Orbi RBKE 963 and Starlink (again?)

[an0malaus]

I followed with interest the (now locked) discussion at https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-WIFI-6-AX-AND-Wi-Fi-6E-AXE/Orbi-6e-cannot-connect-to-Starlink/... and being somewhat desperate to contribute, since I have the same problem, am opening this (again).

From decades old IT experience, when I had to do the odd spot of Cat-5 Ethernet cabling for the equipment I was installing and maintaining in telephone exchanges, I had to learn the T-568-A and T-568-B cabling schemes for terminating RJ45s. In those days, it was quite common for switches, hubs and routers to NOT automatically detect and compensate for straight-through vs crossover cables. Most end devices could be happily connected to hubs, etc. with straight through cables, but configuration testing sometimes needed to be done at a test bench with only a couple of PCs, where a crossover cable would be required (so you get Tx -> Rx at each end).

Back then, I would always reach for a roll of cable, bag of RJ45 connectors and a crimping tool, and just make whatever cable was required at the time.

In the present day, prior to my purchase of the Orbi mesh, I'd just had the Antenna guys come and run some cabling (now Cat-6) and install my Starlink V1 on the roof, which eliminated the vast majority of obstructions it was seeing on the ground (and get rid of the cable hanging out a window, too). I needed a wall plate with pass-through RJ45 sockets, and a Cat-6 patch cable, for tidiness, since the V1 Starlink antenna cable can't be disconnected from the dish. In passing, the installers mentioned that the Starlink cabling was T-568-B, and my past came flooding back.

Seeing the mention of the (presumably straight-through, since it's flat) Cat-6 cable bundled with the Orbi, not working to uplink the Orbi Router to the Starlink WiFi unit's Ethernet port (V1 still has that, so yay for not having to order an adaptor), plus the suggested solution of using a Netgear GS108 switch interposed between the Orbi and Starlink, this is absolutely screaming out to me that it needs a crossover cable!!!

Of course, seeing as how virtually every single network hub, switch and router currently sold has automatic crossover detection and compensation, not to mention their relative cheapness, I can see why that solution would work. It's also going to be easier for most people to just buy one and install it, rather than have to worry about whether they can even find a vendor to sell them a crossover ethernet cable, let alone make one themselves.

Apart from that, I do wonder why Netgear would leave that automatic compensation off their Orbi uplink port? Their other networking gear just does it automagically. Is it such an edge case? I guess it must be, if the tech support weren't either suggesting that straight off the bat, or trying to upsell another piece of Netgear kit to do the crossover.

Anyway, TL;DR. I'm probably just frustrated that the shops are all closed and I don't have my bag of RJ45s and crimping tool any longer, or I'd probably have just fixed this and not bothered to post. Maybe this will help someone else (or get me referred for therapy 😉 )

[FURRYe38 · Accepted solution]

Here is my 960 connected to a simple D-LInk DGS-105 Gb switch connected to a CAX30 modem:

Port 1 is the cable coming from the 960. Port 2 is the cable going to the CAX30 modem. 

Power OFF the RBR and switch then connect the WAN port to your switch. Do not use a cross over cable. Don't connect the StarLink adapter to the switch just yet. Power ON the RBR and switch. The Switch should see the connection and both LEDs should be GREEN for the port the 960 is connected too on the 108 switch. 

[FURRYe38]

Cross over is not needed on any switch or router system that NG has. The systems work with most common modems and ONTs with out the need of any cross over connection. The issue seems to be with Starlink and how they configure there HW seems like as others have already mentioned that using a LAN switch in between the NG router and Startlinks modem or ethernet adapter seems to solve this. This is a Starlink issue. If Starlink isn't implementing auto connection design or following standard networking practice and policies, then that's there choice. 

[an0malaus]

Yes, I accept that it may very well be oversight on the Starlink hardware design side, and the T-568-A/B echoes of my past were just that.

I did try my TP-Link PoE hub, between the two, but that sadly doesn't seem to have sufficient smarts to let the Orbi setup wizard see the Starlink Router, as I'm still getting the "Check the Ethernet Cable" message.

I'll just have to wait until my local consumer electronics retailers open in the morning and try the GS108E option.

