Orbi WiFi 7 RBE973
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Intermittent loss of internet connection RBR 350

1topgazza
Aspirant

Intermittent loss of internet connection RBR 350

I have the RBR350 with two satilites. I was getting the odd loss of internet on WiFi message. Rebooting the modem/router, a Sky Broadband Hub, worked. This was happening every couple of weeks. Now it’s happening daily oddly around 11-11.30 pm. Internet access via Ethernet wired connection is fine when this happens. WiFi is working ok as well, just no internet connection.
Tonight I changed the port on the modem/router, just in case, but only rebooted the Orbi 350. Internet access via WiFi recovered.
Now, it’s possibly the modem but this seems to indicate the Orbi. But I’m open to suggestions so any tips welcome please
Message 1 of 18
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Intermittent loss of internet connection RBR 350

"No internet" is So non-specific.  I appears that some times a device reports "no internet" when unable to resolve a URL into an IP address.

 

There are many apps (for computers, laptops, tablets, smartphones, etc.) that will attempt to 'ping' something on the internet.

If this happens tomorrow morning, perhaps a quick experiment might help:

Load up any of those networking apps, and when "No Internet" appears, open the app and

  • Attempt to ping ford.com
  • If that fails, attempt to ping 19.12.97.37

If there is really "NO internet", that should fail as well.  If it succeeds, then something might be wrong with the DNS process.

 

Another thing to do is to open the Orbi web browser interface (http://orbilogin.net ) click on the Advanced Tab, and open the blue box titled Connection Status.  There should be an entry for when the lease expires.  Would be interesting to know if the lease expires between 11:00 and 11:30

Message 2 of 18
1topgazza
Aspirant

Re: Intermittent loss of internet connection RBR 350

Thanks for replying
Tonight no one was actively trying to connect to a website. I was watching Netflix over Ethernet and that had no issues through my Apple TV. The actual TV is connected via WiFi, which I don’t use as the smart element because I have the Apple TV connected to it, flashed up “no internet connection”. I guess the TV polls every so often whilst not using its Android smart feature. Actual internet was up and stable, Netflix kept running and I could also browse the internet from my hard wired Mac. So the issue appears to be the Orbi. I’ll turn the Orbi off and use the router modems WiFi which is currently turned off and I suspect the problem will disappear. How do I fix a potentiometer lease running out issue ?
Message 3 of 18
1topgazza
Aspirant

Re: Intermittent loss of internet connection RBR 350

Also I don’t appear to have a orbilogin.net name and password. I usually manage things from the app
Message 4 of 18
1topgazza
Aspirant

Re: Intermittent loss of internet connection RBR 350

Managed to login in and yes it shows lease expiring around that time. Looks like I get 24 hours each lease 🙁 question is I guess how do I stop that happening ?
Message 5 of 18
1topgazza
Aspirant

Re: Intermittent loss of internet connection RBR 350

I notice my Orbi is in router mode as the modem/ router WiFi is turned off. I assume that is correct but doesn’t explain the 24 hr lease renewals does it ?
Message 6 of 18
1topgazza
Aspirant

Re: Intermittent loss of internet connection RBR 350

Sorry for all the questions. Should I select static ip or dynamic from ISP ?
Message 7 of 18
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Intermittent loss of internet connection RBR 350

(sorry, I've been away from the computer)

 

Using the Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP) has been around since 1993

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_Host_Configuration_Protocol )

 

It is very common for devices to hand out a leave for 86,400 seconds (one 24 hour day).  The protocol expects that device to attempt to renew the lease when 50% remains (12 hours), and to keep trying until it finally expires.  This situation gives an impression that communication with the Sky Hub is not behaving correctly.  Could be the Hub. Could be the RBR350 router.

I'm a bit puzzled, because the typical pattern is for the lease to expire 24 hours after it is issued.  No one is likely to be on hand to reboot the router immediately after a lease expires, so one would expect the expiration time to shift.

