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Re: RBK753 why does reset router needed to reconnect dropped device? (Lennox S30 thermostat)

Serranopr
Tutor

RBK753 why does reset router needed to reconnect dropped device? (Lennox S30 thermostat)

Periodically one of my Lennox S30 thermostats will drop WiFi connection.  When I try to reconnect it is unsuccessful and times out.  However if I go to the Orbi and do a router reset, and then try to reconnect it will connect on the first try.  What's going on?  The signal to the S30 themostat is quite strong and shows an RSSI of -42dbm.  I'm aware the thermostat Wifi hub is located between the primary Orbi router, and the first wired mesh Orbi satellite.  The thermostat when it has lost Wifi will easily see the WiFi to connect to since it's a strong signal, but the router connection attempt times out, like it has been blocked.  I've looked at logs and blocked devices and don't see anything obvious.

 

But...reset the router and it will connect first time.  What's going on?  Suggestions?

Message 1 of 14
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK753 why does reset router needed to reconnect dropped device? (Lennox S30 thermostat)

What do you mean by a router reset. Reset usually means that you factory reset the system and setup from scratch. 

 

What Firmware version is currently loaded?
What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too?

 

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and 📡 satellite(s)? 30 feet or more is recommended in between RBR and RBS📡 to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected.
https://kb.netgear.com/31029/Where-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite 📡

 

What channels are you using? Auto? Try Auto and 48 on 5Ghz. Or try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and 40 to 48 channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

Message 2 of 14
Serranopr
Tutor

Re: RBK753 why does reset router needed to reconnect dropped device? (Lennox S30 thermostat)

What I mean by reset is actually going onto the orbi admin web interface and doing a Router "Reboot". 

 

When the thermostat shows no connection to the WiFi (it got dropped), going to that device and trying to reconnect fails.  The network shows plenty of signal strength (-40dbm or so), however you can try and try again and it will simply timeout, connection failed.   However if I go to the Orbi admin, and do a router reboot, wait for Orbi to completely come back up and then attempt to connect the thermostat it will connect on the first attempt.  It seems like doing the router reboot is flushing something, and then the reconnection attempt is successful.  My setup is a Motorola modem (latest) supporting Comcast ISP and Gig speed, very low latency.  The thermostat hub is in the attic and probably closest to a wired Orbi satellite, but there is some ductwork and it may see the main Orbi router better which is perhaps 25 feet away.  

 

Orbi RB753 with current firmware (no updates available) V4.6.9.11_2.3.5

RegionNorth America
 
2.4 GHz ChannelAuto (5)
 
2.4 GHz Wireless mode:Up to 1147 Mbps
 
5 GHz Channel36 + 40 + 44 + 48(P)
 
5 GHz Wireless mode:Up to 2402 Mbps
Message 3 of 14
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK753 why does reset router needed to reconnect dropped device? (Lennox S30 thermostat)

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and 📡 satellite(s)? 30 feet or more is recommended in between RBR and RBS🛰️ to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected.

Message 4 of 14
Serranopr
Tutor

Re: RBK753 why does reset router needed to reconnect dropped device? (Lennox S30 thermostat)

The home is >4000ft.  

 

RBR router ------> wired> ---  Sat1..........wireless Sat 2

        thermostat

 

Thermostat is between Router & Sat1, and the admin web interface for Orbi shows it is connecting to the thermostat on the main Router, 2.4Ghz.

Message 5 of 14
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK753 why does reset router needed to reconnect dropped device? (Lennox S30 thermostat)

What is the distance between the router and 📡 satellite(s)?

Possible that the thermostat is having a hard time keeping connected due to all the wifi signals coming from the RBR and the two RBS. 

For that size of home, you only need the RBR and one RBS. https://youtu.be/UR0viMLISz4


Try this, Turn OFF 1 RBS. 

Set the Transmit power on the RBR to 50%. Set 40Mhz co-existence. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings

Set manual channel 1 and 40. 

 

Message 6 of 14
Serranopr
Tutor

Re: RBK753 why does reset router needed to reconnect dropped device? (Lennox S30 thermostat)

I'll try that.  Today also I'm having the thermostat hub (it's actual Wifi which is located near the furnace in the attic) moved.  The thermostat S30 that you see is merely a display.  I'd like the hub moved away from the ductwork and will see if that resolves issues.

 

As for the number of Sats, the house is 4200 sq ft which doesn't include a 4 car garage and covered patio.  Their are Wifi devices around the perimeter of the house so you are really trying to cover about 5000 sq feet single story.  The RBR is located on the far right of the house next to the ISP access and modem.  RBS1 gets ethernet cable to a location in the middle of the home which also allows further distribution through switches to all the media devices.  RBS2 is on the left side of the home and serves devices in the guest wing, patio and garage.

 

If I still have issues I can try your suggestion.

 

But I'd like to go back to the original question.  When the device has dropped Wifi connection, I can stand there and repeatedly pound in the password for the network, try to connect, and it will timeout.  No connection (and yet it sees the network at about -40dBm).  However if I go to Orbi and reboot the router and then try to connect....voila...it connects first time.  What did rebooting the router suddenly accomplish such that the device will easily connect first attempt?  

Message 7 of 14
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK753 why does reset router needed to reconnect dropped device? (Lennox S30 thermostat)

What is the distance between the router and 📡 satellite(s)? 

