Re: New - RBR750 / RBS750 Firmware Version 4.6.5.14 Released

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-11-18

AH HA. There it IS...LOL

Don't feel bad. See some older historcal Orbi posts regarding those darn USB C dock devices causing problems before

@d700 wrote:

Ok, made some headway, this appears to absolve Netgear completely. I'm up and running on the D-Link DSG108 switch.

Symptoms:

When my wife left this morning, I lost the Ethernet connection I'd established after a reboot.

As soon as I heard the garage door, it went down. This was 3rd time it happened when she left for work.

She's always plugged in while at home and just before she walks out, she unplugs her USB-C cable from her new dock.

This time I realized what was happening, walked down and unplugged her dock from Ethernet and bam, switch and my Mac connected to it went back online immediately.

Probable root cause:

My wife's employer provisioned an Anker 13-in-1 USB C Dock for her to use at home connected to the Ethernet.

Apparently that dock, when it goes to sleep, takes out the LAN, when connected to Big Sur Mac; I kid you not. Had no idea 1 device could have that impact.

Worse, its tied to the Realtek TL8153 chipset, which apparently is widely used in docks of various brands..something, something...problem with driver.

and yep, you guessed it, if you search, many sad, sad threads of heartache about people hardwired to ethernet, using various dock brands using that chipset are wiping out all connected devices on their network.

A workaround appears to be to use an Ethernet Adapter plugged into USB, rather than the ethernet on the dock, for some reason that works.

So far, since I took that dock off the network, its been 100%. I'll let it go for a few days and update here if something changes, will definitely post back if I'm able to run for a week uninterrupted.

So, advice: If you're having problems and you have a dock somewhere/anywhere in the food chain, unplug that sucker first. Though what I found has to do with Big Sur, I couldn't find specifics if it had been fixed by Monterey. Thanks @FURRYe38 your suggested about unplugging each run/device started the train of thought around all that.

Lord, I will need drinks and therapy over this...really hope this is it.

For reference:
Anker 13-in-1 Ethernet LAN Wipeout Troubles

Reddit Thread on Multiple Docks with Same Issue

.

I'll share a round of drinks any time man.

I think you'll be good to go...keep us posted.

d700 · ‎2021-11-18

@FURRYe38 wrote:
AH HA. There it IS...LOL

Don't feel bad. See some older historcal Orbi posts regarding those darn USB C dock devices causing problems before
I'll share a round of drinks any time man.

I think you'll be good to go...keep us posted.

Do you have links to those older threads on docks?

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-11-18

I don't. You could maybe search on USB-C or USB-C dock here in this forum or in the Orbi AC forum:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/bd-p/Orbi

Been a while since I saw someone post about having that issue. I know I did see some posts here and there regarding those devices causing problems.

@d700 wrote:

@FURRYe38 wrote:

AH HA. There it IS...LOL

Don't feel bad. See some older historcal Orbi posts regarding those darn USB C dock devices causing problems before

I'll share a round of drinks any time man.

I think you'll be good to go...keep us posted.

Do you have links to those older threads on docks?

EvilHomer80 · ‎2021-11-18

@ahswp wrote:
Like many of you, I'm looking for an alternative/replacement. Its beyond crazy that Netgear has not fixed this yet.
I'm lucky because I bought the 3 pack from Costco so I can return it at anytime. The problem is that there is not a similarly priced alternative. Due to my setup, I need a 3 pack.

I've looked at Eero, Alien, etc. From what I've read the performance isn't as good or the price is a lot higher for a 3 pack. Of course, those products don't constantly disconnect.

I rolled back my firmware and am blocking the updates by using openDNS so I haven't had the problems others have had.

Open to suggestions.

I don't have any real suggestions but I'm in the same boat. I can't run any of the 4x firmware versions without the satellites disconnecting but I'm now on the last 3x firmware and its ok.

I say ok, it has a bit of a problem on that firmware switching between satellites and the router. If I move to the point it will switch it is disconnecting however its not a huge problem, only really affecting the Nintendo Switch when I get told to move rooms. Still I'd rather handover was smoother.