 

It would be helpful to know the IP address on the Orbi router WAN interface.  On the Orbi web browser interface, the Advanced Tab, under Internet Port the "IP Address".  If it is a private IP address, then there would be no problem changing the router to a Static IP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_network 

 

Message 8 of 18
1topgazza
Aspirant

Re: Intermittent loss of internet connection RBR 350

No need to apologise my friend I very much appreciate your help. We all need  a life outside our computers 😀

I was a network engineer and then project manager, I retired in 2016, so I am a bit rusty.

Bit more background. I got the Orbi in June, very impressed, then around September I think there was a firmware update and I started to get loss of internet via wifi every couple of weeks. Then when the firmware updated again a short while ago it changed to a daily event. So I blame the firmware which looking at other members who are having the same problem seems to be a bit of a thread. But yes, static IP is the answer. If it will work with my modem/router. Anyway first things first

 

Under Internet Port , IP address is 192.168.0.62

 

Message 9 of 18
1topgazza
Aspirant

Re: Intermittent loss of internet connection RBR 350

Took a leap of faith and change IP to static as 192.168.0.62. Everything is working OK, so far. Connection status has disappeared under Router Status, Show Statistics and no sign of "Lease timeout"

 

Did I do the right thing ? 😁

Message 10 of 18
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent loss of internet connection RBR 350

What Firmware version is currently loaded?
What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too?
Be sure your using a good quality LAN cable between the modem and router. CAT6 is recommended.

 

Your ISP Modem already has a built in router and wifi. This would be a double NAT (two router) condition which isn't recommended. https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT
https://kb.netgear.com/30187/How-to-fix-issues-with-Double-NAT
Couple of options,
1. Configure the modem for transparent bridge or modem only mode. Then use the Orbi router in router mode. You'll need to contact the ISP for help and information in regards to the modem being bridged correctly.
2. If you can't bridge the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, configure the modems DMZ/ExposedHost or IP Pass-Through for the IP address the Orbi router gets from the modem. Then you can use the Orbi router in Router mode.
3. Or disable all wifi radios on the modem and connect the Orbi router to the modem, configure AP mode on the Orbi router. https://kb.netgear.com/31218/How-do-I-configure-my-Orbi-router-to-act-as-an-access-point and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7LOcJ8GdDo&app=desktop

 

Try option #2 first...

Message 11 of 18
1topgazza
Aspirant

Re: Intermittent loss of internet connection RBR 350

Thanks Furry

ISP device is in modem only mode. Orbi is in router mode and works great until the IP lease runs out then it needs a reboot to recover its IP. This problem was not there until the last two firmware upgrades. And now it is every 24 hours.

As I say I had no issues at all until a couple of months ago and the only thing that has changed is the firmware

Very frustrating

Message 12 of 18
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent loss of internet connection RBR 350

What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too?

What kind of IP address is seen on the RBRs internet port secion? ##.##.###.### or a 192.something? 

 

Has a power off for 1 minute then back ON with the ISP modem and router been performed since last update?
Be sure to restart your network in this sequence:
Turn off and unplug modem.
Turn off router and computers.
Plug in and turn on modem. Wait 2 minutes for it to connect.
Turn on the router and wait 2 minutes for it to connect.
Turn on computers and rest of network.

 

Has a factory reset and setup from scratch been performed since last FW update? A complete pull of the power adapters for a period of time after the factory reset then walk thru the setup wizard and setup from scratch.

 

Message 13 of 18
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Intermittent loss of internet connection RBR 350


@1topgazza wrote:

Under Internet Port , IP address is 192.168.0.62


As @FURRYe38 remarked, when the Internet Port is a private IP address, that is an indication that the ISP device is also a router (not "just a modem").  Which means....

 

@1topgazza wrote:

ISP device is in modem only mode.

 

This is not correct.  If the ISP device was in modem only mode, the public IP address would appear on the Orbi router.

 

Being connected to a router creates that dreaded "Double NAT" situation which can interfere with specific internet applications.  When this happens, the user is acutely aware that a specific thing they want to do won't work and the solution is to do one of the things suggested.

 

It is hard to understand how a protocol that has been essential to computer networking since 1993 could be failing.  If setting the Orbi router to a Static IP "fixes the problem" (which you should know in a couple of days), then you have some choices:

  • Leave things as they are (Static IP) and stop fussing with the Orbi.
  • When new firmware comes out, change back to regular DHCP and see if things have improved.
  • Take steps to remove the Double NAT and see what happens next.
  • Try to get either Netgear or the ISP to admit that their device is faulty.  For example, I would tap the Ethernet connection between ISP router and Orbi router and use Wireshark to capture all the dhcp packets to see which of them is not acting correctly.

