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Re: SXK80 3.3.0.122 Fast Roaming Option Gone

blunderdome85
Luminary

SXK80 3.3.0.122 Fast Roaming Option Gone

Just decided to try the new 3.3.0.122 firmware and noticed that the option to enable/disable fast roaming under Advanced Setup -> Wireless Settings is gone.  Factory reset after the update and confirmed that the option is still missing.  I'm assuming this is a bug as surely Netgear is not removing options/features from a Pro series of products?  Or has the option moved and I'm simply blind?

Thanks

Message 1 of 17

Accepted Solutions
quagmire1
Luminary

Re: SXK80 3.3.0.122 Fast Roaming Option Gone

New firmware V4.0.0.118 is now out for the SXK80 and the Fast Roaming Option is back!

 

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Message 16 of 17

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blunderdome85
Luminary

Re: SXK80 3.3.0.122 Fast Roaming Option Gone

Quick followup - reverted to 3.2.6.100 and the setting is once again available.  Netgear, please advise.

Message 2 of 17
schumaku
Guru

Re: SXK80 3.3.0.122 Fast Roaming Option Gone

@BruceGuo please.

Message 3 of 17
blunderdome85
Luminary

Re: SXK80 3.3.0.122 Fast Roaming Option Gone

I'm still on 3.2.6 for the moment - can anyone on 3.3.0 check to see if they just moved it to the debug page?

Message 4 of 17
quagmire1
Luminary

Re: SXK80 3.3.0.122 Fast Roaming Option Gone

Way ahead of you - I already checked that.  It is *not* on the debug page.

Message 5 of 17
blunderdome85
Luminary

Re: SXK80 3.3.0.122 Fast Roaming Option Gone

Did some testing over the weekend and it looks like fast roaming is on with no way to disable it via the GUI.  I for one need the option to turn it off restored as fast roaming is too agressive for some of my IoT devices.

Message 6 of 17
blunderdome85
Luminary

Re: SXK80 3.3.0.122 Fast Roaming Option Gone

Got a PM from @DavidGo earlier this week saying they would check on this and get back to me ASAP but nothing since.  I would think this is a pretty straightforward, "Oops, we made a mistake" or "Yes, we intentionally removed a feature".  Can we get an official response, please?

Message 7 of 17
schumaku
Guru

Re: SXK80 3.3.0.122 Fast Roaming Option Gone


@blunderdome85 wrote:

I for one need the option to turn it off restored as fast roaming is too agressive for some of my IoT devices.


Can't see on how Fast Roaming (this is about 802.11r BSS Fast Transition) should have an impact on what you claim here.

 

It's in no way an active method changing the behaviour of any wireless clients roaming, like BSS transition management with Disassociation Imminent allows the network’s control layer to influence client roaming behavior by providing it the load information of nearby access points (unrelated to FT, this is part of 802.11v). The device takes this information into account when deciding among the possible roam targets This helps devices search quickly for nearby APs that are available as roaming targets by creating an optimized list of channels.  When the signal strength of the current connection weakens, your device will scan for target APs from this list (but again, this is not FT, much more 802.11k). The major benefit of FT is when using enterprise security to save part of the 802.1x RADIUS handshake, Less obvious, it works even with PSK, here the benefit isn't as noticeable as with 802.1x, because you don’t have the added latency for remote RADIUS reauthentication.

 

Most simple IoT WiFI STA are unlikely FT enabled, for these enabling and disabling FT does not change anything.

 

This does not answer why you have not got any feedback from Netgear yet.

 

A possible reason is the higher complexity eg. when an AP does support multiple FT and non-FT modes, highest security mode is always preferred by wireless client. This starts with the newer Fast BSS Transition (802.11r) for WPA3, starting with FT-SAE (WPA3-Personal) and FT-EAP (WPA3-Enterprise), whereas FT-PSK (WPA2-Personal) and WPA3 transition modes are included, and have PMF enabled. 

Message 8 of 17
blunderdome85
Luminary

Re: SXK80 3.3.0.122 Fast Roaming Option Gone


@schumaku wrote:

@blunderdome85 wrote:

I for one need the option to turn it off restored as fast roaming is too agressive for some of my IoT devices.


Can't see on how Fast Roaming (this is about 802.11r BSS Fast Transition) should have an impact on what you claim here.


I appreciate the explanation but, as you said, it's not really relevant as to why the option was removed and why we haven't had a response.

 

I can tell you from personal experience that with the option on, my IoT devices become signficantly less "sticky" and bounce between the APs quite a bit more than with the option off.  Cameras, for example, will bounce every couple of hours with the setting on whereas with it off they'll stay attached for hundreds of hours.  Our mobile devices also tend to bounce around quite a bit more and inevitably encounter connection issues as a result.

I understand how 802.11r is supposed to work but, frankly, I don't know for certain if Netgear is using "Fast Roaming" as a blanket term that also covers things like RSSI thresholds or in the stricter sense that you described.

Regardless, having it on is much more a problem for my network than having it off.  And we deserve an explanation for why this option (whether it works for you or not) is now missing.

