.2.2.210. It did not cause any obvious problems on day-1, beyond the normal Orbi known issues (drops, reboots, etc). However, I did notice my ability to transfer large files across my WIFI dropped speed considerably. I have no illusion that WIFI speeds don’t range and fluctuate randomly. I also know interference and other variables can cause problems. But I have historically been able to get 300-500 Mbps tested and validated using INTERNAL LAN TEST NETWORK PERFORMANCE TOOLS, not internet speed checks which are less reliable... I am a 20 year tech worker with extensive knowledge and experience with enterprise network devices, including WIFI and RF products. I know how to tweak and tune my Orbi to insure the most optimal performance. So, why did my speeds drop to 100-200 after applying the recent firmware. I did role back to 2.2.1.210. Factory resets, reboots, full re-configure. Hours wasted… Same result. Slow speeds. I considered rolling back to previous firmware, but you must be using at least 2.2.1.210 to avoid Netgear Orbi automatic updates. And typical Netgear. Silent! Repetitive! Script Kiddy responses. You may think you are interacting with a BOT with template answers. You are ON YOUR OWN! After they get your money.

 

  1. Netgear opened a thread MONTHS ago. Asking Orbi Pro users what features they would like to see. Most Orbi Pro users quickly understood that “PRO” was nothing more than a spin-off of Orbi Consumer version with nearly 90 percent parity. But, we can forgive Netgear. After-all, they are interacting and working with the end-user (that’s you) to build Orbi Pro into something truly business-like, custom built with the user’s input as the driving force. Current Day…Months later….NOTHING WE SUGGESTED has been implemented. They “tried” to use clever tricks such as “VLAN SUPPORT” has been added. But we all quickly learned. It was for ISP and router mode only. As of today, there is little, nearly ZERO difference between Orbi Consumer and Pro versions. Yet, Pro users paid far more to have the “PRO” logo on their product.
  2. Netgear advertised another VERY COOL product called Orbi Outdoor RBS5OY. I do have a very large outdoor space. And often I like to stream music and control my smart devices via my smartphone, and maybe do some work outside. So Orbi Outdoor was a GIFT from Netgear, as now my entire outdoor space is covered with great WIFI!!! Thanks Netgear! A true gift! Or…is it a gift with a nasty secret that Netgear has yet to respond. The RBS5OY is based on the Orbi consumer version. Not Pro. Yet, Netgear very openly and loudly claims this RBS5OY is compatible and fully works with Orbi Pro. But is that TRUE???? I have asked Orbi why the firmware for RBS5OY is not aligned with Orbi Pro. The obvious answer is the RBS5OY firmware code is based on Orbi consumer firmware. So, as Orbi Pro receives new updates, promised features, BUG FIXES….as Netgear has released 2 new updates for Orbi Pro….Does anyone notice Orbi Outdoor is not getting those same updates? How does Netgear intend to unify the new features and BUG FIXES and stability and other advertised “Pro” stuff…when you have this third-wheel product they charged you $500 for….that is not running the same firmware? Imagine your car manufacture selling you a performance part for your car. Only they updated your car with fixes and other changes, only to learn your performance part was not updated to work those changes. Does this mean the manufacture is going to fully refund you for an add-on that will not work properly with your updated vehicle?

 

Still, no reply from Netgear about this? But they got your money.

 

  1. Orbi support is widely known to be a joke. You are better and more wise to use Reddit or other methods to solve your problems. Any idea of a business using Orbi Pro and expecting business style support. GOOD LUCK! Considered yourself warned.

 

 

I am not saying Netgear is the horrible company. I believe Netgear does many great things. Perhaps Orbi Pro was and is more than Netgear can handle. This is not Netgear’s first attempt to get inside the business tech market. But common sense people. How many Netgear products do you see within ANY tech company?