If the problem remains even with the Static IP, then the problem is "something else".

Message 14 of 18
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent loss of internet connection RBR 350

Why I asked about the model# of the modem/ONT and to confirm the format of the IP address seen on the RBRs internet port. 

Message 15 of 18
1topgazza
Aspirant

Re: Intermittent loss of internet connection RBR 350

Thanks guys. I had turned the WIFi off on the modem/router which is an ISP supplied one. I'm in the UK and it's a Sky Broadband Hub. I have the options to turn off the WIFi AP, and broadcast SSID which disables the Wifi. With the Orbi set as router. Not forgetting the Orbi was working fine until the last two firmware upgrades

 

I'll get back to this tomorrow but again I really appreciate your help

Message 16 of 18
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent loss of internet connection RBR 350

Turning off the WiFi radios doesn't put the modem/ONT into bridge mode or set modem only mode on this unit. Just turns OFF the wifi radios, still leaving the router portion running and enabled. Why it's important know what the RBR is getting from the ISP modem. If the modems router is still running, this maybe causing your problems. Try the option#2 to see if it helps any. 

 

I would out of this modem has a actual bridge mode that is supported. If not, then you'll need to use the DMZ on the modem or set the Orbi system to AP mode. Something else to try to see if the Orbi system sees this loss of internet while in AP mode. 

Message 17 of 18
1topgazza
Aspirant

Re: Intermittent loss of internet connection RBR 350

Thought I would update, especially given the great help I've received

 

Firstly apologies to anyone reading this who is in the UK as you'll know all of this

 

Some background in case you don't already know this. I'm in the UK and the broadband/phone supply is very different. Original ALL phone services were supplied by British Telecom, BT. In the 80s they were privatised and had two divisions Openreach for infrastructure and BT for everything else. They were awful as basically a state run then private company monopoly and customer service was poor.

However once competition kicked in it became more interesting. But today most backhaul infrastructure is still run by Openreach but they now have to open their exchanges to everyone to install their own equipment. Also most wire or fibre to cabinet or premises is still owned and maintained by Openreach.

 

Apart from a couple of fibre (cable) to premises companies, BT, Virgin Media and Trooly and maybe a couple of small ones, most homes have either copper wire to carry phone and broadband or fibre to a local street cabinet and then a short run of copper to your home. The latter limits speeds to typically 70Mbs but varies. Most ISPs use PPPoE as a DHCP authentication method. But one, just one, the one I use  Sky use MER (Option 61). Oddly in Ireland Sky use PPPoE, go figure. So unless the modem/router has Sky MER as a  choice in the ISP menu in setup it won't work. As it can't communicate with the ISPs server. Some do such as the TP Link VR range. Crazy as also ISPs in the UK don't allow their supplied modem/router to be set in bridge mode. Unless you buy your own modem/router of course but again you have the MER authentication issue if you are with Sky who are one of the biggest broadband suppliers in the UK.

 

I didn't realise that a mesh system needs this ability as well to act as the router but now I understand that they do. This I believe is my problem with the Orbi. It can't re authenticate the IP with Sky so will drop until rebooted and a new 24 hour IP lease is issued. Repeat ad nauseam.

 

I could set the Orbi router to AP mode and that would work without much loss of important features. Even if I chose a TP Link modem/router which do have the MER option I would still have the same issue although it could then be set in bridge mode unlike the Sky device. Not sure even then if that would solve my issue though...does anyone know ?

So at the moment I am stuffed without a lot of messing around so have sent the Orbi back to Amazon. I am gutted though as when it worked it was brilliant. I can't explain why the drop out issue got worse after the firmware updates. But it certainly did as for the first couple of months I didn't have an issue.

 

So long post but thank you for your patience and help. I will switch supplier in the new year that uses the more common PPPoE DHCP system Then I'll be back to Orbi

 

 

Message 18 of 18
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