 

 

 

 

 

Message 9 of 17
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: SXK80 3.3.0.122 Fast Roaming Option Gone

NG seems to be moving away from having FR option in Orbi AX systems. When I first got my Orbi AX 8 series, FR was not present, also not present was Daisy Chain and Beamforming options. I believe these are not being handled internally and automatic by the FW system and NG seems to be migrating to removing any user UI facing options and letting the system handle these features by automatic means. 

 

 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM1200 Modem |  Wifi Router Orbi RBK752 (Router Mode), Wired Backhaul and R8500 with Orbi RBKE963 (AP Mode), | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700

Message 10 of 17
blunderdome85
Luminary

Re: SXK80 3.3.0.122 Fast Roaming Option Gone


@FURRYe38 wrote:

NG seems to be moving away from having FR option in Orbi AX systems. When I first got my Orbi AX 8 series, FR was not present, also not present was Daisy Chain and Beamforming options. I believe these are not being handled internally and automatic by the FW system and NG seems to be migrating to removing any user UI facing options and letting the system handle these features by automatic means. 

 

 


Are you talking about the RBK852?

If so, that's unfortunate but the SXK series is supposed to have more options than the standard Orbi models.  FR, for example, isn't mentioned in the RBK850 user manual while it is in the SXK manual.  The small business environments that these are marketed towards can be a little more dynamic than the typical home user environment and we need to be able tune some of these features.  It's already a bit of a joke how little control we have over the devices, but the idea that Netgear would take away more of the few options that we had to begin with is very concerning.

Along those lines, I did hear back from @DavidGo this morning and was told that Netgear is "...using a proprietary method to deal with AP steering and band-steering for clients..." and was asked for logs/info based on the problems I've had with the feature.  Obviously I can't provide logs as I'm not running a feature on a production network that causes us to have stability issues.  No real answer as to why the option to simply turn off the feature was removed or if it will return, but I've specifically asked that question and will report back unless, of couse, David replies here instead.

 

 

 

Message 11 of 17
blunderdome85
Luminary

Re: SXK80 3.3.0.122 Fast Roaming Option Gone

Was just informed by David that option is being removed from the pro line the same way that it's been removed from the home product line.

 

For the life of me I can't understand this decision.  I've requested that they move the option to the debug page rather than removing it altogether, but I'm not optimistic.  It seems I'll be stranded at 3.2.6.100 for the foreseeable future.

Don't worry, though - they're updating the manual to remove reference to the option having been there.  Smiley LOL

Message 12 of 17
quagmire1
Luminary

Re: SXK80 3.3.0.122 Fast Roaming Option Gone

Even though I had not seen a need, personally, to change the fast roaming setting, I'm disappointed by the removal of the choice.

 

The main reason I selcted the Orbi Pro was because it had much more flexible firmware than the consumer level Orbis. I think I should be trusted to configure the Orbi Pro however I want. I was doing networking before Netgear was in business. (Any old timers remember Proteon?) Trust me to figure out if a change I've made isn't working, and needs to be reverted.

 

An attitude of "trust us - we know best" just makes me angry. Netgear - take note.

Message 13 of 17
Mstrbig
Master

Re: SXK80 3.3.0.122 Fast Roaming Option Gone

I dealt with TECH SUPPORT for weeks with issues where devices that connect to the Satellite have fair and poor connections, even though they are 10 feet away. Some even bypass the Satellite all together and connect with a fair to poor connection to the router, that is far away from the device. They kept asking for logs and telling me to turn on Fast Roaming, which I kept telling them it does not exist. 

So I still have the connection issue where devices that connect to the satellite are seldom good, even though they are as close as 5 feet away. Is FAST ROAMING on by default? If so it won't help my issue.

Orbi RBK53 System/RBR50/RBS50/RBS50. + Orbi Voice RBS40V
RBK753 system/RBR750/RBS750/RBS750 + RBK853 System/RBR850/RBS850/RBS850
SXK80 — Orbi Pro AX6000 WiFi 6 Tri-Band WiFi System
There's always a logical answer, if you have all the facts!
Message 14 of 17
blunderdome85
Luminary

Re: SXK80 3.3.0.122 Fast Roaming Option Gone

If you're on 3.3.0.122 (latest firmware) on the Pro then yes, it's on by default and the option to toggle has been removed.

If you're on anything prior to that it's OFF by default and is located in Advanced Setup -> Wireless at the very bottom of the page.

Message 15 of 17
quagmire1
Luminary

Re: SXK80 3.3.0.122 Fast Roaming Option Gone

New firmware V4.0.0.118 is now out for the SXK80 and the Fast Roaming Option is back!

 

Message 16 of 17
blunderdome85
Luminary

Re: SXK80 3.3.0.122 Fast Roaming Option Gone


@quagmire1 wrote:

New firmware V4.0.0.118 is now out for the SXK80 and the Fast Roaming Option is back!

 


Yup!  Very happy to see this!  I was told in a PM that this would be happening but wasn't holding my breath.  Thank you @DavidGo for your help in bringing this back!

Message 17 of 17
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