Also if you can draw up a diagram of the floor layout and where the RBR and RBS are place along with where the controllers are at would be good. Explaining doesn't really give us a good idea of the placement and distances. 

 

I have a 5000 sq ft home 3 levels and generally I can run the RBR and just 1 RBS at 100%. If I have two RBS online I reduce the power to 50%. I can get away with 25% if the RBS are ethernet connected. 

 

 

Message 8 of 14
titaniumrx8
Apprentice

Re: RBK753 why does reset router needed to reconnect dropped device? (Lennox S30 thermostat)

@Serranopr 

I have a similar situation with a Bryant (Carrier) Connex thermostat where the thermostat itself houses the wifi. It has a good signal in its location and "sees" the ssid 6 times although it is a 2.4ghz-only device. I only got it connected to the mesh (RBK763) once and that was after rebooting the RBR.  Previously with the older RBK753 there were some adjustments that in combination would allow the Connex to connect. The RBK763 however doesn't have all the same options available so I have added a 2.4ghz extender with a different ssid and the Connex has no issue staying connected.

 

I'd still like to see if I can get it to work without the extender and have a call with Netgear support next week.

Message 9 of 14
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: RBK753 why does reset router needed to reconnect dropped device? (Lennox S30 thermostat)


@titaniumrx8 wrote:

@Serranopr 

 "sees" the ssid 6 times


What this often means is that the device has detected every access point that is broadcasting the SSID.  In my case with one router and three satellites, each of them (4) broadcasts Beacon Frames between 5-10 times per second on:

  • Primary SSID @ 2.4G
  • Primary SSID @ 5G
  • Guest SSID @ 2.4G
  • Guest SSID @ 5G

So, that is four access points broadcasting four Beacon Frames between 5 and 10 times per second.  That comes to between 80 and 160 Beacon Frames every second!

 

Most WiFi devices hide all this from the user and present only unique SSIDs (primary and guest).  Internally, they know which they prefer and will attempt to join if it is selected by the user.  My Samsung tablet actually shows all of them, along with the RSSI level of each access point.

 

If you were lucky enough to have the thermostat located closer to the router than any of the access points, then it is almost trivial to get it connected.  Power off everything except the router, the thermostat will show only one SSID and connect to it.

 

Since this is rarely practical, it might be worth experimenting by deliberately selecting different SSIDs (even though they are identical) until one seems to "work better" than the others.

 

 

Message 10 of 14
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: RBK753 why does reset router needed to reconnect dropped device? (Lennox S30 thermostat)

p.s. That's why the extender gimmick works.  The extender broadcasts only one unique SSID, so there is no confusion over which access point the thermostat is connecting to.

Message 11 of 14
Serranopr
Tutor

Re: RBK753 why does reset router needed to reconnect dropped device? (Lennox S30 thermostat)

@CrimpOn 

@titaniumrx8 

 

I have the RBK853 which is one RBR router and WiFi, and two RBS satellites.  The first satellite is hardwired, and the farthest satellite is wireless backhauled.  

 

Both Lennox S30 thermostats are 2.4Ghz only, and they tend to see in their list of networks to connect multiple Primary and Guest.  The RBR is on the far right of the house in a walk in closet and that is also the location of the Motorola modem that connects to Comcast.  The more difficult to connect Lennox thermostat actually connects to this Primary RBR on 2.4Ghz, but it also sees beacons from RBS1, although not quite as strong.  It's currently connected to RBR with an RSSI of -35dbm.

 

I don't know if it is possible but it would be nice to not have the 2.4Ghz Guest network, and only have a Primary network on 2.4Ghz.  All guests that come to the house would be on modern Apple devices with 5Ghz Wifi.  The only 2.4Ghz devices on my network are all my devices and connect on the Primary network which also coexists on 5Ghz.  I probably still like having both 2.4 and 5Ghz having the same Primary SSID which allows you to go to the extremes of our property where 5ghz might be sketchy and still retain a 2.4Ghz connection.

 

I still don't understand why rebooting the router fixes the issue when the Lennox thermostats loose connection and won't reconnect.  I realize all the IP addresses get reassigned.  Lennox makes a great HVAC, but their thermostats have user comments of being finicky on Wifi, and certainly not as resilient as the prior Google Nest thermostats which could loose power during an outage and reconnect easily.

 

Let me know any hints suggestions, and recommendations you get from your support call with Netgear.  

Message 12 of 14
titaniumrx8
Apprentice

Re: RBK753 why does reset router needed to reconnect dropped device? (Lennox S30 thermostat)

If you were lucky enough to have the thermostat located closer to the router than any of the access points, then it is almost trivial to get it connected. Power off everything except the router, the thermostat will show only one SSID and connect to it.

 

Even This Doesn't Work. The Last Orbi Allowed Changing The CTS/Rts.  That Worked. 

Message 13 of 14
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK753 why does reset router needed to reconnect dropped device? (Lennox S30 thermostat)

What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 

Also if you can draw up a diagram of the floor layout and where the RBR and RBS are place along with where the controllers are at would be good. Explaining doesn't really give us a good idea of the placement and distances. 

 

I have a 5000 sq ft home 3 levels and generally I can run the RBR and just 1 RBS at 100%. If I have two RBS online I reduce the power to 50%. I can get away with 25% if the RBS are ethernet connected. 

@Serranopr 

Message 14 of 14
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