Re: RBR850 Frequent Disconnects Starting March 9th AM EST

warpdag · ‎2020-03-19

Nope, they pushed the old FW to Orbi on 3/9, and published it for direct download on 3/12:

https://kb.netgear.com/000061769/RBR850-RBS850-Firmware-Version-3-2-10-11

cruisencode · ‎2020-03-19

@warpdag wrote:
Nope, they pushed the old FW to Orbi on 3/9, and published it for direct download on 3/12:
https://kb.netgear.com/000061769/RBR850-RBS850-Firmware-Version-3-2-10-11

Exactly. So what were you trying to say in your original post about this? The file they pushed that broke our routers had to have been before 3/12. So, how can the files be the same?

warpdag · ‎2020-03-19

What I'm saying is the original file, aka the broken firmware, was pushed to Orbi on 3/9 and made available for direct download on 3/12. It is the same file currently available on the Netgear firmware server (the server Orbi uses to update itself, not the server hosting the file for user direct download).

MD5 doesn't lie.

bluegoose987 · ‎2020-03-19

If they are using a proper hash then any change to the file would have meant the hash would change. The fact the date changed but hash did not indicates the same file re-uploaded. (probably to try and standardize everyone)

With that said the reason the hash did not change is it was indicated above the issue was on their side and the FW did not actually change. Now I would like to know why their cloud took down my network.

cruisencode · ‎2020-03-19

But, how can it be the same file if the file is dated 3/12 and it was pushed to the Orbi on 3/9? Time travel?

warpdag · ‎2020-03-19

The files come from 2 different servers. It was put on the update server 3 days before it was zipped with the release notes and made available for direct download. That's why the Orbi was updated and we had no clue about the release notes until a couple days later.

Simple.

d1mmy · ‎2020-03-19

Given that both the firmware revision and the MD5 hash are identical, I'm inclined to believe that Netgear have simply pushed the same, broken firmware out that they originally released to their upgrade servers on 3/9. If they had truly fixed a problem, the firmware revision should have been incremented so everyone who isn't visiting these forums and who hadn't downgraded received and installed the fix. My router is a good example of this.

I was in the early group of users here who noticed problems. I downgraded early on, before the firmware was pulled from Netgear's update servers. Because I didn't block Netgear's DNS entries, I was immediately re-upgraded the following night. I never bothered to downgrade again because my network is still marginally functional as-is, however I'm still experiencing issues particularly with my WeMo devices getting disconnected. Netgear re-deployed the same 3/9 firmware version to their upgrade servers yesterday, but my router doesn't see it as an upgrade because it's the same version number. There is no way for me to receive this "fix" without jumping through a bunch of additional hoops, but I'm definitely not going to do that given the information that both the version number and MD5 hash are identical. That would be (nearly) impossible if Netgear had made any changes whatsoever to the "fixed" firmware available now.

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-03-19

NG already said the issue was on there Cloud system. NG seems to fixed issues on there end and not on FW. I was given a more recent version of FW however was told to revert back to v10.11 after testing. This newer version isn't working for me. I'll be reverting later this afternoon.

warpdag · ‎2020-03-19

Yeah so no new firmware like I said.

The cloud part makes no sense to me. The router should work on its own without their "cloud".

bluegoose987 · ‎2020-03-19

That's what I want to understand. Their cloud should be for managemnt plane not data plane so how did their cloud impact our local infrastructure. Even if their cloud went down our local networks shouldn't be impacted, we should just not have management access. This makes me question what in their cloud impacted us all locally.

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-03-19

Seeing more routers and FW that seems to have ties to cloud services these days. Who knows...However it seems that what I said before, there are a few of us who had this version of FW before it was pushing to the public. Saw zero issues. Now when It was pushed to the public on 3/9, NG may have made some bad changes or did quite check there cloud system until v10.11 was pushed out. Something went wrong at this time frame where the public encounterd problems. What ever happend at there cloud systems seems to have effected v10.11 and even reverting to older versions of FW seem to be effected as well as some users posted downgrading to v3.2.9.2 didn't fix, only v3.1 wasn't exhibiting any problems. Seems like something on this cloud system and v3.2.x versions was being effected. We'll probably not know what they did to correct there cloud system. Will certainly keep this in mind should something happen again. I'm sure they will too.

Sure was a crazy past few days for sure.

d1mmy · ‎2020-03-19

Honestly, if something that Netgear is doing to their own infrastructure interferes with my LAN, I will definitely replace my Netgear hardware. I do not want my LAN to be at all reliant on cloud services. That would be insane.

warpdag · ‎2020-03-19

Another reason to move on. The cloud thing is simply absurd, and kinda scary, actually. Since it’s connected to their cloud, what kind of data is your router sharing? Think about it.

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-03-19

Oh ya..I agree. Someone in the Orbi AC forum tracked something in FW there back to China. Ya, who knows what data is being collected. Same with Google and FB and all the rest. Hard to really have any kind of privacy any more. Everyone wants to know who you are, what you do and want you like so they can spam us with stuff to buy. Crazy world now days.