My thoughts so far have been:

Asus ZenWifi XT8 - This seems like a better option for me with more customisation, but a quick glance through reviews suggests it requires regular reboots to stay stable. So much so that Asus implemented a config option to schedule a reboot while you are sleeping. This to me is only slightly better than what Netgear are doing.

Ubiquiti Amplifi Alien - I really like the look of this and having recently put a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter in with great success I thought this would be the thing. It doesn't seem to have a dedicated backhaul however and reviews suggest the Amplifi is more consumer quality. That doesn't necessarily matter to me except the EdgeRouter is so good, I don't think this will live up to it.

Obviously there are the Eeros and Nest wifi options, but I'm not a fan of google/amazon products.

Despite packing my Orbi up to send it back, in the end I've kept it. On 3.x its been stable enough to leave running. I don't feel like I'm getting the full speed (Orbi RBR50/RBS50 set up gave better speeds further away) and theres the quirk that things seem to disconnect when roaming from router to satellite everyone is connected and happy.

With all that said, my next wifi access points won't be Netgear. I might be "silly" because all these devices have their quirks, but I fundamentally disagree with spending near £600 for something that my free Sky router (which also creates a mesh) could do better. I also believe Netgear could have saved a lot of pain for a lot of people by making it easier to rollback firmware updates and allow customers to choose whether to install or not. The fact they've pushed such crippling updates and take so long to fix them, is not a company I want to support with my money

tak1313 · ‎2021-11-18

@ahswp wrote:
Like many of you, I'm looking for an alternative/replacement. Its beyond crazy that Netgear has not fixed this yet.
I'm lucky because I bought the 3 pack from Costco so I can return it at anytime. The problem is that there is not a similarly priced alternative. Due to my setup, I need a 3 pack.

I've looked at Eero, Alien, etc. From what I've read the performance isn't as good or the price is a lot higher for a 3 pack. Of course, those products don't constantly disconnect.

I rolled back my firmware and am blocking the updates by using openDNS so I haven't had the problems others have had.

Open to suggestions.

If you're looking at cost, TO ME an effective route is to get a GOOD router such as a recent Asus router (even used), load Merlin's firmware, put the Orbi into AP using the Asus to block Orbi's updates, and be done with it.

Merlin takes the EXISTING Asus firmware and tweaks it to make it more usable, stable, and bulletproof. It's up to you if/when you want to update as needed. Since it's based on the factory firmware, all the UI/interface/screens look and work pretty much the same and all the features are intact (including free parental controls, firewall, and DNS security). Whenever Asus releases a new firmware, they go to work tweaking and improving it. Just get a more recent router (I use my old RT-AC68U) so it won't fall out of Merlin development anytime soon.

https://www.asuswrt-merlin.net/

https://www.snbforums.com/forums/asuswrt-merlin.42/

titaniumrx8 · ‎2021-11-19

@tak1313

Thanks for the Merlin info. I would consider doing that except the Merlin mods don't apply to the Asus mesh routers. If I wanted to complicate my network with another router upstream of the Orbi, I could have done that with stuff I have in my boneyard. I have space and power limitations and know that I'll find a mesh that works and meets my requirements. If not, I'll stick with my 5+ year old Netgear R7900 which is stable and performing well.. The Orbi was supposed to improve things but really just created work for me.

Toughguy5 · ‎2021-11-21

i just spent the last 2 1/2 f**king hours trying to get the Orbi back up and running. at 6:30pm tonight the intenet just dropped off, first thing i did was to look at the comcast modem lights and Orbi lights. comcast was on a white light, which means all is good. i contacted comcast to double check my service and i was told all is good. which i belive since i have no trouble with comcast internet. the orbi is the PROBLEM. i rebooted the comcast and the Orbi, the comcast came online and the Orbi dicked around..... the orbi and the satilights where showing the magenta lights and i rebooted them again, and waited... magenta, to blue and then no lights. that should mean all is on line..... NO, it means Orbi looks like its online but the devices in my home were trying to connect to the satilights and were getting dropped, i watched this happen and it has pissed me off to no return. i then logged into the Orbi router and watch the devices drop off again... 5 times i rebooted and nothing happened, the last time i rebooted i could not log into the Orbi router, i ran the windows diagnostics and it fixed the IP configuration and that fixed the Orbi then all my devices started to come online.....i bought these at costco.......i still have time to return them, Netgear has spent a lot of time on their new gear and not enough time on the present gear...this problem has happend before and will happen a again until its fixed or i get rid of it. any better gear out there ?

