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Forum Discussion
Client Isolation between Router and Satellites?
I upgraded to an Orbi Router (RBR50) and two Orbi Satellites (RBS50) to get coverage for my house, and the backchannel speed is as great as advertised. That said, I am running into odd network issues...
When you change Orbi to AP mode, the entire system becomes a network of access points with one SSID.
Yes, you would hardwire the Orbi RBR50 Yellow Internet port to a LAN port on your existing router. Yes, you would disable WiFi on your existing gateway.
There is a bug in the current Orbi firmware, where the attached devices list incorrectly shows where devices are attached. Most devices show as connected to the RBR. So, you believe all your devices are attached to your router, but that is almost certainly NOT the case. To be certain which Orbi your devices are connecting to, you would need to check on your devices and see what MAC address they are connecting to for WiFi. If your devices are giving you good throughput, then you don't really need to worry too much about where they are attached.
When Orbi is in AP mode, you can refer to your existing router to get a list of devices on the network. I you have manually configured any devices with a static IP, these devices may not appear in any router device list. Manually configured client devices could also cause IP conflicts which could lead to devices dropping off the network.
Many devices (laptops, cameras, Macs) simply are not designed to roam, and will not roam, so you will need to reboot them or cycle their WiFi off/on after you move the device, or after you reboot or power-cycle Orbi. Note that when Orbi reboots, the RBR will come up first and many of these "sticky" devices will attach to the RBR and stay there.
I don't know what's causing your devices to drop randomly. I have run Orbi in access point mode for a year now and have never encountered this issue, except when I had the satellite too far from the router, or when I had other wireless devices too close to Orbi or improperly configured. Usually these types of issues are caused by RF interference from other devices (wireless speakers, nearby WiFi devices, Bluetooth, etc.) or are due to issues with devices from different manufacturers not working well together. Moving the satellites closer to the RBR, and making sure you separate the Orbis from any other wireless devices might resolve the dropouts,
>>There is a bug in the current Orbi firmware, where the attached devices list incorrectly shows where devices are attached. Most devices show as connected to the RBR. So, you believe all your devices are attached to your router, but that is almost certainly NOT the case.
Not so sure.... I agree, there are some connected to the RBS... because if you look at the Device List in the RBR, the very far right column labled "Connected to Orbi" shows 2 devices connected to Orbi Satellite-1, while ever other device shows connected to the Orbi Router.
So, while I know that an empty list on the RBS doesn't indicate no devices are connected to it, the Router itself only shows 2 devices coming from the Satellite and the rest direct to the Router. It never changes either, no matter where I go in the house or how long I stay there.
Its always the same 2 devices list as Orib Satellite-1 that were first to connect yesterday morning when I shut everything down and brought it all back up 1 at a time.. all 40 devices.
No other device ever shows listed on Satellite-1. Also, I can sit with my phone with an app that measures single strength RIGHT next to the RBS.. it should show 100%... but it shows 45%, as its connecting back to the router which is upstairs and a way from me.
In the Orbi phone app, you can view signal strength. of all the devices that are in range of the RBS (and out of range of the RBR - or at least futher away) all show low signial strength... no matter how close they are to the RBS, which if they were connected to the RBS, the signal strength would be a lot higher that ~40%.. since I have 12 devices withing 8-10 feet of the RBS and NONE of them show over 50%.
So, this single SSID for multiple AP's just doesn't seem to be working. Since, no devices will connect to the RBS except for the very first 2 I turned on yesterday. and one of those 2 is hard wired.
Yes, that list on the router is broken as well. I am sure some of my devices are roaming and appear on the router list as connected exclusively to the router.
Greystorm64 wrote:
>>There is a bug in the current Orbi firmware, where the attached devices list incorrectly shows where devices are attached. Most devices show as connected to the RBR. So, you believe all your devices are attached to your router, but that is almost certainly NOT the case.
Not so sure.... I agree, there are some connected to the RBS... because if you look at the Device List in the RBR, the very far right column labled "Connected to Orbi" shows 2 devices connected to Orbi Satellite-1, while ever other device shows connected to the Orbi Router.
So, while I know that an empty list on the RBS doesn't indicate no devices are connected to it, the Router itself only shows 2 devices coming from the Satellite and the rest direct to the Router. It never changes either, no matter where I go in the house or how long I stay there.
Its always the same 2 devices list as Orib Satellite-1 that were first to connect yesterday morning when I shut everything down and brought it all back up 1 at a time.. all 40 devices.
No other device ever shows listed on Satellite-1. Also, I can sit with my phone with an app that measures single strength RIGHT next to the RBS.. it should show 100%... but it shows 45%, as its connecting back to the router which is upstairs and a way from me.
