Re: Forced Firmware updates BRICKED AP mode

juankt · ‎2021-10-22

I have the Costco Special RBK753 (AX4200) recent "forced" firmware updates have "bricked" the ability to run them in AP mode. Firmware versions 3 and earlier were perfectly fine and completely flawless but versions 4 are total crap! If I have the configuration set to "router mode" all is well (but I cannot browse devices on my wired network hence my desire to configure them as AP's). however whe i switch them to AP mode the wifi connected devices will work for 20-30 seconds and then drop for 10-15 seconds and before reconnecting. Similarly the sattelites constantly lose connectivity and then re-connect only to lose connectivity. Also the indicator lights on the sattelites are a constant purple.

I have tested and retested this with several wifi clients. Id REALLY like to know how to roll back to firmware version 3 or get firmware that actually works so i don't have to return these now USELESS devices.

juankt · ‎2021-10-22

Fyi the crap FIRMWARE that does NOT support AP mode is V4.6.5.14

CrimpOn · ‎2021-10-22

@juankt wrote:
! If I have the configuration set to "router mode" all is well (but I cannot browse devices on my wired network hence my desire to configure them as AP's)

I have no magic bullet for the 750 firmware issue. Techniques that work to block firmware updates on the original Orbi models are not available on the 750. But.....

Would like to hear more about the issue with wired devices. These devices are not connected to the Orbi products (router and satellites)? But are instead connected to a router that the Orbi is also connected to? And, it is not convenient to move them to the Orbi system?

If this is the case, then it might be possible to create a static route on that upstream router so that packets intended for devices on the Orbi will know "where to go."

wwlen1 · ‎2021-10-23

If you are running in access point mode, then you have another router providing the routing functions.

In that case, you could just block the Netgear sites using the blocking functions on the primary router.

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-10-23

Netgear has set up a community forum specifically for the Orbi AX (WiFi 6) products. Most of the people who watch that forum are more likely to have experience with Orbi AX and know how to work it better than those of us who follow this "general Orbi" forum. Might be more likely to find someone who has a solution if the question is posted there:
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-AX/bd-p/en-home-orbi-ax

Actually all FW versions support AP mode on Orbi AX systems. I just had my 8 series in AP mode for a while, now it's back in router mode. Blocking isn't needed while in AP mode.

Thank you.

juankt · ‎2021-12-09

Actually the AP mode while it's appears to be supported causes the Satellites to FAIL to connect over wifi. I've tried this with three separate ORBI RBK750 sets. Moreover it's quite easy to repro...

Repro:

Configure RBR750 in router mode
Connect to satellites using wifi (standard procedure)
Update to latest firmware 4.6.5.14
Move the wired connection to the local network FROM the internet port to one of the Ethernet ports
While connected wirelessly to satellites login to Router and change to AP mode.
Wait for router to come back up.
Both satellites will NEVER connect wirelessly Indicators remain Purple and Router "connected devices" page shows the satellites as "Disconnected"
.

wwlen1 · ‎2021-12-09

Move the wired connection to the local network FROM the internet port to one of the Ethernet ports.

That's the problem.

Unlike most other routers where you are expected to do this, the Orbi stays in the internet port.

juankt · ‎2021-12-09

That is NOT correct, I ran sucessfully in AP mode for MONTHS exactly as I described... In face if configured in AP mode and connected local network to the rbr the light indicator on the RBR would show purple. Finally, I've tried leaving the hard wired connection in the "internet port" it does NOT work.

juankt · ‎2021-12-09

@CrimpOn wrote:
@juankt wrote:
! If I have the configuration set to "router mode" all is well (but I cannot browse devices on my wired network hence my desire to configure them as AP's)
I have no magic bullet for the 750 firmware issue. Techniques that work to block firmware updates on the original Orbi models are not available on the 750. But.....

Would like to hear more about the issue with wired devices. These devices are not connected to the Orbi products (router and satellites)? But are instead connected to a router that the Orbi is also connected to? And, it is not convenient to move them to the Orbi system?

If this is the case, then it might be possible to create a static route on that upstream router so that packets intended for devices on the Orbi will know "where to go."

I have dozens of wired network devices, I need network discovery across those network devices from a WIRELESSLY connected device (ala iPhone) for them to function. Hence moving them to the orbi routing is NOT preferrable. Moreover I have several different IOS apps that access the different wired devices, static routing is not possible for some apps and even if it were would be a nightmare to administer.

juankt · ‎2021-12-09

Wow I'm amazed at how people do not actually read posts. The principal problem is that Satellites RBS will NOT connect to the Orbi Router RBR via wireless the MINUTE you enable AP mode. My devices that are close (with the most recent firmware) can connect to the router but the router will NOT connect to the satellites. They stay purple.

juankt · ‎2021-12-09

@wwlen1 wrote:
If you are running in access point mode, then you have another router providing the routing functions.

In that case, you could just block the Netgear sites using the blocking functions on the primary router.

Wow I'm amazed at how people do not actually read posts. The principal problem is that Satellites RBS will NOT connect to the Orbi Router RBR via wireless the MINUTE you enable AP mode. My devices that are close (with the most recent firmware) can connect to the router but the router will NOT connect to the satellites. They stay purple.

juankt · ‎2021-12-09

@wwlen1 wrote:
Move the wired connection to the local network FROM the internet port to one of the Ethernet ports.

That's the problem.

Unlike most other routers where you are expected to do this, the Orbi stays in the internet port.