RafS · ‎2020-03-19

Since the firmware is the same, I have to assume that loading the copy I have from the 13th of this month on both my RBR and my RBS this weekend would not cause any issues? I would like to just start from scratch due to all the firmware upgrades and downgrades I've done during the past weekend and have a fresh install of the firmware to begin with.

ekhalil · ‎2020-03-19

@RafS wrote:
Since the firmware is the same, I have to assume that loading the copy I have from the 13th of this month on both my RBR and my RBS this weekend would not cause any issues? I would like to just start from scratch due to all the firmware upgrades and downgrades I've done during the past weekend and have a fresh install of the firmware to begin with.

Sounds like a good approach. Go for it.

Yes, the firmware seems to be not changed.

warpdag · ‎2020-03-19

Correct, despite what some people seem to believe, the firmware hasn’t changed. Ran md5 on both versions and got the same hash.

Now I’m sure someone will again try to prove me wrong by saying there’s something like 0.0000000....00001 chances in a million of a collision between 2 hashes. You’ll be fine.

RafS · ‎2020-03-19

That's what I thought. Thank you both of you..

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-03-19

I loaded v10.11 again to day from the files from NG support site. Orbi AX is back up and running like it was before. Working well.

I loaded mine, factory reset and applied a backup config from file that I had saved on v10.11 prior.

@RafS wrote:
Since the firmware is the same, I have to assume that loading the copy I have from the 13th of this month on both my RBR and my RBS this weekend would not cause any issues? I would like to just start from scratch due to all the firmware upgrades and downgrades I've done during the past weekend and have a fresh install of the firmware to begin with.

DoctorA · ‎2020-03-20

Just reporting Solved problems.

My all wired 3 satellite system is working fine with 40+ devices like it did 10 days ago before March 9.

see attached picture.

I phone X Max and Gaming site disconnecting problems on wired PC desktop is solved since last night.

Good job NG and Thank you to all the posters who reported the problems since March 9th.

Since there are so many experts here now, I have a question, maybe an off topic.

On my Windows 10 PC desktop Chrome open tabs don't refresh after few hours. I have to close the browser and reopen the tabs from recently closed in the History.

computim · ‎2020-03-20

When I pushed for a response on my physcial router having disconnect due to NG cloud this is the response I recieved.

"To answer your question, when your router was first updated to 3.2.10.11, there's a feature on the router that was not updated and causing the disconnection. To fix this, we need to downgrade the firmware to 3.2.9.2 and the firmware would be updated to 3.2.10.11. It's the same version but it now has the fix."

I'd like to know what "feature' but I was told its confidential. Well, I'm not so sure about that answer so I'm challenging it. Anytihing uisng my personal data connection from my house has not been released in any manner. Nor has it been agreed to in any disclosure agreements. I'm positive a laywer will enjoy this response.

computim · ‎2020-03-20

@DoctorA See if this helps

Check to see if your tabs are set to default or disabled:, type in your address bar: chrome://flags, then check this flag: #automatic-tab-discarding (Turn it to 'Default for refresh' and 'Disable to stop refresh')

warpdag · ‎2020-03-20

I guess they needed a week to fix their “server issue”. Makes no sense for a router that can be configured locally via web interface, unless some data goes back and forth, somehow—which means a backdoor is lurking somewhere, lovely.

Preserving all my wiresharks, they could prove useful down the road.

I just bought a couple of Ub!qu!t! APs, that was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me. Netgear won’t take back this turd, time to sell on eBay while the router + 2 satellites version is out of stock on AMZ.

RafS · ‎2020-03-20

@computim wrote:
When I pushed for a response on my physcial router having disconnect due to NG cloud this is the response I recieved.

"To answer your question, when your router was first updated to 3.2.10.11, there's a feature on the router that was not updated and causing the disconnection. To fix this, we need to downgrade the firmware to 3.2.9.2 and the firmware would be updated to 3.2.10.11. It's the same version but it now has the fix."

I'd like to know what "feature' but I was told its confidential. Well, I'm not so sure about that answer so I'm challenging it. Anytihing uisng my personal data connection from my house has not been released in any manner. Nor has it been agreed to in any disclosure agreements. I'm positive a laywer will enjoy this response.

I've been a Netgear fan for a long time but this whole situation has really got me rethinking this. I'd love to know what if anything more you get out of them regarding this situation. I myself don't understand how a cloud issue on Netgears side can pretty much cripple my whole system when all the router is supposed to do is direct the signal coming into my home to the devices that I have in my home. I have an extended warranty on my system and I think that if I talked to the right individual at Best Buy, I can convince them to either let me return this or at least exchange it for another product, but who's to say everyone else is not doing the exact same SHADY thing.

dragonmastr · ‎2020-03-20

I'm pretty much in the same boat. I've been using Netgear routers for decades now both for myself and for my parents (I'm basically their IT guy). With the debacle for the last week and with essentially a confirmation that Netgear has either a backdoor or some kind of shady monitoring service installed on the router, this is definitely the last time that I ever buy a router from Netgear. It may very well turn out that other manufacturers are doing the exact same thing. However, we don't know that for sure. We do know that Netgear sure as hell is.