In the Orbi phone app, you can view signal strength. of all the devices that are in range of the RBS (and out of range of the RBR - or at least futher away) all show low signial strength... no matter how close they are to the RBS, which if they were connected to the RBS, the signal strength would be a lot higher that ~40%.. since I have 12 devices withing 8-10 feet of the RBS and NONE of them show over 50%.
So, this single SSID for multiple AP's just doesn't seem to be working. Since, no devices will connect to the RBS except for the very first 2 I turned on yesterday. and one of those 2 is hard wired.
I would agree with your assessment of the ~40% signal strength indicating you are not connected to the nearest Orbi RBS. Turn your WFi off then on again on you phone and check the strength again. If your phone does not connect to the nearest satellite, then there could be something wrong with your satellite.
In any case, maybe what I wrote wasn't clear, so let me say it another way... There is a bug in the Orbi firmware that causes the attached devices list on the router to show devices that are truly connected to the SATELLITE to appear in the list as connected to the ROUTER. I am saying this could be the reason why you believe almost all your devices are connected to your router. As I write this, my Macbook is connected to the satellite, but it appears in the Orbi list as connected to the Router. The right hand column you are referring to is inaccurate. You cannot rely on it.
Here is one way you can tell for sure where a device is connected. Run a WiFi scanning application and record the mac addresses of your Orbi and satellites (there are two mac addresses per Orbi device--one for 2.4 and one for 5 Ghz), then check on your devices' network properties which mac address they are connected to. On OSX you option-click the WiFi icon to see the mac address of the associated WiFi access point. I'm not sure how to do this on Windows.
Thanks for the recommendations. I did understand your explanation regarding how devices are showing up in the RBR device list, even though they are actually connected to the satallite.
The device list in the RBR does actually show if its connected to the router or a satallite in the last colum.
Unfortunatly, it only shows 2 devices and never another, and those were the first 2 to connect when I reset my entire network.
No new devices show up as connected to a satalite.
I have been testing, everything still only connectst to the RBR. very very annoying. I have a a case open with Netgear, but they don't seem to be in a hurry to fix it.
Greystorm64 wrote:
I have been testing, everything still only connectst to the RBR. very very annoying. I have a a case open with Netgear, but they don't seem to be in a hurry to fix it.
How are you determing that these devices are connecting to the RBR?
I am using an app on my phone that tests signal strength from the devices its connected to. I put it also on my wifes phone and 2 different iPads.
I could be standing right next to the RBS40 or RBS50 and it would show 40-60% but as I walked towards the RBR50 it went up, to 80% when I was standing near the Router. Its the same on all 4 devices while testing proximity to both satallites.
And, yes, I also "forgot" the wifi network over and over and over again, while standing next to a Satallite, and when I would reconnect to the ORBI SSID, the signal strength would show 40-60% again, when I am standing right next to a satallite. It should have been over 80% or higher had any of the devices connected to the closest satallite.
That is how I tested it.
I have a RBR50, RBS50 & RBR40.. and 2 of them are useless, as every device just connects to the router.
And I can see both satallites in the device list of the RBR50 listed as satalites.
Greystorm64 wrote:
I am using an app on my phone that tests signal strength from the devices its connected to. I put it also on my wifes phone and 2 different iPads.
I could be standing right next to the RBS40 or RBS50 and it would show 40-60% but as I walked towards the RBR50 it went up, to 80% when I was standing near the Router. Its the same on all 4 devices while testing proximity to both satallites.
And, yes, I also "forgot" the wifi network over and over and over again, while standing next to a Satallite, and when I would reconnect to the ORBI SSID, the signal strength would show 40-60% again, when I am standing right next to a satallite. It should have been over 80% or higher had any of the devices connected to the closest satallite.
That is how I tested it.
I have a RBR50, RBS50 & RBR40.. and 2 of them are useless, as every device just connects to the router.
And I can see both satallites in the device list of the RBR50 listed as satalites.
Something is not right. Did you manually add the RBSs to your system via the RBR admin GUI? The RBS40 will not automatically connect itself, since it was not part of the RBR kit.
iOS is a poor platform for WiFi scanning, because Apple locks down the OS too much. Do the scanning on a laptop or an Android phone. You need a scanner that will show you the signal strength of all broadcasting APs, not just the strength of the AP your phone is connected to. Run the scan and verify that your satellites are actually broadcasting a signal, and that they are using the same SSID as the RBR.
It sounds like the satellites are not properly connecting to the RBR. It's unlikely both RBSs are broken, so it's probably a firmware or setup issue. I would hard reset the RBR and RBSs, go through the setup process again, making sure you add the RBSs in the RBR admin GUI, and ensure they are all on the same firmware revision.
I have the exact same issue since the latest firmware update. It is so frustrating because it used to work perfectly. My whole intention with the Orbi system was to always pick up the strongest signal. ALL of my devices now lock on and never switch after the latest firmware, including iphones, xboxes, roku, etc.