That is NOT correct, I ran sucessfully in AP mode for MONTHS exactly as I described... In fact if configured in AP mode and connected local network to the rbr the light indicator on the RBR would show purple. Finally, I've tried leaving the hard wired connection in the "internet port" the results ARE THE SAME.

juankt · ‎2021-12-09

@juankt wrote:
@wwlen1 wrote:
Move the wired connection to the local network FROM the internet port to one of the Ethernet ports.

That's the problem.

Unlike most other routers where you are expected to do this, the Orbi stays in the internet port.
That is NOT correct, I ran sucessfully in AP mode for MONTHS exactly as I described... In fact if configured in AP mode and connected local network to the rbr the light indicator on the RBR would show purple. Finally, I've tried leaving the hard wired connection in the "internet port" the results ARE THE SAME.

Additionally if I plug the RBR via the "internet" port running in AP mode the RBR BLOCKS network discovery demonstrated by showing "zero" wired connected devices. Whereas If I'm plugged into one of the ethernet ports I see all my devices that are connected via WIRED connection.

While I appreciate suggestions, I do get frustrated sometimes when folks offer incorrect information.

Attached image shows RBR showing "wired" devices.

juankt · ‎2021-12-09

@juankt wrote:
@juankt wrote:
@wwlen1 wrote:
Move the wired connection to the local network FROM the internet port to one of the Ethernet ports.

That's the problem.

Unlike most other routers where you are expected to do this, the Orbi stays in the internet port.
That is NOT correct, I ran sucessfully in AP mode for MONTHS exactly as I described... In fact if configured in AP mode and connected local network to the rbr the light indicator on the RBR would show purple. Finally, I've tried leaving the hard wired connection in the "internet port" the results ARE THE SAME.
Additionally if I plug the RBR via the "internet" port running in AP mode the RBR BLOCKS network discovery demonstrated by showing "zero" wired connected devices. Whereas If I'm plugged into one of the ethernet ports I see all my devices that are connected via WIRED connection.

While I appreciate suggestions, I do get frustrated sometimes when folks offer incorrect information.

Attached image shows RBR showing "wired" devices.

This attached image shows what happens when I plug the wired connection into the "internet" port while running in AP mode... All the local "Wired" devices disappear!

wwlen1 · ‎2021-12-09

Sorry if that is wrong for your Orbi.

I assumed that it worked the same way that Netgear recommends:

https://kb.netgear.com/31218/How-do-I-configure-my-Orbi-router-to-act-as-an-access-point

As it worked when I set it up that way on my RBR40

wwlen1 · ‎2021-12-09

Right, with upgraded firmware. He can down grade the firmware and then use the main router to block access to the Netgear upgrade sites.

juankt · ‎2021-12-09

@wwlen1 wrote:
Right, with upgraded firmware. He can down grade the firmware and then use the main router to block access to the Netgear upgrade sites.

And another useless comment. If it were only that simple. You see the RBK750's have disabled 1. The ability to disable auto firmware updates. 2. To make it even more impossible to manage they disabled telnet which would be reuquired to re-disable auto firmware update.

Net: If you don't have recommendations that you can backup (or prove they work) please just keep them to yourself.

CrimpOn · ‎2021-12-09

Oh, my. Someone DID NOT READ a post. Yes, Netgear has diabled telnet on the AX Orbi's. Yes, without telnet those telnet hacks that worked on the original Orbi (at least for a while) cannot be implemented. There are actually two proven methods to prevent automatic firmware updates:

On an external router (not on the Orbi) block access to the Netgear update web site.
Sign up for an account with OpenDNS and use OpenDNS to block access to the Netgear web site.
(Selecting OpenDNS for the DNS servers on the primary router)

wwlen1 · ‎2021-12-09

Thanks,

You kept me from having to retype that.

CrimpOn · ‎2021-12-09

I love the OpenDNS method. A lot of subscribers have only a plain modem or a combo unit that they cannot get into, so using a router to block updates represents additional expense and complexity. Even a 'free' OpenDNS account seems to work. (At least the person who discovered it claims that it does. I have not needed to block updates <yet>.)

juankt · ‎2021-12-09

@CrimpOn wrote:
Oh, my. Someone DID NOT READ a post. Yes, Netgear has diabled telnet on the AX Orbi's. Yes, without telnet those telnet hacks that worked on the original Orbi (at least for a while) cannot be implemented. There are actually two proven methods to prevent automatic firmware updates:

On an external router (not on the Orbi) block access to the Netgear update web site.
Sign up for an account with OpenDNS and use OpenDNS to block access to the Netgear web site.
(Selecting OpenDNS for the DNS servers on the primary router)

Ok block the Netgear web update site... please share a link to the post that defines the url or IP address of the update web site.

CrimpOn · ‎2021-12-09

That would be: https://http.fw.updates1.netgear.com

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-12-10

@juankt wrote:
I have the Costco Special RBK753 (AX4200) recent "forced" firmware updates have "bricked" the ability to run them in AP mode. Firmware versions 3 and earlier were perfectly fine and completely flawless but versions 4 are total crap! If I have the configuration set to "router mode" all is well (but I cannot browse devices on my wired network hence my desire to configure them as AP's). however whe i switch them to AP mode the wifi connected devices will work for 20-30 seconds and then drop for 10-15 seconds and before reconnecting. Similarly the sattelites constantly lose connectivity and then re-connect only to lose connectivity. Also the indicator lights on the sattelites are a constant purple.

I have tested and retested this with several wifi clients. Id REALLY like to know how to roll back to firmware version 3 or get firmware that actually works so i don't have to return these now USELESS devices.

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-WiFi-6-AX-and-WiFi-6E-AXE/Firmware-v4-Breaks-AP-mode-on-the-OR...