titaniumrx8 · ‎2021-11-22

"i bought these at costco.......i still have time to return them, Netgear has spent a lot of time on their new gear and not enough time on the present gear...this problem has happend before and will happen a again until its fixed or i get rid of it. any better gear out there ? "

@Toughguy5
On paper the Orbi is probably the " best spec" mesh system. In reality, it lived up to that best-in-class status for almost 3 months (while it was on 3.x rev firmware). As soon as the ref 4.x firmware got pushed, the problems started. Mine went from rock solid backhaul, strong WiFi everywhere and great performance to requiring hours of researching, tinkering and support calls to get everything working again. I wasn't willing to go to the extremes others have gone to to bandaid the Orbi and returned mine to Costco.

To answer your question as to anything better... I haven't found anything yet that might meet my requirements but I'm in no hurry. My old Nighthawk and extender are working well enough. Since my ISP can't give me more than 100mbs, getting scorching speeds isn't a big deal. Even with just 100mbs,I can simultaneously stream three HD TV feeds and one 4k feed plus other computer and IoT activity.

Asus provides 2 years of support and Linksys provides 3 years of free support. My new criteria makes length of support more important than "best paper specs". Good luck.

d700 · ‎2021-11-22

Ok, to clear the record, apologies to Netgear. Netgear unfairly took criticism from me in these forums. They responded to my email inquiry, opened a case and was prepared to do exhaustive dive with engineering to resolved. However it turns out the problem was not with the Orbi or the switches I've tried, problem was with a new Macbook dock.

I've been up for a solid week, no interruptions since removing the USB - C dock w/ethernet connection. I substituted an Ethernet to USB-A adapter plugged into the same dock's USB-A port and have had no interruptions or reboots to my Orbi RBK753 /D-Link Switch System since. I am amazed that one stray device (the dock's ethernet) could actively wipe out a switch like that...but now I know.

Router hardwired to 2 satellites and 1 D-Link DGS108 switch, everything smooth, super fast and great wifi Coverage.

Here's my ethernet connectivity past week every time I've checked, I don't think it can get much better in my area:

The only suggestion I made to Netgear at end of it, was to put more messages in the standard log so mere mortals could at least get a clue what might be causing problems when networking isn't stable. In my case, if the log had shown "disabling DHCP to Swtich due to xyz" would have saved me dozens of hours of troubleshooting. Netgear could probably save some customers by more verbose logging and perhaps a searchable index of "known trouble issues/components"

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-11-22

You should try your NG GS308 switch back in the mixed. I believe it will work.

@d700 wrote:

Router hardwired to 2 satellites and 1 D-Link DGS108 switch, everything smooth, super fast and great wifi Coverage.

ahswp · ‎2021-11-23

There is certainly a "get what you pay for" aspect. Whats so frustrating is that I was VERY happy with my Obris until they rolled out the new firmware. It was working great. Whats more upsetting is that they don't let you roll it back without bending over backwards.
I was able to do it, but it shouldn't be such a pain.

That being said, Costco seems to be willing to accept returns beyond the 90 day period, so I plan on returning mine when I can get a suitable replacement.

jamacphoto · ‎2021-11-23

Yea I am in agreement with you but sadly for my ranch house there is no better one. For One of my satellites I have my gaming PC wired to it and get speeds of over 800 and for wifi gets speeds now like I get before.

They totally dropped tu e ball. Instead of rolling back they could’ve released a brand new firmware, New number, but was the last stable firm where we all had and loved. Atlee we can’t go inside of their heads and know what they’re thinking and I just keep saying why what what the hell are you doing.

I am a senior computer programmer and the number one rule is either fix and go forward or fallback and revert. And many times i’ve had to pull out the newest release and reload the most recent one that works.

They could do the same

I am lucky as have no issue anymore after turning of AX on 2.4. I am so sadden by so many still having issue.

I am just dumbfounded at their response. So many of us can re-create the issue so there’s no possible reason why they cannot re-create the issue diagnostic and solve it.