The only way I can get devices to connect to the satellite is to generally reboot the orbi, then turn wifi on and off on the various devices and they will connect to a satellite if that is the strongest signal.
I am so disheartened because i recently sold my R7000 for a paltry 50 dollars because I saw no need to use it any longer...Orbi has been spectacular for me. Now it is a mess and I have no fall back option. Learned a lesson...don't get rid of the old router.
The RBS40 did auto-sync with the router and is showing up as a satalite in the device list of the router. Both of them are.
I had to have the RBS40 replaced (working with Netgear support), I recieved it yesterday and it had a very old version of firmware. It did auto-sync with the router and devices actually started showing up in the device list on the RBS40. Not as many as I expected, since its just a couple and there are more devices within close proximity to the RBS40 compared to the RBR50 & RBS50.
I then decided to downgrade the firmware on the RBR50/RBS50 to 2.0.0.74 (from .12) and I upgraded the RBS40 to 2.0.0.56 (from 1.8.0.4).
There are devices now appearing in the device lists of both Satallites. Again, not as many as I would expect. I have 40+ devices and over half of them are much closer to a Satallite than the router, but most of them are still connecting to the router. (I know this, because tthe RBR50 Device list actually displays WHAT Router or Satallite each device is connected to in the last column.
Still having drops, and performance really sucks inside the house on the wifi. Internet performance from the RBR50 is very constant to 150+ up/down... even on 5ghz band inside house... I am lucky to get 30mb up/down.. old router, I was doing 150mb on 5ghz.. just had too many dead spots, thus why I switched to the Mesh network.
I have 3 PC's hardwired to the RBR50.. and they ALL consistently get 150mb+.... so, its still the wifi. and I am validating 5ghz vs 2.4ghz.
What tool/app would you recommend to measure the wifi signal and what AP/Router I am connected to. I have been looking for one, but haven't been successful. I can put it on PC's or Android Tablets (we are a mixed family :).
Thanks again for all the guidance. The case is still open with Netgear support, I asked for an update today. They replied that no one is currently working on it, as it needs to be escalated to highest level of support (R&D).
tkshaffer - sorry to hear about the troubles you are having. I understand how disheartened you are.
I an cutting the cord inhouse and really need a solid wifi network. (internet if far sufficient).
I have also put some Alexa's around the house and have started some automation stuff... light switches, power plugs, my security system - auto-locking doors, cameras that can be displayed on Alexa shows.. etc... but the wifi performance is so unpredictable.
I had the Quantum FiOS gateway from Verizon/Frontier as my router before Orbi.. I still have it... I have been considering putting it back in just as the internet router, turning wifi off and putting the RBR50 in bridge mode... but that wont fix my wifi.. and I don't really have an issue with the internet performance. I orginally considered getting a big NighHawk router with an AP or 2, but I really didn't want to introduce complexity for my wife & kids with multiple access points and multiple network SSID's. I like the Orbi in that is totally transparant.. WHEN it works the way its advertized to!
Heres to hoping it get fixed soon, because I think I just went past my 30 day no-question asked return option for the Orbi's..... so I am stuck with them
Sounds like some progress. I have Acrylic WiFi on the PC and inSSIDER on the PC and Mac. On the Android, there are several choices. "WiFiAnalyzer" from VREM Software Development is recommended by many and seems to work OK.
Most of these apps will indicate in some way which AP your device is connected to.
- It speaks to how solid the orbi was that I never even considered the need to keep my old nighthawk. I am currently experiencing expected behavior and devices utilizing appropriate satellites after the latest reboot so we will see. I want to hang on for at least another firmware release before repurchasing another router and just using this as an access point. Like you I apprecited the straightforward nature of the orbi and I know it CAN be great as I have experienced it. Patiently waiting.
st_shaw wrote:Sounds like some progress. I have Acrylic WiFi on the PC and inSSIDER on the PC and Mac. On the Android, there are several choices. "WiFiAnalyzer" from VREM Software Development is recommended by many and seems to work OK.
Most of these apps will indicate in some way which AP your device is connected to.
Thanks for this information. I tried both Acrylic (which had several malware/browser hostage issues) and inSSIDER. Definitley liked the inSSIDER. I was able to walk through the entire house, testing for dead spots and watching signal strength. Very nice tool.
Based on the data, I have no dead zones in or around my house.. and the signal strength throughout the house stays between 21&38... which is very good. its great near the RBR & 2 RBS's. It still doesn't give me the information if devices are actually connected to them and using them to get back to the router.. only that the RBS's are producing a great strong signal.
THanks again. Very very helpful
Greystorm64 I'm glad you got the tool working. It will help you a lot.
It's odd, because I didn't have any of the issues you mentioned with Acrylic. It is possible to get Acrylic Pro to show you WiFI clients and which AP they are associated with, but it requires using one of a very few WiFi adapters that support this capability, and most current WiFi adapters don't support it.