Re: Orbi Firmware Update 2.5.0.40

chrisuk · ‎2019-11-10

Does anyone know what's in 2.5.0.40? All I can see from the software release is "Updates the https certificate"

- it's described as a Hot Fix, but I would love to see a tad more detail.

I had web access issues with my RSR50 when I tried 2.5.0.38 and so downgraded the RSR50 back to 2.3.5.30. One RBS50 is now 2.5.0.38 and the other is 2.3.0.40. So far, so good.

chrisuk · ‎2019-11-10

Correction - I had web access issues with my RSR50 when I tried 2.5.0.38 and so downgraded the RSR50 back to 2.3.5.30. One RBS50 is now 2.5.0.38 and the other is 2.5.0.40. So far, so good.

FURRYe38 · ‎2019-11-10

So looks like the certificate fix is the only thing seen in v40.

https://kb.netgear.com/000061393/RBR50-RBS50-Firmware-Version-2-5-0-40-Hot-Fix

tomschmidt · ‎2019-11-12

I manually updated my firmware from V2.5.0.38 to V2.5.0.40 to see if it would also fix the device naming issue. It did for some devices, but others it will not allow me to change. So the v40 hot fix did not resolve the device naming issue. Note that I did not do a factory reset as it takes me hours to reconfigure the device manually. I did not test v40 for the https issue that it is supposed to address.

Retired_Member · ‎2019-11-12

IF your network is working, why would you want to upgrade?

CrimpOn · ‎2019-11-12

@tomschmidt wrote:
I manually updated my firmware from V2.5.0.38 to V2.5.0.40 to see if it would also fix the device naming issue. It did for some devices, but others it will not allow me to change. So the v40 hot fix did not resolve the device naming issue.

Thank you for giving it a try. If nobody installed firmware updates, those of us who "wait and see" would have no reports to base upgrade decisions on.

HazardousTim · ‎2019-11-12

@Retired_Member wrote:
IF your network is working, why would you want to upgrade?

If there are possibly security fixes in a new firmware version why would you NOT want to upgrade? They release these firmware updates to resolve known issues.

CrimpOn · ‎2019-11-12

@HazardousTim wrote:

If there are possibly security fixes in a new firmware version why would you NOT want to upgrade? They release these firmware updates to resolve known issues.

You raise a good question. For me, it is a "Risk/Reward" calculation. Yes, new firmware often "fixes things", but they not be features that I rely on. Netgear's track record with Orbi firmware updates is abysmal. This latest fiasco is not the first time that people who updated Orbi firmware faced horrible problems that sucked their time and energy to the point that they "went back."

With my Windows PC and my Linux machines, I regularly update software. With the Orbi, I have learned to "wait and see". I agree with @Retired_Member that "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Where I differ is that sometimes things actually are broken and I am simply not aware of it. If new Orbi firmware comes out. People install it and exclaim, "FINALLY, so-and-so is FIXED." (and nothing got broken along the way), I will probably update. With 2.5.0.38/40, it looks like, "Run Bambi. Run."

Wire1852 · ‎2019-11-12

What I waiting to hear is if anyone has upgrade to 2.5.0.40 from a version other than 2.5.0.38 without encountering any issues (like 2.3.5.30). I would like the security certificate update of the expired Aug security certificate, but after the issues of 2.5.0.38 no way am I updating first to 2.5.0.38.

They only thing I believe is in the update is the security certificate which should have been updated months ago. Notice the hot fix is a beta indicating this is a new process which Netgear threw together after missing putting the security certificate in 2.5.0.38. How many hot fixes has Netgear done previously on the Orbi?

It's disappointing Netgear provides next to no info (a single line) on what's in the hot fix. It's also disappointing that no one from Netgear will post on this forum on these issues and when they'll be addressed.

tomschmidt · ‎2019-11-12

@Wire1852 wrote:
It's disappointing Netgear provides next to no info (a single line) on what's in the hot fix. It's also disappointing that no one from Netgear will post on this forum on these issues and when they'll be addressed.

Likewise I am extremely disappointed with the lack of support from NG. I have had multiple tickets opened with them on the Orbi due to firmware bugs. They even replaced my RBR50 under RMA once to try to fix the DNS resolver issues that it had with earlier firmware. All that their support can suggest is resetting back to factory and programming the settings manually. However even with the V2.5.0.38 release, this does not fix the device naming issue.

