Orbi WiFi 7 RBE973
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RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning

dtay
Luminary

RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning

I'm NOT a happy camper.

 

So this morning, my wife mentioned that the Wi-Fi was having issues early this morning and woke me up.  I noticed that all security cameras were offline and my phone was having issues getting an IP.  Checked my desktop (wired, 1Gbps connection to the Orbi router) and ran a continuous ping to 8.8.8.8 or even to the router (192.168.1.1) and it was dropping packets once every 2-3 pings. This is starting to look bad.  Rebooted the Verizon Fios GPON ONT and all the two RBS nodes several times; same issue.  It seems to be deteriorating further.

 

Logged into the Orbi app and saw there was a firmware update available, so I tried to download it.  It wouldn't even connect online.  Tried swapping DNS servers (switched to CloudFlare and OpenDNS) but that didn't help.  By now, everyone in the household was up and getting ready for work, school, etc. online and the network is literally falling apart.

 

In the end, I had to remove all the Orbi's from the network and redeploy my old ASUS RT-AC68U (AC1900) router back and everything was operational.  Pings were consistent and not a single drop.  WTH happened?!?  

 

I plan to factory reset (via the pin) all the units and then start from scratch the setup after hours (likely when everyone is asleep) when I have the next opportunity.  I was going to try the new firmware (V3.2.16.6_1.44) but saw some posts about problems.  I guess I should hold off for now?

 

Until the meltdown this morning, my setup was:

 

Firmware at V3.2.15.32_1.3.25_Hotfix. 

CTS/RTS at 2367.

All satellites connected via wired backhaul.

 

 

I really want to get to the root cause.

Message 1 of 26
dtay
Luminary

Re: RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning

Support ticket # 43245989 opened with Netgear.

Message 2 of 26
Mindblowerz
Aspirant

Re: RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning

I'd try setting the CTS/RTS values back to 64. When I set mine to 2347, it brings the network down after a while, not immediate. 

Message 3 of 26
dtay
Luminary

Re: RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning


@Mindblowerz wrote:

I'd try setting the CTS/RTS values back to 64. When I set mine to 2347, it brings the network down after a while, not immediate. 


Really!  How long was "after a while?"  I wonder if that's the issue that I had experienced?  But what's weird is that despite multiple reboots, I was still having the issue. 

 

I checked the current setting for my ASUS RT-AC68U and it's at the defaults: 2347 for years.  Don't recall having an issue with my ASUS on that setting (as I never touched it) but I'll try setting the Orbi back to 64 again when I set it up after hours again.

Message 4 of 26
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning

I know with v32 on my Orbi AX I had used 64 for CTS for days and didn't see any issues. Only with use of 2347 would I see some issues with NEST controllers disconnecting. NG is recommending use of default 64 for CTS on Orbi AX. Seems to work best on v32. I see v6 is now posted for manual download. I'll get mine loaded up and check operation with new FW. 

 

Message 5 of 26
Mindblowerz
Aspirant

Re: RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning

Yeah, "a while" sometimes mean a couple of hours, sometimes next day but it will eventually happen. Even tried the safe value of 500/512.. didn't bring down the network but definitely slowed it down.. so I'll back to 64. I've tested it multiple times to confirm... ask my wife lol

 

And yes, most other routers default to 2347 with no issues, not sure why it only happens with Orbi.

Message 6 of 26
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning

Orbi AX and the AX system seem to be one system where CTS 64 seems to be what NG has tuned with in the wifi drivers. Ya most N and AC wifi current and past was always set for 2347. Seems that isn't the case anymore for Orbi AX. 

Message 7 of 26
dtay
Luminary

Re: RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning


@FURRYe38 wrote:

I know with v32 on my Orbi AX I had used 64 for CTS for days and didn't see any issues. Only with use of 2347 would I see some issues with NEST controllers disconnecting. NG is recommending use of default 64 for CTS on Orbi AX. Seems to work best on v32. I see v6 is now posted for manual download. I'll get mine loaded up and check operation with new FW. 

 


Looking forward to hearing about your results with the new firmware.

Message 8 of 26
dtay
Luminary

Re: RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning


@FURRYe38 wrote:

Orbi AX and the AX system seem to be one system where CTS 64 seems to be what NG has tuned with in the wifi drivers. Ya most N and AC wifi current and past was always set for 2347. Seems that isn't the case anymore for Orbi AX. 


I think Netgear needs to make 64 the default setting when they release the next firmware (and document it as such in the changelog or release notes).  This would not only eliminate a lot of support calls, headaches and frustrations and and even customer returns of the Orbi units, all because of something as simple as a configuration setting.