 

For the many users that often complain to this forum. I say this with respect and understanding. STOP!!!!!!! Netgear has already given us the answer. They don’t care! They are not going to follow through with promises. They are not going to improve support! Orbi Pro is NEVER going to be what you want it to be. Go buy something else. Netgear has been responding to all of us since the day Orbi was released. What has changed? They fix one thing…They break another….They promise 5 features….You are lucky if you get one of those features usually a year or longer later…Netgear has a scripted and default response to any problem you have. It “may” be possible they only have 3-4 support people working for them and they heavily rely on a copy/paste response to all questions and problems.

 

I own Orbi Pro. I drank the kooliade. But I also protected myself via a third-party warranty that will allow Orbi to be replaced. I thought I would wait until early 2019 and see what Netgear does. Give them a chance! Be patent, as my parents taught me. But they also taught me to NOT BE A FOOL….

 

So…Don’t buy Orbi Pro…Buy something else. Anything else…

 

I will live with Orbi for a few more weeks. But I am positive I will need to use that warranty and have Orbi replaced. Perhaps dig a little deeper in my pocket for something TRULLY made for business.

 

Of course, I am open to any response from Netgear. I am a civilize and open-minded person. I believe in fairness and respect and honesty. I am willing to work with Netgear concerning Beta firmware that specifically addresses promised business PRO features. But not allowing myself to be your lab rat….while you continue your course of using consumers as your testing ground for baseline support and stability that SHOULD have already need delivered.

 

As of now…I have a 2-3 year old Gen-1 802.11AC ASUS RT3000 that is faster than this $2000 Orbi Pro…

 

Message 1 of 12

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NETGEAR Expert

Re: Don’t buy Orbi Pro…Buy something else. Anything else…

Dear customer,

 

Throughput issues :

Please open a support case for the throughput issue you are facing on 2.2.2.20.

We will try to get back on it asap. you can use support chat window inside Insight app to contact netgear support. We take quality and stability very seriously inside netgear across all our products. We do a full stabilitiy test and full regression test before we release any firmware out to our customers. so there should be something more than just simple regression issue.

 

 

General topic brought out in this thread:

 

2) Orbipro vs Orbi

 Orbi pro software has many more features than home Orbi.

here is a quick list ( not in any order and is not complete)

1) Insight support allows manging OrbiPro remotly via insight app as well as full fledged insight webportal. (feature supported is growing every release of insight)

2) 3 SSIDs. 2 Pvt SSID and 1 guest SSID. user can map SSID1 and/or SSID2  to ethernet ports.

3) Guest SSID support basic captive portal, Facebook captive portal that allows retailer to move traffic to their facebook page when giving out free wifi. that feature has multiple options that includes giving guest wifi for people without facebook login also.

4) SRR60 (OrbiPro router) supports SRS60(4 port desktop), SRC60(OrbiPro ceiling/wallmount that works on Poe+)  and RBSY50 (Outdoor). (as off Jan 2019)

 We are trying to keep a quaterly cadence bringing in maintiance releases that will have bug fixes, 

 

3)Different levels of Pro/SMB products.

We have three levels/familes of wireless products for SMB.

Insight managed WAC5xx (WAC510, WAC505, WAC540.....)

Insight managed OrbiPros (SRR60 + SRS60/SRC60/RSBY50)

Desktop Access points (WAC104, WAC124)

 

Mainstream enterprise/SMB APs:

  1. WAC510 (2x2, Long range, wall mount/celing mount) ,
  2. WAC505 (2x2 omni directional antenna, can be used as desktop, wallmount and ceiling mount) 
  3. WAC540 (Tri-Radio 2x2+2x2+4x4, wall/ceiling mount)

few of  support  features include WPA-enterprise, fastroaming, VLAN tagging, LAG, LLDP etc. Almost all of useful enterprise features like Instant Wi-Fi (automatically choosing best channels, Tx power for all the AP in a location)

 

OrbiPro :

4x4 is dedicated for backhaul.

2x2 + 2x2 for serving clients.

This work as router/access points and many of the pro features. but is mainly ment for DIY user who do not want lots of custom configurations and overrides.

