Re: New - RBR850 / RBS850 Firmware Version 4.6.8.5 Released

Timtech · ‎2022-06-25

Mine doesn’t have the C wire. I know there is an add on you can buy but it’s been running great for years in the rbk53

CrimpOn · ‎2022-06-25

Wow. Thanks for the information. When there is no electrical power, how long do the batteries typically last? (and, how long to recharge them?)

This sounds like another occasion to use a WiFi extender to create a unique 2.4G SSID. With only one access point using that SSID, there is nothing to "ping pong" to. Nest thermostats use so little data that having 5G capability is basically pointless.

I understand the argument, "Why should the customer have to compensate for what seems so clearly to be a firmware issue?" Personally, I would rather spend $30 and have the problem go away than recharge thermostats three times a day. Those C-wire adapters are $25 each, so one EX3700 is half the cost for three thermostats. (But the C-wire adapters are more of a 'permanent solution'.)

FURRYe38 · ‎2022-06-25

I have a 2nd gen NEST thats still on it's original battery that was bought back in 2015.

Seems that 3rd gen NEST are the onlys only effected.

If the Orbi AX system is setup well, distances and such, I've seen my 3rd gen NEST last months and months. I saw probably again recently on this version of FW and reducing the power and taking out 1 RBS solved it. Too much signals seems to trigger the ping pong effect on 3rd gen NESTs. Eventually i'm going to connect the C wired and won't have to worry about that anymore.

CrimpOn · ‎2022-06-25

I imagine your system is like mine, and has the C wire to provide power. My original Nest thermostat still has the original battery in it as well.

Timtech · ‎2022-06-25

It is solid on the guest ssid which makes me wonder about the ping pong.

I was thinking it was the family policies since I don’t think they apply on guest.

both my nests are 3 gen with no c wire

CrimpOn · ‎2022-06-25

@Timtech wrote:

It is solid on the guest ssid which makes me wonder about the ping pong.

I was thinking it was the family policies since I don’t think they apply on guest.

Both primary and guest broadcast both 2.4G and 5G SSID's on the router and every satellite.

It's just idle curiosity, but I'd like to know how long the batteries last when it's working correctly on the guest WiFi.

Timtech · ‎2022-06-25

on my gen 3 charged at 3.8 I get about six hours

CrimpOn · ‎2022-06-25

@Timtech wrote:

on my gen 3 charged at 3.8 I get about six hours

Surely that's not when it's working OK on the guest network?????

Timtech · ‎2022-06-25

When it’s on the guest network, it doesn’t lose power and disconnect. It just works like normal.

if I move to the primary ssid, the power keeps dropping for 6 hours until it disconnects.

CrimpOn · ‎2022-06-25

Right, but with no power from the AC unit, it can't last forever. Do you have to recharge it

Monthly?
Every so many months?
Yearly?

Timtech · ‎2022-06-25

Im not sure if it stops trying to connect to wifi so aggressively to save battery life.

longest I’ve been with power out has been a couple hours and it was fine.

Lewes1973 · ‎2022-06-25

As far I see, this is one of the issue tried to fix, right:

Fixes issue accessing router GUI/app after firmware update

For me, my iPhone connected to the wireless network of the Orbi router, but still cannot connect to it using the application (Orbi). I got the same error message, as before: "We can't find your Orbi"...

Lewes1973 · ‎2022-06-26

Forget it, works now.

FURRYe38 · ‎2022-06-26

Be sure to try these on Apple devices if you encounter Orbi app issues:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-App/NETGEAR-Mobile-Applications-and-Apple-Devices-FAQ/td-p/222...

@Lewes1973 wrote:

As far I see, this is one of the issue tried to fix, right:

Fixes issue accessing router GUI/app after firmware update

For me, my iPhone connected to the wireless network of the Orbi router, but still cannot connect to it using the application (Orbi). I got the same error message, as before: "We can't find your Orbi"...

Timtech · ‎2022-06-26

Just as a follow up. With this latest firmware, moving from 2.4G auto to channel 1 and 5G to channel 40, and setting the CTS to 64, my upstairs Nest worked the entire night and never went offline on my primary SSID. Which it has never done before on the 583.