 

I'll give 64 a try again when I factory reset my units and attempt it again.

 

Quick question on the 20/40 MHz coexistence: should I leave it enabled or disabled?  I know the default was enabled but apparently at the expense of performance?

Message 9 of 26
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning

64 has been default for several versions of FW now. 

 

Try 20/40Mhz i've left mine at 20/40Mhz and haven't see any issues in performances. 

 

 

Message 10 of 26
dtay
Luminary

Re: RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning

I've factory reset and got my Orbi AX up and operational.

Updated the router and the satellites to the latest firmware during the initial setup (it was required).

The CTS setting by default was already at 64 so I left it at that.

Keeping my fingers crossed that it doesn't break again!
Message 11 of 26
dtay
Luminary

Re: RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning

OK, looks like I was overly optimistic. 😞

 

Here's the full details. 

Last night after everyone was asleep, I got the main router up and the two satellites factory reset, configured and back online.  I was only able to put one satellite into production (via wired backhaul) and that was good. I wasn't able to bring the second one online as the room was occupied so I had to wait until morning.

Throughout the night, I had continuous pings running to the following:

192.168.1.1 - router

192.168.1.10 - satellite 1 (in production)

8.8.8.8 - google

 

Everything looked good, without a single drop on the pings and the network seemed fine.


This morning, when I plugged the second satellite in (wired backhaul), it came online.  Within a few minutes, I noticed that my pings to the router, both satellites and to google were dropping.  The issues that I had experienced earlier yesterday were occuring again; cameras, etc. were all going offline.  I quickly disconnected the power to the second satellite and the pings resumed back to normal and everything came back online.

 

Here are the symptoms that I'm seeing:

-- In the GUI, under basic, home tab, for the box that says "attached devices", it shows the correct number of satellites: 1.

-- If I click on the attached devices box, it shows 2 satellites?  Shouldn't it only show 1?

-- In the app (Android), it show 2 satellites as being online (the icons have the green LEDs). Shouldn't this only show 1?

 

I plan to reset the satellite that's offline currently but how do I remove it properly from the Orbi network?  I don't see an option to remove or disassociate it from my current network from either the app or the GUI.

.

 

Message 12 of 26
Mikey94025
Hero

Re: RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning


@dtay wrote:

The issues that I had experienced earlier yesterday were occuring again; cameras, etc. were all going offline.  I quickly disconnected the power to the second satellite and the pings resumed back to normal and everything came back online.


This unfortunately sounds similar to the problem I'm having with my RBR850 system: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-AX/RBS850-satellites-lose-internet-and-gateway-connectivity-se....  My symptoms are like yours: Internet and local network connectivity is lost but as soon as one "problemmatic" satellite is powered off, things work again.  I tried a bunch of workarounds (as reported in that thread) but did not find anything that solved the intermittent connectivity issues.

 

I was hopeful that the new V3.2.16.6_1.4.4 firmware would be a fix, but after a couple days of goodness last night things went downhill again.  I've given up trying to experiment and find a workaround so now I've factory reset both my RBR50 and RBR850, then swapped things so my old RBR50 is doing the routing and my RBR850 is hanging off of it in AP mode.  I just want and need a stable network environment and can experiment with a new RBR850 firmware much further down the road when things are much more mature and they've worked out all these mysterious issues.

Message 13 of 26
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning

So you don't see Remove or Disconnect on the RBRs web page under Attached Devices at all? 

 

What happens if you place this one RBS in place with the working RBS? Does it connect there? 

Is the RBS directly connected to the RBR or is there a switch in between the non working RBS and the RBR? 

 

Possible causes of what your seeing maybe a bad, sync, bad cable, bad RBS or bad switch. 

 

I have both of my RBS online and wire connected. Both behind ethernet switches. 

Screen Shot 2020-08-19 at 10.00.14 AM.png


@dtay wrote:

OK, looks like I was overly optimistic. 😞

 

Here's the full details. 

Last night after everyone was asleep, I got the main router up and the two satellites factory reset, configured and back online.  I was only able to put one satellite into production (via wired backhaul) and that was good. I wasn't able to bring the second one online as the room was occupied so I had to wait until morning.

Throughout the night, I had continuous pings running to the following:

192.168.1.1 - router

192.168.1.10 - satellite 1 (in production)

8.8.8.8 - google

 

Everything looked good, without a single drop on the pings and the network seemed fine.


This morning, when I plugged the second satellite in (wired backhaul), it came online.  Within a few minutes, I noticed that my pings to the router, both satellites and to google were dropping.  The issues that I had experienced earlier yesterday were occuring again; cameras, etc. were all going offline.  I quickly disconnected the power to the second satellite and the pings resumed back to normal and everything came back online.