WAC124 : is a desktop AP/router that is capable of 4x4 speeds.

 

4)Software release cadence :

 We are trying to keep a quaterly cadence bringing in maintiance releases .

If we see a more important bug and fix, we release the fix asap. so far we have about 7 release for OrbiPro. every release we have added new feature and added 

View solution in original post

Message 2 of 12

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Highlighted
NETGEAR Expert

Re: Don’t buy Orbi Pro…Buy something else. Anything else…

Dear customer,

 

Throughput issues :

Please open a support case for the throughput issue you are facing on 2.2.2.20.

We will try to get back on it asap. you can use support chat window inside Insight app to contact netgear support. We take quality and stability very seriously inside netgear across all our products. We do a full stabilitiy test and full regression test before we release any firmware out to our customers. so there should be something more than just simple regression issue.

 

 

General topic brought out in this thread:

 

2) Orbipro vs Orbi

 Orbi pro software has many more features than home Orbi.

here is a quick list ( not in any order and is not complete)

1) Insight support allows manging OrbiPro remotly via insight app as well as full fledged insight webportal. (feature supported is growing every release of insight)

2) 3 SSIDs. 2 Pvt SSID and 1 guest SSID. user can map SSID1 and/or SSID2  to ethernet ports.

3) Guest SSID support basic captive portal, Facebook captive portal that allows retailer to move traffic to their facebook page when giving out free wifi. that feature has multiple options that includes giving guest wifi for people without facebook login also.

4) SRR60 (OrbiPro router) supports SRS60(4 port desktop), SRC60(OrbiPro ceiling/wallmount that works on Poe+)  and RBSY50 (Outdoor). (as off Jan 2019)

 We are trying to keep a quaterly cadence bringing in maintiance releases that will have bug fixes, 

 

3)Different levels of Pro/SMB products.

We have three levels/familes of wireless products for SMB.

Insight managed WAC5xx (WAC510, WAC505, WAC540.....)

Insight managed OrbiPros (SRR60 + SRS60/SRC60/RSBY50)

Desktop Access points (WAC104, WAC124)

 

Mainstream enterprise/SMB APs:

  1. WAC510 (2x2, Long range, wall mount/celing mount) ,
  2. WAC505 (2x2 omni directional antenna, can be used as desktop, wallmount and ceiling mount) 
  3. WAC540 (Tri-Radio 2x2+2x2+4x4, wall/ceiling mount)

few of  support  features include WPA-enterprise, fastroaming, VLAN tagging, LAG, LLDP etc. Almost all of useful enterprise features like Instant Wi-Fi (automatically choosing best channels, Tx power for all the AP in a location)

 

OrbiPro :

4x4 is dedicated for backhaul.

2x2 + 2x2 for serving clients.

This work as router/access points and many of the pro features. but is mainly ment for DIY user who do not want lots of custom configurations and overrides.

WAC124 : is a desktop AP/router that is capable of 4x4 speeds.

 

4)Software release cadence :

 We are trying to keep a quaterly cadence bringing in maintiance releases .

If we see a more important bug and fix, we release the fix asap. so far we have about 7 release for OrbiPro. every release we have added new feature and added 

View solution in original post

Message 2 of 12
Highlighted
Luminary

Re: Don’t buy Orbi Pro…Buy something else. Anything else…

WOW! A response! Something hard to get from Netgear.

 

Thank You!

 

  1. Orbi vs Orbi Pro – Very interesting response to attempt separating Orbi and Orbi Pro as different products. So, by your opinion…If I take a base Honda Accord, add a Bose Premium Radio, 2 additional speakers, additional options for rims and tires and maybe some color paint choices…Does this made the Honda Accord different? Or, is it the same car, same frame, same engine, same 90 percent everything, only with some add-ons that the consumer may or may not care for?

