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Ethernet backhaul on orbi

suhassumukhv
Follower

Ethernet backhaul on orbi

I need to buy an Orbi, and my research says the using the ethernet backhaul doesn't free up the wireless 5GHz previous used for wireless backhaul. There's no point if this band can't be used again with normal devices. Will there be a firmware update? Is it in the works?

Message 1 of 8
st_shaw
Master

Re: Ethernet backhaul on orbi

Your research is correct. Your conclusion is a bit backwards though.  Orbi was designed around the concept of wireless backhaul.  The extra radios exist solely to support wireless backhaul and they add significant cost.  So, it would be more correct to say that there is no point to buying Orbi if you plan to use wired backhaul.

 

Wired backhaul was added after the product was released, only because there was strong customer push to add it.  It’s possible NETGEAR might add firmware to leverage the extra radios, but don’t count on it. It would require a lot of firmware work.  There is also no obvious good way to use two sets of radios for clients within the simple single-SSID framework of Orbi. 

Message 2 of 8
ekhalil
Master

Re: Ethernet backhaul on orbi


@st_shaw wrote:

Your research is correct. Your conclusion is a bit backwards though.  Orbi was designed around the concept of wireless backhaul.  The extra radios exist solely to support wireless backhaul and they add significant cost.  So, it would be more correct to say that there is no point to buying Orbi if you plan to use wired backhaul.

 

Wired backhaul was added after the product was released, only because there was strong customer push to add it.  It’s possible NETGEAR might add firmware to leverage the extra radios, but don’t count on it. It would require a lot of firmware work.  There is also no obvious good way to use two sets of radios for clients within the simple single-SSID framework of Orbi. 


@st_shaw In order to make better use of the available 5GHz radio bands, I think that Netgear can -easily- change the firmware to do the following:

- Give the user to choose which channels to use for backhaul, lower or higher channels. Today only 4 lower channels are open for the fronhaul and all the other channels are being only reserved for the backhaul which is a big waste. 

- If No Wireless Backhaul then give the user the possibility to choose to either keep the wireless backhaul active (to be used as a backup if wired backhaul fails) or just disable it. Today, Orbi disables 1x1 2.4GHz and 1x1 5GHz from router and satellite if you only have wired backhaul, so the logic is already in Orbi.

I really count on that Netgear will make such improvements in the coming releases.

Message 3 of 8
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Ethernet backhaul on orbi

You can't forget that the uderlying design of the Orbi is to have a single SSID across the radios being handled by Smart Connect. They designed the Orbi to to as automatic as possible with the use of Smart Connect. NG wants Smart Connect to handle it all and thus doesn't support disabling it. I do agree that it would be nice to make use of the 2nd 5ghz radio, however again, NG or the chipset vendor may have other reasons why they don't support using it in AP mode when the wire is connected. 

Message 4 of 8
st_shaw
Master

Re: Ethernet backhaul on orbi


@ekhalil wrote:


@st_shaw In order to make better use of the available 5GHz radio bands, I think that Netgear can -easily- change the firmware to do the following:

- Give the user to choose which channels to use for backhaul, lower or higher channels. Today only 4 lower channels are open for the fronhaul and all the other channels are being only reserved for the backhaul which is a big waste. 

- If No Wireless Backhaul then give the user the possibility to choose to either keep the wireless backhaul active (to be used as a backup if wired backhaul fails) or just disable it. Today, Orbi disables 1x1 2.4GHz and 1x1 5GHz from router and satellite if you only have wired backhaul, so the logic is already in Orbi.

I really count on that Netgear will make such improvements in the coming releases.


 

- Give the user to choose which channels to use for backhaul, lower or higher channels. Today only 4 lower channels are open for the fronhaul and all the other channels are being only reserved for the backhaul which is a big waste. 

 

Orbi uses 80 MHz channel width.  NETGEAR avoids DFS channels, because some clients don't support them, and radar stations can cause DFS channels to go offline.  There are only two non-DFS 80 MHz channels.  NETGEAR uses the high channel for the backhaul and the low channel for clients.  That's why you cannot change which 80 MHz channel Orbi uses for clients. I don't see what's wasted here, as both available 80 Mhz channels are fully utilized. About all you could do is allow swapping high and low channels between the client and backhaul.

 

- If No Wireless Backhaul then give the user the possibility to choose to either keep the wireless backhaul active (to be used as a backup if wired backhaul fails) or just disable it.

 

 

It does seem redundant to keep wireless backhaul active when wired is in use, but I suppose some people will use wired for one sat and wireless for another simultaneously.  The outdoor satellite is wirelss only, so you cannot disable wirless backhaul and support that.  I don't know for sure, but it seems like Orbi is still using wireless backhaul for satellite discovery and synchronization.  I suspect disabling the wireless backhaul might require a major re-write of Orbi firmware. 

 

- Today, Orbi disables 1x1 2.4GHz and 1x1 5GHz from router and satellite if you only have wired backhaul, so the logic is already in Orbi.

 

I'm not sure what you're saying there. 

 

Message 5 of 8
Venter
Aspirant

Re: Ethernet backhaul on orbi

Would this mean that if I want to make use of wired backhaul it would be be better to use Rbk40 system as it is cheaper and still has gigabit ethernet? The 2.4 and 5 GHz fronthaul is still the same if I understand correctly. If I therefore do not plan to use the wireless backhaul there should be no difference in performance. Correct?
Model: RBS40|Orbi AC2200 Tri-band WiFi Add-on Satellite
Message 6 of 8
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Ethernet backhaul on orbi

If your connecting the RBS via wired and not wireless then you could get the 40 series for it's front haul wireless abiliites. Just now that if you switch to wireless backhaul, you'll be limited to 866Mb on the back end instead of 1700Mb. 


@Venter wrote:
Would this mean that if I want to make use of wired backhaul it would be be better to use Rbk40 system as it is cheaper and still has gigabit ethernet? The 2.4 and 5 GHz fronthaul is still the same if I understand correctly. If I therefore do not plan to use the wireless backhaul there should be no difference in performance. Correct?



Message 7 of 8
ekhalil
Master

Re: Ethernet backhaul on orbi


@Venter wrote:
Would this mean that if I want to make use of wired backhaul it would be be better to use Rbk40 system as it is cheaper and still has gigabit ethernet? The 2.4 and 5 GHz fronthaul is still the same if I understand correctly. If I therefore do not plan to use the wireless backhaul there should be no difference in performance. Correct?

Yes, by using wired backhaul you will get the full backhaul bandwidth on the RBK40.

The only remaining advantage of RBK50 over RBK40 is the fronthaul antennas which are bigger and more powerfull in RBK50 over RBK40.

Message 8 of 8
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