Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

I tried reaching out to Netgear to make them aware of this issue, however because the 90 day support window expired I am unable to do so. 

I don't want or need phone/chat/mail support to ask questions on how to setup my router or how to turn on/off the router. I want to make Netgear aware there is a serious fault with their product that affects all customers. However with their 90 day policy in place Netgear effectivily blocks any communication. Again this shows that Netgear support is basically a department that has been set-up to monetize basic help questions and not to provide actual product support when it comes to solving bugs. 

Netgear needs to fix the DNS server / firmware.

It also affects other product lines:

• https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-with-Built-in-Cable-Modem/Page-Not-Found-delay/m-p/2062890

This forum is scattered with it. Also FURRYe38, it would be great if you would stop telling people to use workarounds without telling that there is an actual issue with the DNS server / firmware that only Netgear can fix. As you are doing in the thread I linked.

Fun fact, for the Orbi Pro they fixed this problem on 2020-09-08 with V2.5.3.110:

• https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-Pro-WiFi-for-Small-Business/New-Firmware-V2-5-3-110-for-SRR60-SRS60-SRC60-RBS50Y-for-Orbi/m-p/1973098#M2366

As it reads: Fixes a DNS problem that intermittently causes loss of connectivity. This could make you wonder that Netgear simply deemed the Orbi product line to be finished and no active firmware support is given and they moved on to other product lines. Considering no response up until this date has been given.

Users can reach out to forum moderators as well if they feel to let them know there concerns. 

Again. this issue is being reviewed with NG at this time. Not information on feedback or when any fixes will be forth coming as NG will NOT devuldge this information. 

Forum a forum perspective, this is beating a dead horse. Users will need to contact NG support about this and wait for the fix to appear. 

I post how I see fit. Thank you. 

Good Luck. 

DNS_PROBE_FAIL 

I get the dilemma. Basically the Orbi would be a nice wifi system if the DNS server / firmware is working correctly. However in the current state it isn't. DNS handeling is basic functionality and the Orbi is failing at it. Causing DNS errors / timeouts, which in turn causes all sorts of end-user problems: websites not loading, streams stopping/not loading, mobile applications not loading correctly etc. 

I am actually looking in to switching the Orbi for the Asus XT8, as I am doubting whether or not Netgear will actually fix the issue. The reports on connectivity issues with the XT8 are not much, as far as I can tell. However the only downside is that the 2,4 Ghz channel is limited to 2x2. Which is a small step backwards as I think the Orbi has 3x3. This is only a downside though if you have 3x3 wifi-5 clients.

As a short term workaround, have you guys tried overriding the DNS server on your computers and just point to an open DNS server?   In my case, I spun up a piehole server and and repointed my computers to piehole.  Other IOT devices are SOL tho but users don't interface w/ those anyways.

Also, I find it stupid that Netgear doesn't allow you to set the DNS server it hands out in the DHCP settings.  I guess their protecting their paid security service but don't see why they can't allow that for it.  

Once the steam escaped my ears and I calmed down I decided to at least try to help everyone out, even if I return the system.

• I disabled IPv6, switched to IPv4 and recreated the error going to a known-good website.  Error on NewEdge browser is: ERR_NAME_NOT_RESOLVED
• Took screenshot of the DNS error in browser and uploaded it to support
• Pasted all logged events from Administration, Logs into support 
• Backed up my router config, zipped and uploaded to support

So they have literally everything they have ever asked for from me, some things they've receved multiple times. 

Unfortunately I have no hope that this issue will be fixed any time soon. I have provided all the information requested many weeks ago (logs, screen shots etc). Still no resolution. In my opinion, only solution is to set static DNS at each device level. If that solution is not acceptable to you, return/sell your device and move to other device.

---

DNS_PROBE_FAIL wrote:

Once the steam escaped my ears and I calmed down I decided to at least try to help everyone out, even if I return the system.

 

• I disabled IPv6, switched to IPv4 and recreated the error going to a known-good website.  Error on NewEdge browser is: ERR_NAME_NOT_RESOLVED
• Took screenshot of the DNS error in browser and uploaded it to support

---

Curious - The DNS failure is intermittent so difficult to reproduce on demand.  Did you set something up to repeatedly visit a website in a browser until it fails or something like that?  It could be a useful testing tool for Orbi owners who believe they are unaffected.