 

  1. You speak about bug fixes. OK, How many “quarterly releases” does it take to resolve wired backhaul and many other issues that have been reported repeatedly via this forum and many others. Here is a list…(not in any order and is not complete)…

 

Wired backhaul still not working properly. Still using STP, not RSTP. The Orbi Mobile app cannot connect to Orbi via any AP node being used that is connected via wired backhaul. Of course, many wired backhaul users will be connected via a managed switch. Netgear seems to be very anti-managed switches (though you do sell them). What business on Earth is not going to have at least one managed switch. Many users reporting slowness of using ethernet when wired devices are connected to Orbi. And I believe it is NETGEAR who is still instructing users to “disable Daisy Chain” because your developers may have broken that feature and it works backwards. Still not fixed yet.

 

Orbi Satellites being forced to the main Orbi router, despite a satellite being closer and with a much better signal. I, and many other, witness a freshly booted, and firmware laoded, Orbi show Satellites connecting to closer/better satellites to create a true MESH. But within minutes all satellites will be FORCED to the main router…causing slower speeds (throughput). This has been reported for months, maybe even a year….Not fixed yet.

 

 

You can only user the WAN port with the main router. Otherwise you get the purple light and internet will be reported as DOWN. Reported for MONTHS. Not fixed yet.

 

Ability to have separate BSSIDs for 2G and 5G….I had a Playstation 4 Pro (802.11AC device) within 6 feet of the main Orbi Pro Router. Fresh firmware and factory reset. No excuses Netgear can provide. I did a status check of the PS4…Its connected via 2G…Not 5G…I tried to play some games…COD BOPs4….Disconnected from server. Can’t connect to server In the middle of a game and something I have never seen...An icon showing the game disconnected from the physical network. LOL, never seen that icon in my life. I moved the PS4 back to my Cisco switch….works beautifully, played for hours without a problem. Sony’s fault, right??? Though I was hoping I could remove another Cat7 cable from my life. Guess not….Thanks $2000 Orbi Pro….Still not fixed yet….

 

VLAN Support for BSSIDs for Router and AP mode…..Still not delivered yet. Does it occur to Netgear that MAYBE a BUSINESS CUSTOMER wants to use their REAL Firewall Layer-7 UTM/Router. Maybe they have multiple subnets and want logical separation??? Maybe a BUSINESS customer understands that WIFI devices really should be on their own network due to several known methods of hacking, phishing, malware, spyware, etc, etc….Does not Netgear know with all of their BUSINESS experience that no true network engineer is going to allow WIRELESS to live on the same network space as wired devices and servers????? Are you TRYING to compromise your customers security?

 

Better QoS support…NOPE…Not yet….But as your forum says for all things…

 

.”We are reviewing this request and will have a plan for implementation in an upcoming firmware release.” – Yeah….SURE YOU WILL…in the year 2020…LOL! Maybe…

 

I have one satellite connected via wired backhaul….After a full factory reset, reboots, and now needing to re-configure EVERYTHING as I rolled back to your previous regression tested firmware (LOL). I changed my 2G channel to 11 last night. To avoid problems with Zigbee devices on a lower band. Of course all units had to reboot/reset for the change. Which means every 5G WIFI client gets disconnected (for a 2G channel change). After reboots, syncs, and several attempts to change that channel. The wired backhaul satellite will not take the new channel. Let me guess…..CALL SUPPORT????

 

This is just a short lists of Orbi and Orbi Pro problems. I can continue, but time is limited.

 

All of these problems and feature requests have been reported to Netgear for MONTHS. Some over a year…..So, how many firmware releases, and MONTHS, do you need to fix these problems?

 

Clearly Netgear has had TIME to develop, create, prototype and field test and QA newer products. As you share with us….

 

SRS60(4 port desktop), SRC60(OrbiPro ceiling/wallmount that works on Poe+)  and RBSY50 (Outdoor). (as off Jan 2019)

 

We have three levels/familes of wireless products for SMB.

Insight managed WAC5xx (WAC510, WAC505, WAC540.....)