Now this morning I have moved my other Nest thermostat and all my Nest Protects to the primary SSID and dropped the 5G transmit power down to 50% (which the Nest Thermostats run on). I will report back later to see if I can truly remove the guest network.

I still have the router and two satellites running since I have cameras outside that need strong wifi. They run on 2.4G.

Thanks for the tips!

FURRYe38 · ‎2022-06-26

Sounds like better results...

Timtech · ‎2022-06-26

#failure. Came home and both were disconnected. I'm going to try setting 5G transmit back to 100% since it worked for over 12 hours before.

I'm charging both Thermostats for ~ 1 hour

The one good thing is they stop communicating via wifi but still run the air conditioner so the temps were still fine when I got home.

FURRYe38 · ‎2022-06-26

Are you using the RBR and just one RBS?

Timtech · ‎2022-06-27

I’m still using two satellites. If the Gen 3 Nests run fine on the guest network with 2 satellites, I don’t see why I would limit my coverage on my primary network. I upgraded to the 853 over the rbk53 because I need to cover more area with my outside cameras.

so far, the thermostats made it through the night on 2 satellites and 100% transmit of 2.4 and 5. I wont call it a success until it makes it over 24 hours. Normally they would drop within 6 hours.

FURRYe38 · ‎2022-06-27

Again, NEST have problems with too much wifi signals.

Lets hope so.

Timothy88 · ‎2022-06-27

Technically speaking its not the power its the common wire and allows for continuous current flow for the thermostat to charge.

Nest thermostats can power steal by rapidly closing the Rc to Y or Rh to W depending on your system configuration. Power stealing sometimes work sometimes doesn't and one day it may just stop working.

If you do not have common wire connected to your Nest chances are you will have issues charging, especially if the system does not run a lot and it can not draw the charging current through the contact closure. It seems that the 'power stealing' doesn't provide enough current to charge it if its idle for long periods. I have had my go rounds with this as well. I had a NEST E thermostat work for about two years without a C wire and one day it decided that it couldn't charge anymore without a common. Until I could connect a common I connected a 5 watt 220 ohm resistor between the C and W1 terminals but I used an extra set of contacts on my heater controller to pull the resistor out of circuit when the heat ran because even with a 5 watt resistor I dint' like how warm it was getting. If you call Nest support the first thing they will recommend is to run a common wire.

This problem with power stealing is not isolated to Nest devices.

Eriksen76 · ‎2022-06-27

I'm running V4.6.8.2_2.1.9 which has been pretty stable for a while now.

App nor searching on the webbased sees any FW updates, is that normal?

(It says no new firmware available)

/Eriksen76

bullm00n · ‎2022-06-27

@Eriksen76 wrote:
I'm running V4.6.8.2_2.1.9 which has been pretty stable for a while now.
App nor searching on the webbased sees any FW updates, is that normal?
(It says no new firmware available)

/Eriksen76

From the Announcement, page 1:

"NOTE: Orbi app or the routers web page may not report seeing new FW updates. NG may not push this to their auto update services immediately and may activate the newer FW update being seen on their auto update services at a later time. User will have the choice to manually update if you want too."

FURRYe38 · ‎2022-06-27

Glad it's working. Thanks for letting us know.

Be sure to save off a back up configuration to file for safe keeping. Saves time if a reset is needed.
https://kb.netgear.com/000062080/How-do-I-back-up-the-configuration-settings-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-System
Enjoy.

@Eriksen76 wrote:

I'm running V4.6.8.2_2.1.9 which has been pretty stable for a while now.

App nor searching on the webbased sees any FW updates, is that normal?

(It says no new firmware available)

/Eriksen76

Timtech · ‎2022-06-27

I have had these two gen 3 Nests running with the same HVAC system for 2 to 3 years. I never had an issue. All I replaced was the Orbi RBK53 with the upgraded Orbi 853 this week and now they are running out of power on the primary network (router and satellites in the exact same spots as the 53 had)

I understand that without the C wire it charges when it has idle power.

I'm almost hoping they run out of power on the Guest network like they do on the primary. That would make sense since it's the same router and satellites with different ssids. (I never ran a guest network on the RBK53) I will keep testing this week and plan to buy the Nest power in the next couple days for a permanent solution. Now it's just engineering curiously on why I'm seeing what I'm seeing. Why I see the power go up on the guest network and draw down on the primary until it disconnects.