I shall report on the expected success (or dire failure, should that happen) when I've been able to try that tomorrow. For now, I'll have to literally sleep on it (or under it, since the unconfigured Orbi makes a nice night light 😉

[FURRYe38]

😉

[CrimpOn]

Thanks for the trip down memory lane.  Indeed, "Those were the days".  I am not totally convinced about two of the conclusions:

1. That the flat cable shipped with the router is straight through because it is flat.  It is straight through if the color codes on both ends match exactly.  Each pair inside the cable is twisted, just as it is inside round cable.  The cables I found on Amazon are terminated T568B, which means that the pairs have to be separated (at both ends) to fit into the correct slot of the connector.
2. That the Orbi WAN port does not auto sense straight vs. crossover cable.  Somewhere in my "box of stuff" is an old crossover cable (orange, of course).  I can dig it out to test the hypothesis, but am not confident that this will address the issue because my Orbi is connected to a Spectrum modem rather than Starlink.

p.s. T568A vs. T568B is not relevant when discussing Ethernet applications.  As long as both ends of each cable segment are terminated to match, they perform identically.  The reason T568A was mandated by the government (long ago) was to support for devices with RJ11 plugs when connected to the RJ45 jack. (fax machines using phone line 2, for example).

[an0malaus]

@CrimpOn the transparent RJ45s do allow confirmation that the flat CAT-6 cable IS straight through and T-568A style. Of course, past the end of the flat cable, there are moulded plastic strain relief ends providing plenty of room for any (absent) crossover to happen. I was just reacting in line with decades-old habits of (now incorrectly) assuming that any flat cable must be cheap and nasty 😷. The CAT.6 printed on the cable should have calmed my fears 😁

[an0malaus]

@FURRYe38 Frustratingly, the newly acquired GS108 switch inserted between the Orbi’s internet port and Starlink V1 AUX port fails to show link LEDs on the Orbi side. If the Orbi cable is moved to the 2.5G port or any of the 1G router ports on the Orbi, then the switch shows link lights.

Is it possible that the Internet port is DOA or otherwise disabled by prior connection directly to the Starlink? The Switch port connected to the Starlink DOES show link LEDs. Both switch ports will blink with activity if I connect a different port on the Orbi.

[FURRYe38 · Accepted solution]

Here is my 960 connected to a simple D-LInk DGS-105 Gb switch connected to a CAX30 modem:

Port 1 is the cable coming from the 960. Port 2 is the cable going to the CAX30 modem. 

Power OFF the RBR and switch then connect the WAN port to your switch. Do not use a cross over cable. Don't connect the StarLink adapter to the switch just yet. Power ON the RBR and switch. The Switch should see the connection and both LEDs should be GREEN for the port the 960 is connected too on the 108 switch. 

[an0malaus]

Thank you!!! This is the secret sauce/herbs and spices/cable-fu I needed. Plus a substantial measure of extra patience before I plugged the Starlink into the switch.

The Safari browser on my iPhone doesn’t allow me to browse screenshots or select photos on this forum, so I’ll have to resort to the thousands of words instead (joking).

The 960 was perfectly happy to directly connect to my broadband modem, without needing the inline switch. So no hardware problem there.

Powering on 960 and switch with WAN connected but nothing else gave link LEDs. Yay! However, I failed to wait sufficient seconds for everything to stabilise before plugging in the Starlink, and the WAN link LEDs blinked off. 960 was in purple mode, so I turned it all off and started again.

Second attempt, and I waited about 5 minutes after power on with WAN + switch link LEDs, purple lights and Orbi setup app showing internet down, before plugging in the Starlink to the switch. Both pairs of link LEDs continued blinking, and eventually the purple haze went away and the app showed internet up!!!

I wonder, now that it has actually made a connection, whether a power outage (I do plan to put these all on one or more of my multiple UPS units) will require the same level of sacrifice and incantation that this exercise in novice friendliness has? 😁😉🤪

[FURRYe38]

Glad you got it working. Be sure to save off a back up configuration to file for safe keeping. Saves time if a reset is needed.
https://kb.netgear.com/000062080/How-do-I-back-up-the-configuration-settings-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-System
Enjoy. 📡