No, I didn't set something up to repeatedly visit a website or list of sites, I just manually typed in one website after another - trying to use sites that I haven't been to recently so it's doing an actual DNS lookup and not using cache.  (Browsers can cache DNS lookups, chrome does this) Within about 10 sites or so I'll get the error every time.

To capture it for support, I just hit the print screen button on my keyboard then pasted into pain and saved to upload.  You have to act fast to get the screenshot this way because the browser will retry on DNS failures and usually resolves the second time.

Netgear needs to fix their firmware.

I was running almost flawlessly for 2 years, last week the DNS problem started. IPhone and Android phones started loosing connections. Reboot router fixed it  for a while and back within a day or less. Seems to be getting worse each day. Latest Firmware update I think was a few weeks ago. I have 2 Satelites with the system. One of the strangest parts is we have 1 system hardwired to a Satelite and that would hold connection fine while the cell phones or tablets loose connection. LAst night nothing would connect except TV's could stream Netflix and You Tube. Makes no sense.

It sounds like your system had older, working firmware and wasn't updating firmware automatically, then for some reason it updated and the more recent firmware has the issue.  Sometimes a reboot after power drop or something can initiate that.  It's speculation but the fact that it was working and now isn't points to firmware update being a possible cause. 

My system has been on v12 since 1-21-2021

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-AX/New-RBR850-RBS850-Series-Firmware-Version-v3-2-17-12-Released/m-p/2043544/highlight/true#M11411

and it was manually updated to v12 since v12 was not put on NGs update services by NG. It's only for manual download. 

I assume the AX line does NOT have IPv6 enabled by default, so you have enabled it?  If so, it's a shot in the dark, but if you disable it, do the errors persist?  PERHAPS these routers handle IPv6 poorly?

https://www.internetsociety.org/resources/deploy360/2014/dns-considerations-for-ipv6/

I might try that and see. Right now I'm checking a different line, to see if the problem re-appears. My Windows 10Pc got a new 2.5Gb LAN card installed. It was connected however I'm trying the old Intel 1Gb wired connection to see if I see anything first. 

My ISP doesn't have native IPv6 so I use the 6to4 configuration. Here what I have been using for past few months with no DNS problems until today:

I just checked my NTP settings, I dould have sworn that I had DST enabled, however it was not. It's enabled now. I'm going back to my 2.5Gb LAN card connection and monitor again. The 1Gb LAN card has not seen anything thus far since I change a while ago. 

---

FURRYe38 wrote:

I just checked my NTP settings, I dould have sworn that I had DST enabled, however it was not. It's enabled now. I'm going back to my 2.5Gb LAN card connection and monitor again. The 1Gb LAN card has not seen anything thus far since I change a while ago. 

---

I noticed a lot of Reddit users were posting DNS problems with older Orbis (RBR50, etc) with the switch to DST.  I don't recall, but I believe at least a few that I read stated theirs were fixed by enabling DST; however, this problem appears to have been going on even when DST was not in effect, so it may be a cause for SOME people's problem at least.

Ya seems that some are having problems regardless of NTP or DST, espeically here. 

I've since gone back to my 2.5Gb LAN card and have not notice anthing since this morning and re-enabled DST on mine. Will have to watch this over the next day or two and see how it goes. My Orbi 50 series hasn't seen this for me. Also using similar 6to4 DNS configurations. 

Overall, I would recommend all users reach out to NG support and let them know about this for those who have not contacted support yet. 

Just got this email from Netgear today asking me to join their "Netgear Champions" program to become "customer advocates" where I can earn points and giftcards for sharing my Orbi experience!  Maybe we all need to join this program and see how many points we can get by sharing our actual Orbi experience....

---

FURRYe38 wrote:

I just checked my NTP settings, I dould have sworn that I had DST enabled, however it was not. It's enabled now. I'm going back to my 2.5Gb LAN card connection and monitor again. The 1Gb LAN card has not seen anything thus far since I change a while ago. 