 

Here are the symptoms that I'm seeing:

-- In the GUI, under basic, home tab, for the box that says "attached devices", it shows the correct number of satellites: 1.

-- If I click on the attached devices box, it shows 2 satellites?  Shouldn't it only show 1?

-- In the app (Android), it show 2 satellites as being online (the icons have the green LEDs). Shouldn't this only show 1?

 

I plan to reset the satellite that's offline currently but how do I remove it properly from the Orbi network?  I don't see an option to remove or disassociate it from my current network from either the app or the GUI.

.

 


 

Message 14 of 26
dtay
Luminary

Re: RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning

Both satellites are connected to a switch that's connected back to the Orbi.  The switch is fine; I've connected my laptop to the same port where the Orbi was and my laptop connected fine.

 

See attached screen cap from the GUI.  It shows both satellites even though one is unplugged and turned off. 🙂  Is that normal?

 

Here's another oddity: I factory reset the offending satellite (pin reset 30 seconds until light is amber; while still holding down the pin, unplug power, and plug back power for another 30 seconds before releasing the pin) and when it came up, I was surprised that I could still login to the AP (with the default cred. of admin/password) and it still showed as configured to my Orbi network.  How is that possible when I've already reset it several times?

Message 15 of 26
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning

What is the mfr and model of this switch? 

 

If the RBS was turned off and you gave several minutes for the RBRs web page to update, the RBS should show as disconnected. 

 

So swap RBSs around and see if the one non working RBS works in the others place while the working one is turned off and disconnected. 

 

You only need 15 seconds press of the reset button then release. Be sure you feel the button press in with the small feel of a bump when you press it. 

 

Possible you may have a faulty RBS as well. 

Message 16 of 26
dtay
Luminary

Re: RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning


@FURRYe38 wrote:

What is the mfr and model of this switch? 

 

If the RBS was turned off and you gave several minutes for the RBRs web page to update, the RBS should show as disconnected. 

 

So swap RBSs around and see if the one non working RBS works in the others place while the working one is turned off and disconnected. 

 

You only need 15 seconds press of the reset button then release. Be sure you feel the button press in with the small feel of a bump when you press it. 

 

Possible you may have a faulty RBS as well. 


Switch is a Netgear GS116 16-port gig switch.

 

I'm going to reboot the router tonight to see if it will update the RBR devices web page properly; the offending satellite has been turned off for several hours now yet the page still says it's connected and "good."  LOL!

 

I can can try swapping the RBS aound but don't think that will make a difference since they are both connected to the same switch; just different rooms at the opposite sides of the house (same floor).

Message 17 of 26
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning

Please try swapping the RBS around just to see. 

 

What version or rev is the switch? I see a few different revs for this model switch.

Message 18 of 26
dtay
Luminary

Re: RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning


@FURRYe38 wrote:

Please try swapping the RBS around just to see. 

 

What version or rev is the switch? I see a few different revs for this model switch.


Not sure what rev or version of the switch it is as it is a few years old and is currently mounted on the panel.  I'd have to unpatch the switch, unscrew it from the rack to get to the label and that's not a possible.   It's the GS116NA - https://smile.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Ethernet-Unmanaged-Protection-GS116NA/dp/B00023DRLO/ref=psdc_281414...

 

Update: I was able to reboot the router a few moments ago when everyone in the household was having lunch so I quickly did that.  Sure enough, it now properly shows the RBS that's been turned off as being disconnected and gave me the option to remove it; see screen cap.  It's strange (and unsettling) why the router kept saying the disconnected RBS was still connected earlier.  

 

 

Message 19 of 26
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning

Ok so did you remove the one RBS? 

Possible the RBR was stuck in a bad state and needed a reboot.

 

Reason for asking is that there are several different models and revs for the 116 switch trying to attempt to see which one you have for additional specs on your switch. Just to make sure. 

 

Message 20 of 26
dtay
Luminary

Re: RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning


@Mikey94025 wrote:

@dtay wrote:

The issues that I had experienced earlier yesterday were occuring again; cameras, etc. were all going offline.  I quickly disconnected the power to the second satellite and the pings resumed back to normal and everything came back online.


This unfortunately sounds similar to the problem I'm having with my RBR850 system: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-AX/RBS850-satellites-lose-internet-and-gateway-connectivity-se....  My symptoms are like yours: Internet and local network connectivity is lost but as soon as one "problemmatic" satellite is powered off, things work again.  I tried a bunch of workarounds (as reported in that thread) but did not find anything that solved the intermittent connectivity issues.