I wish good luck to all

converge2 · ‎2021-11-24

Like many others here I started to get issues with dropouts with recent 4.* firmware updates.

Been super stable for at few days so I thought I write down what I did.

Dropouts were basically reconnects from satellite to main Orbi. I'm in AP mode behind a pfsense box (Netgate 3100).

Tried giving everything that's running 24/7 a static IP and permanent ARP table entry. Thought it fixed it, but drops came back.

Ethernet connecting as much as possible. Still drops (WiFi devices only, Ethernet rock stable).

Factory reset + manual reconfigure. Again, good for a day, but then came back.

Satellite is only about 25-30ft from base, so I thought devices might get confused (although they never have been in the past). Set the transmission power to 25% for 2.4 and 50% for 5Ghz. Coverage still good (should have been a nicer neighbor and done earlier) but still drops.

Removed AX for 2.4. Still dropping.

Removed multi media setting for 2.4 and set the channel from auto to 1 (1 is what my Mac WiFi diagnostics recommended). Rebooting everything in the network. Stable!

Jinxing it by posting here. TBD.

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-11-24

"Removed multi media setting for 2.4 and set the channel from auto to 1 (1 is what my Mac WiFi diagnostics recommended). Rebooting everything in the network. Stable!" <Whats this multi media setting for 2.4?

What happens if you enabled AX mode while leaving the rest alone?

@converge2 wrote:

Like many others here I started to get issues with dropouts with recent 4.* firmware updates.

Been super stable for at few days so I thought I write down what I did.

Dropouts were basically reconnects from satellite to main Orbi. I'm in AP mode behind a pfsense box (Netgate 3100).

Tried giving everything that's running 24/7 a static IP and permanent ARP table entry. Thought it fixed it, but drops came back.

Ethernet connecting as much as possible. Still drops (WiFi devices only, Ethernet rock stable).

Factory reset + manual reconfigure. Again, good for a day, but then came back.

Satellite is only about 25-30ft from base, so I thought devices might get confused (although they never have been in the past). Set the transmission power to 25% for 2.4 and 50% for 5Ghz. Coverage still good (should have been a nicer neighbor and done earlier) but still drops.

Removed AX for 2.4. Still dropping.

Removed multi media setting for 2.4 and set the channel from auto to 1 (1 is what my Mac WiFi diagnostics recommended). Rebooting everything in the network. Stable!

Jinxing it by posting here. TBD.

converge2 · ‎2021-11-24

Turned AX back on, will report in a week or so how stable it was.

Forgot to mention that setting the CTS/RTS threshold to the max was also an unsuccessful attempt on its own, but kept it at that because it didn't make it worse and I'm never far away from satellite or base.

converge2 · ‎2021-11-24

That was fast, drops back with AX on. With multimedia I mean this below. Looks like 20/40 is also turned off for me. Not sure when I played with that one.

Enable 20/40 MHz Coexistence

Enable WMM (Wi-Fi multimedia) settings (2.4GHz b/g/n/ax)

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-11-24

OK so disabling AX mode seems to work better then. Others have already mentioned this along with setting CTS to 2347.

I have my RBR750 set for 40Mhz only on Coexistance, manual channels 11 and 48. AX mode enabled on both radios, CTS set to 64, Power output set to 25% and WMM enabled.

SW_ · ‎2021-11-26

@r-lerman,

Good write-up!

I also had DNS and disconnect issues when Orbi was setup as Router Mode. I never look back after switching Orbi to AP Mode. I recently replaced my RBK53 setup with RBK753s to get better WiFi coverage and performance. It's not worth the time and effort to keep fighting a losing battle to keep Orbi in router mode. I bought Orbi for its WiFi performance and that's exactly what I get with AP mode. My RBK753s setup has been running well the latest firmware version, v4.6.5.14. YMMV.

Dazza762 · ‎2021-11-27

Finally bit the bullet and updated to V4.6.5.14. Did it through the admin website. The RBR is now on V4.6.5.14 but both RBS are still on V4.6.3.16. Checked for updates again and it's saying all three devices are up to date.

What gives?

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-11-27

Did you update the RBR only thru the RBRs web page or did you select Update All? If you selected Update All, the RBS should have been updated as well. You'll need to manually update the RBS.