Insight managed OrbiPros (SRR60 + SRS60/SRC60/RSBY50)

Desktop Access points (WAC104, WAC124)

 

Mainstream enterprise/SMB APs:

  1. WAC510 (2x2, Long range, wall mount/celing mount) ,
  2. WAC505 (2x2 omni directional antenna, can be used as desktop, wallmount and ceiling mount) 
  3. WAC540 (Tri-Radio 2x2+2x2+4x4, wall/ceiling mount)

 

GET THAT NEW MONEY NETGEAR!!!! That is clearly all that matters to you....

 

Tell me Netgear Employee. What’s your support plan for these other products? Hopefully its better than Netgear’s Orbi and Orbi Pro.

 

“so far we have about 7 release for OrbiPro. every release we have added new feature and added”…(Next time have someone else write the response. Grammar corrections needed…)

 

Forgive my ignorance. Ummm…7 releases. Why is Orbi Outdoor still 3 releases behind Orbi Pro? How do new features you claim carry forward on a “business” or consumer network when one of the devices DOES NOT support that feature because it’s using older code?

 

You claim…

 

”We do a full stabilitiy test and full regression test before we release any firmware out to our customers. so there should be something more than just simple regression issue.”

 

Please understand that I am a 20 years I.T. Pro. I spend countless days, weeks, months looking at scripts and APIs, etc. Every time a software vendor releases a new version of their product. The first question is ALWAYS….”Will it support my existing work/configuration?”

 

We answer yes or no, based on the software OEMs ability to properly perform regression testing to insure all prior SDK commands continue to work.

 

Can you imagine the customer response if I replied.

 

 “No, kinda, maybe…you may need to WIPE YOUR ENTIRE CONFIG, RESET TO FACTORY because some older “NON-WORKING” commands could be left lingering within and cause problems.” Basically…NO! We don’t do quality regression testing.

 

Doesn’t regression testing mean, “we ran extensive tests to insure old commands and scripts and configurations work with the new code”. I am sure that is what it means….So, why would a full reload be required nearly every time Netgear releases new firmware? If Cisco, HPE, Arista, Juniper, Riverbed, Ubiquitior other premium network OEMs did this….They would get their product REMOVED….

 

 

But this is Netgear’s answer to most problems. FACTORY RESET, RELOAD FIRMWARE and re-do everything. Oh, and don’t forget to DISABLE EVERY FEATURE ON YOUR ORBI PRODUCT per Netgear if experiencing problems… There is no business on PLANET EARTH that would accept that answer.

 

And now you are introducing “CEILING MOUNTED ORBI”….WOW!!! YAY!. Now your customers can put their life at risk and climb ladders every time Netgear releases new firmware that doesn’t work or breaks your Orbi for the 10thtime, and Netgear’s response will be….”Climb on ladder, with pointed object required to press and hold the reset button, then wait for light to turn WHITE and then press Sync button”. And you want the customer to do this every quarterly release with your “regression tested code that provides bug fixes for heavily reported issues over the past YEAR!!!!” Only to discover many of the problems still exist…?

 

Good luck with that…

 

Thank you again for your response and solutions you provided to our many Orbi problems. I don’t see any solutions. But maybe your response is hiding it. I will go back a read it again.

 

 

 

Message 3 of 12
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Guru

Re: Don’t buy Orbi Pro…Buy something else. Anything else…


@Flash008 wrote:

VLAN Support for BSSIDs for Router and AP mode…..Still not delivered yet.


Not sure where you have seen a confirmation that Orbi Pro will ever get proper VLAN support. There was a discussion with the Netgear Business Unit General Manager @johngm a while back concluding there will be just a better seggregation between the three SSID networks.

 

In a way I would like htis discussion moved to the Connect with the SMB GM so John does get the right attention on what is (not) going on with the Orbi Pro.

 

Both Insight and Orbi Pro was initially released in 2017, with about one month difference.