 

I was hopeful that the new V3.2.16.6_1.4.4 firmware would be a fix, but after a couple days of goodness last night things went downhill again.  I've given up trying to experiment and find a workaround so now I've factory reset both my RBR50 and RBR850, then swapped things so my old RBR50 is doing the routing and my RBR850 is hanging off of it in AP mode.  I just want and need a stable network environment and can experiment with a new RBR850 firmware much further down the road when things are much more mature and they've worked out all these mysterious issues.


Thanks for the heads up.  This has been a frustrating and weird issue, one that I didn't expect from what is supposed to be a flagship wireless mesh solution.  

Message 21 of 26
dtay
Luminary

Re: RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning


@FURRYe38 wrote:

Ok so did you remove the one RBS? 

Possible the RBR was stuck in a bad state and needed a reboot.

 

Reason for asking is that there are several different models and revs for the 116 switch trying to attempt to see which one you have for additional specs on your switch. Just to make sure. 

 


Yup, I've removed the offending RBS and now the RBR shows just one RBS connected. 🙂

 

I will try and connect the RBS again sometime after hours when no one is on the network and see if the symptoms happens again.  If it does, then I'll push NG for an RMA for a bad RBS.

Message 22 of 26
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning

OK, Keep us posted. 

I would factory rest the RBS 15 second press then release. Then re-add it to the RBR using the sync button on the RBS and then press the sync button on the RBR or use the RBRs web page add satellite feature to add it. I would do this while in same room with the RBS and RBS. Add it wirelessly first, let it sync and give about 5 minutes for the RBS and RBR to settle in. check the status on the RBRs web page. Wireless 5G should appear. Check the RBS status page as well, make sure the SSID and Security are enabled. Once it's settled in, then connect the ethernet cable to the RBS. Then again check the RBRs status. Give a few minutes for the RBR to report the change in connection. Check the status page on the RBS. SSID and security should be enabled and both 2.4 and 5Ghz single icons on the left side should be grayed out. 

Message 23 of 26
dtay
Luminary

Re: RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning


@FURRYe38 wrote:

OK, Keep us posted. 

I would factory rest the RBS 15 second press then release. Then re-add it to the RBR using the sync button on the RBS and then press the sync button on the RBR or use the RBRs web page add satellite feature to add it. I would do this while in same room with the RBS and RBS. Add it wirelessly first, let it sync and give about 5 minutes for the RBS and RBR to settle in. check the status on the RBRs web page. Wireless 5G should appear. Check the RBS status page as well, make sure the SSID and Security are enabled. Once it's settled in, then connect the ethernet cable to the RBS. Then again check the RBRs status. Give a few minutes for the RBR to report the change in connection. Check the status page on the RBS. SSID and security should be enabled and both 2.4 and 5Ghz single icons on the left side should be grayed out. 


Update on my progress last night adding the RBS back:

 

I followed the exact steps above (resetting the RBS again, for the thousand time) and the RBS connected and joined the network wirelessly and after about 10 minutes or so (on wireless), I moved it to the bedroom where it is intended to be, and connected it back (wired).  I also set the DHCP reservation for the RBS back to what I want it to be (192.168.10) since my DHCP pool begins at .100 and the RBS was at .134.  Despite setting the DHCP reservation and rebooting all the units, it still kept the DHCP address (.134) and the reservation didn't kick in until about 10 am this morning, so that's about 12 hours later.  I'm disappointed that the firmware doesn't allow you to change the DHCP lease time.  C'mon.

 

Continuous pings to the RBR and the two RBS since turning up the second RBS have been stable and consistent so far <knock on wood>. All units are at the latest firmware (V3.2.16.6_1.4.4).  No issues with DNS as well (using 1.1.1.1 and 8.8.4.4).  CTS/RTS at 64.

 

Let's hope it stays that way!  Will continue to monitor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Message 24 of 26
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK853 Ping Lags/Drops - Network unusable this morning

So you set a IP address reservation ON the RBR for the RBS at "(192.168.10)" ? 10? IF .10, this is outside of the .100 to .254 range and should not be setting a IP address reservation for a IP address thats out side the DHCP pool, I would remove the reservation. IP address reservations are for devices with IN the DHCP IP address pool. If you set a smaller DHCP pool size, then anything outside this pool size is used for STATIC IP addressed devies which are SET ON devices, NOT on the router. This maybe one reason why your seeing problems. I set IP address reservations for my two RBS in the pool, .101 and .102. These are working for me.

 

 

Message 25 of 26
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