@Dazza762 wrote:

Finally bit the bullet and updated to V4.6.5.14. Did it through the admin website. The RBR is now on V4.6.5.14 but both RBS are still on V4.6.3.16. Checked for updates again and it's saying all three devices are up to date.

What gives?

Dazza762 · ‎2021-11-27

@FURRYe38 wrote:
Did you update the RBR only thru the RBRs web page or did you select Update All? If you selected Update All, the RBS should have been updated as well. You'll need to manually update the RBS.
@Dazza762 wrote:
Finally bit the bullet and updated to V4.6.5.14. Did it through the admin website. The RBR is now on V4.6.5.14 but both RBS are still on V4.6.3.16. Checked for updates again and it's saying all three devices are up to date.
What gives?

Yes, and when I did, both the router and the satalites were on V4.6.3.16 but it was only showing V4.6.5.14 as an availble update for the router. It stated (as it still does) that there were no updates available for the satalites. I clicked the "update all" button but only the router got updated.

How do I now get the satalites on the same version as the router? I'm on a Mac if that makes any diffrence.

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-11-27

Download the FW file for the RBS using the link at the head of this post thread. You use use any web browser and log into the RBS web page and send the FW file to the RBS after the zip file is unpacked.

@Dazza762 wrote:

@FURRYe38 wrote:

Did you update the RBR only thru the RBRs web page or did you select Update All? If you selected Update All, the RBS should have been updated as well. You'll need to manually update the RBS.

@Dazza762 wrote:

Finally bit the bullet and updated to V4.6.5.14. Did it through the admin website. The RBR is now on V4.6.5.14 but both RBS are still on V4.6.3.16. Checked for updates again and it's saying all three devices are up to date.

What gives?

Yes, and when I did, both the router and the satalites were on V4.6.3.16 but it was only showing V4.6.5.14 as an availble update for the router. It stated (as it still does) that there were no updates available for the satalites. I clicked the "update all" button but only the router got updated.

How do I now get the satalites on the same version as the router? I'm on a Mac if that makes any diffrence.

Dazza762 · ‎2021-11-27

Thanks. You say in the opening post though that the RBS need to be updated before the RBR. The RBR is already updated so will this cause issues?

@FURRYe38 wrote:
Download the FW file for the RBS using the link at the head of this post thread. You use use any web browser and log into the RBS web page and send the FW file to the RBS after the zip file is unpacked.
@Dazza762 wrote:
@FURRYe38 wrote:
Did you update the RBR only thru the RBRs web page or did you select Update All? If you selected Update All, the RBS should have been updated as well. You'll need to manually update the RBS.
@Dazza762 wrote:
Finally bit the bullet and updated to V4.6.5.14. Did it through the admin website. The RBR is now on V4.6.5.14 but both RBS are still on V4.6.3.16. Checked for updates again and it's saying all three devices are up to date.
What gives?

Yes, and when I did, both the router and the satalites were on V4.6.3.16 but it was only showing V4.6.5.14 as an availble update for the router. It stated (as it still does) that there were no updates available for the satalites. I clicked the "update all" button but only the router got updated.
How do I now get the satalites on the same version as the router? I'm on a Mac if that makes any diffrence.

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-11-27

@Dazza762 wrote:

Thanks. You say in the opening post though that the RBS need to be updated before the RBR. The RBR is already updated so will this cause issues? Yes.

@

How do I now get the satalites on the same version as the router? I'm on a Mac if that makes any diffrence.

https://kb.netgear.com/000037217/How-do-I-check-and-manually-upgrade-the-firmware-on-my-Orbi-satelli...

Dazza762 · ‎2021-11-27

@FURRYe38 wrote:
@Dazza762 wrote:
Thanks. You say in the opening post though that the RBS need to be updated before the RBR. The RBR is already updated so will this cause issues? Yes.
@
How do I now get the satalites on the same version as the router? I'm on a Mac if that makes any diffrence.
https://kb.netgear.com/000037217/How-do-I-check-and-manually-upgrade-the-firmware-on-my-Orbi-satelli...

Yes, I know how to do the update but you're saying "yes", the fact that the router is already on this FM will cause issues if I update the RBS to the same FM?? So how do I do this without causing issues? I'm confused.