NG support likewise cannot give the customers any expected timeline for fixes to the firmware. Their regression testing (if they even do regression testing) should have caught the device naming bug before the V2.5.0.38 release. The v40 hot fix does not address this issue either.

I just this week checked these Community Forums for support since NG tech support is extremely lacking even with extended warranty support on my system. I have never had so many issues with any network or computer hardware in my last 35+ years in the tech industry.

pablohoney · ‎2019-11-13

It must be a slow roll out as when I check for updates both my router and satelitte are showing as up to date on .38

Retired_Member · ‎2019-11-13

@tomschmidt wrote:
@Wire1852 wrote:
It's disappointing Netgear provides next to no info (a single line) on what's in the hot fix. It's also disappointing that no one from Netgear will post on this forum on these issues and when they'll be addressed.
Likewise I am extremely disappointed with the lack of support from NG.

Please keep one thing possibly in mind, in the case of firmware glitches, IF you did a manual update, you are partially to blame. I know that's not the 100% solution, but think about it, IF your system was working, why upgrade? On the other hand IF a auto pushed firmware upgrarde sinks your network, you only have NG to blame.

FURRYe38 · ‎2019-11-13

You can manually download and manually upgrade v40 if you want too. I loaded mine last nite, factory reset. Loaded backup config file.

http://kb.netgear.com/en_US/000061393/

@pablohoney wrote:
It must be a slow roll out as when I check for updates both my router and satelitte are showing as up to date on .38

CrimpOn · ‎2019-11-13

@pablohoney wrote:
It must be a slow roll out as when I check for updates both my router and satelitte are showing as up to date on .38

My system on 2.3.5.30 also shows "No new firmware." In other words, Netgear is no longer encouraging updates past 2.3.5.30.

Wire1852 · ‎2019-11-13

So for one Orbi user it says his firmware 2.5.0.38 is up to date and for your Orbi it says your rollback firmware 2.3.5.30 is up to date.

How can both be considered up to date at the same time? Obviously Netgear resides in Bizarro world.

@CrimpOn wrote:
@pablohoney wrote:
It must be a slow roll out as when I check for updates both my router and satelitte are showing as up to date on .38
My system on 2.3.5.30 also shows "No new firmware." In other words, Netgear is no longer encouraging updates past 2.3.5.30.

Retired_Member · ‎2019-11-13

IMO.....firmware is update/current IF it was auto pushed with no action by user.

All other firmware should be viewed as 'user option'. I would recommend reading the release notes if avaiable. However, based on what we've seen here, use caution as the manual update option may not be ready for prime time.

HTBruceM · ‎2019-11-13

@CrimpOn wrote:
@pablohoney wrote:
It must be a slow roll out as when I check for updates both my router and satelitte are showing as up to date on .38
My system on 2.3.5.30 also shows "No new firmware." In other words, Netgear is no longer encouraging updates past 2.3.5.30.

My system is on 2.3.5.30. A week or so ago it was telling me that a new firmware was available but I didn't install it because I didn't want to temporarily disrupt internet access at that moment. I forgot about it for a while, then went into the Orbi Web interface just now. I got the expected banner at the top saying a new firmware was available, like before. So I went to the Orbi FW update page under Advanced-Administration and waited for the "current version" and "status" fields in the table to update. The new FW banner at the top disappeared and the status field updated to say "no new firmware version available". So clearly, there has been a pullback of some sort at NG.

BTW my system(s) have been rock solid for weeks, no hiccups at all. I can even roam between access points while video chatting (on Google Duo) without any drops. Impressive.

My configuration: Double-NATed configuration - a FIOS router sits in front of the RBR50/RBS50/RBS50 and an RBR20/RBS20.

I actually added the 2-pack at Costco (the smaller Orbi RBR20/RBS20) and use it for my IOT (unsecure) network. This means I'm in the "three dumb router" configuration promoted by Steve Gibson. I have one port forward that I had to configure in both the FIOS router and the RBR50 (for Plex remote access) and this is working fine. Unlike some folks, I never experienced any double-NAT issues, so I don't feel a need to put the FIOS router into bridge mode.

EduardH · ‎2019-11-14

Hi all,
I spoke with NETGEAR support.
Netgear refers to the .30 as “the last stable version” this version does not have the device naming issues. I will not upgrade to .40 seems a very small fix and existing problems still occur.