---

I just checked mine too - and DST was not enabled, but the time was shown correctly.  I enabled DST and then the time was an hour ahead! So I disabled it again.  Next I chanced the time to Central Time and the time was an hour behind Central Time. So I re-enabled DST and Central Time was correct.  Then I put it back to Eastern Time and, with DST, that was now correct too!  Something flakey is going on with NTP settings.

That said, I have not seen any DNS issues.

Awesome, thanks for letting us know. What time zone are you actualy in

Ya, seems like someting in NTP is hokkie. I know someone posted over on the Orbi AC forum that they mention someone from NG engineering put some sort of bad code in FW. Not sure if this in actual FW throughout or also having to do with some cloud side services as well Seeing that fiddling with DST and NTP seems to resolve most of the users problems seen yesterday. Since I re-enabled mine as well, I have NOT seen any DNS web page errors since. 

---

---

bullm00n wrote:

---

---

I just checked mine too - and DST was not enabled, but the time was shown correctly.  I enabled DST and then the time was an hour ahead! So I disabled it again.  Next I chanced the time to Central Time and the time was an hour behind Central Time. So I re-enabled DST and Central Time was correct.  Then I put it back to Eastern Time and, with DST, that was now correct too!  Something flakey is going on with NTP settings.

 

That said, I have not seen any DNS issues.

---

Just an update from me, Orbi Pros, logged a Ticket, was told to ring up but never did. But what i wanted to ask is if your outside you 90 days i hear they want to charge you.... Surely this is a trading standards thing, they have a duty to sort these in the first 12 months, if you have to pay to talk to diagnose then get an RMA thats so wrong. Anybody done this ? But lets be honest their not broke there just badly developed with shoddy firmware

Anyway i turned them off, went back to Zyxel Multi X and everything is perfectly normal again. Its sad that a company Like netgear release a product so expensive, yet so poor its verging on criminal, i can honestly say never again will i buy this junk. I feel for some of you messing with DST time zone and getting deep inside the router, us users shouldnt need to do this, Netgear should fix their shoddy hardware, surely their guys see this and its an easy fix.... 

 But for the record all DNS issues and Wifi issues i had, have gone now there out of the equation. Dont waste your time faffing about just get something that works.

I gave up on the DNS error issues. It got to the point that I was lucky to have a working DNS for 5 minutes after reboot after fighting it for 3 days. I went out an bought a Linksys Router and set the Orbi to AP Mode.  I put in a Linksys EA7200. Solved my DNS issues nicely. What really impressed me most, I called Linksys twice with questions, I reached Tech support within 10 minutes each time. I had one last question late at night so I launched Chat. Got a person within 5 minutes. I asked in chat about support since netgear is 90 days and done. They said 7/24 support. Hardware warranty is 1 year BUT support continues throughtout that time and beyond. What an improvement over Netgear's policies. Super impressed. 

Netgear actually hasn't changed. With the Orbi AX I actually broke my own promise and gave Netgear another try, as I was impressed by the potential. Over 15 years ago I said to never buy a Netgear product again after going through a similar experiencing with a router (and support). The WGT624 router had very frequent wifi drops. When this happened, the only thing you could do was wait, restart wifi on the client and/or restart the router. Which from usability was way more worse than this DNS issue, at least our wifi connection remains up. The forums were packed with customers having this issue, more so than now with the Orbi AX, and support basically was saying: the router is working fine, it must be some configuration or hardware must be broken so we will do a RMA. Well, switching to the Linksys WRT54G was an instant solution to the problem. Ironically, the current main solution now is to also use a third party router to solve the DNS issue and to stop using the Orbi AX as a router and start using it as an AP.

Netgear should fix the DNS server (dnsmasq) / firmware on the Orbi AX.

Could the DNS problem be related to this, considering it's not affecting all units?

https://www.csoonline.com/article/3603929/flaws-in-widely-used-dnsmasq-software-leave-millions-of-linux-based-devices-exposed.html

I also have an Asus router and noticed their most recent update specifically mentions it fixes the above situation - unlike Netgear that never states what their updates are doing.