 

Some more things are concerning me beyond of the ongoing Orbi and Orbi Pro problems

 

  • How comes a what supposed to be simple to deploy network infrastructure needs manual user configuration for wired vs wireles backbone?
  •  Why aren't the (fast, expensive, energy intensive) 80211ac 1733 Mbit/s 5 GHz radios made available to the user access if not serving the network backbone?
  • How did it came that Netgear released an Insight router (BR500) which is obviously based on the very similar [limited] archotecture like Orbi Pro router, namely no workable multi-VLAN on tagged connections?
Message 4 of 12
Highlighted
Luminary

Re: Don’t buy Orbi Pro…Buy something else. Anything else…

Per your question of my comment...”VLAN Support for BSSIDs for Router and AP mode”.

My comment comes from Netgear’s response to my question MONTHS AGO. When the “vlan supported firmware” was released. I use Orbi via AP Mode and asked Netgear on this forum when vlan support would be enabled using AP Mode. The reply from Netgear was “in a future release”.

Case-and-point...STILL NOT DELIVERED!!!
Message 5 of 12
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Apprentice

Re: Don’t buy Orbi Pro…Buy something else. Anything else…

Agree with the OP completely. Terrible expereince with Orbi and many many wasted hours.

 

Replaced it over a year ago with Amplifi HD and not a sngle issue ever since. Granted it may not have all the bells & whistles that the Orbo promises BUT those it deos have actualy work.  

Message 6 of 12
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Aspirant

Re: Don’t buy Orbi Pro…Buy something else. Anything else…

I purchased my Orbi Pro at the end of May, but I'm yet to use it as I'm waiting for my new internet service to be activated. I'm really hoping that I made the right decision spending the extra money on the Orbi Pro, but from what I now read on here the future does't look good for the Orbi Pro or Netgear. I was considering purchasing the BR500 to put infont of the Orbi Pro, but I think that would most likely be throwing good money after bad.

Message 7 of 12
Highlighted
NETGEAR Expert

Re: Don’t buy Orbi Pro…Buy something else. Anything else…

Hello,

 

You would not need the BR500 as the Orbi Pro does support router mode. Depending on your network configuration the BR500 would be ideal for more advance network setups such as site to site VPN, VLANs with DHCP pools, and more firewall and traffic rule configurations. 

Message 8 of 12
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Aspirant

Re: Don’t buy Orbi Pro…Buy something else. Anything else…

Thank you MrJoshW, my main reason for thinking the BR500 might be a worthwhile addition is that I want a easy hassle free way to gain access to my home network and in particular my security cameras (not netgear). But looking at your response it might be good to have some of the more advanced features you mentioned.Also is the firewall more robust?

Message 9 of 12
Highlighted
NETGEAR Expert

Re: Don’t buy Orbi Pro…Buy something else. Anything else…

Comparing between both products. One of the firewall features the BR500 supports since it supports VLANs and VLAN routing you can setup traffic rules to allow or restrict VLAN access. Other features such settings to ender a DMZ server and DoS protection as well. If you plan to setup a small environment of 10-20 employees and do not need the VLAN features found on the BR500 the OrbiPro would work without the need of adding a BR500.

Message 10 of 12
Highlighted
Guru

Re: Don’t buy Orbi Pro…Buy something else. Anything else…

The BR500 would be hassle-free (one day, we still hope for the feature set as promised - and managed by Insight) when combined with Insight GC PoE switches and (wired) Insight WAC.

Message 11 of 12
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Aspirant

Re: Don’t buy Orbi Pro…Buy something else. Anything else…

Thanks for your post, I'm sad I read it to late though. I bought my Orbi Pro system for over a year ago and have had trouble with the wifi connection daily. This weekend I did a complete reinstallation, disconnect everytning, reset, update firmware, install... and the system worked almost one day (WOW!). I can't explain how fed up I am with this **bleep**. Like I wrote in a review this evening (where I bought my system): Even the free routers you get from your internet provider is better than this stuff!

 

So people, please read what this man have to say before you buy new wifi systems for small businesses. It will save you alot of frustration and alot of money! But if you are addicted to internet and want a system to force you to get offline, then Orbi Pro is your system!

Message 12 of 12
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