Wire1852 · ‎2019-11-14

AND WHY DOESN'T NETGEAR POST AN ANNOUNCEMENT ON THESE FORUMS THAT 2.3.5.30 IS "THE LAST STABLE VERSION"?

AND WHY DOESN'T NETGEAR POST AN ANNOUNCEMENT ON THE NETGEAR DOWNLOAD SITE THAT 2.3.5.30 IS "THE LAST STABLE VERSION"?

Whoever is the Program Manager for the Orbi Firmware Development should be fired immediately. After 2 failed firmware releases credibility is gone.

@EduardH wrote:
Hi all,
I spoke with NETGEAR support.
Netgear refers to the .30 as “the last stable version” this version does not have the device naming issues. I will not upgrade to .40 seems a very small fix and existing problems still occur.

Retired_Member · ‎2019-11-14

Here's my thought on the current NG firmware testing/ implementation:

When a firmware is believed to be ready for first time release, it is made available by way of the Orbi login - user manually updates.

This firmware may have 'bugs' which hopefully will be reported, NG responds, fixes, and re-issues (same number?) the firmware, this time as a auto push for it is felt all bugs have been worked out.

Under this process, those that choose to manually upgrade their firmware in essence have become a part of the beta tester group.

I say this for I don't perform manual updates, yet over time (6 months) my firmware is updated with firmware that back 6 months ago was full of problems, yet my network continues to hum along with No changes on my part.

Just my 2 cents. Your mileage may vary.

Wire1852 · ‎2019-11-14

Since you don't do manual updates you really aren't aware of the current process. If you login to the router through the web and go to firmware updates you see an online update page & a manual update page. The online web page indicates if there is a new update and you can update if desired. The manual web page requires you to first download the firmware you want installed & then you install it.

If Netgear tells you new software is ready to be installed & you install it & encounter problems, the user is not responsible for this blunder, Netgear is.

You seem to be sold on auto updates yet people have reported that their system was auto update to V 2.5.0.38 and then they had to rollbacked to a more stable version. Netgear has not indicated what the requirements are for an update to done on a specific system or user. By your logic since you depended on the auto update to be ok and it was bad, then you're partially to blame for Netgear mistakes. Bottomline - it's totally Netgear's screwup.

Netgear's Orbi won a lot of awards/recommendations this year. I wonder what the response will be in 6 months when those organizations update people on the product's stability & Netgear's support to it?

@Retired_Member wrote:

Under this process, those that choose to manually upgrade their firmware in essence have become a part of the beta tester group.

I say this for I don't perform manual updates, yet over time (6 months) my firmware is updated with firmware that back 6 months ago was full of problems, yet my network continues to hum along with No changes on my part.

Just my 2 cents. Your mileage may vary.

Retired_Member · ‎2019-11-14

@Wire1852 wrote:
Since you don't do manual updates you really aren't aware of the current process.

Never said I'm not aware of what's going on. I login and see that a update is available, I choose to pass. The process you describe, I'm fully aware. Been playing this game for years.

If Netgear tells you new software is ready to be installed & you install it & encounter problems, the user is not responsible for this blunder, Netgear is.

Perhaps, But it was an option. My position is why would anyone update IF your system is working?

You seem to be sold on auto updates yet people have reported that their system was auto update to V 2.5.0.38 and then they had to rollbacked to a more stable version. Netgear has not indicated what the requirements are for an update to done on a specific system or user. By your logic since you depended on the auto update to be ok and it was bad, then you're partially to blame for Netgear mistakes. Bottomline - it's totally Netgear's screwup.

And again, I never claim the process I described here to be 100% accurate. IF I rely solely on auto updates then encounter a problem, I don't blame myself for I did nothing. IF I'm looking to blame anyone I would look to NG. If I 'HAD' to blame myself it would be for the original purchase. But then most router companies pretty much follow the same process. Some better than others.

At the end of the day, I'm not the one in this community complainning about a firmware that I manually installed only to have it foul up my network. And if I did, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't post (might read) my complaint only to be feed 1000 questions about everything unrelated to the real problem.

@Retired_Member wrote:

Under this process, those that choose to manually upgrade their firmware in essence have become a part of the beta tester group.

I say this for I don't perform manual updates, yet over time (6 months) my firmware is updated with firmware that back 6 months ago was full of problems, yet my network continues to hum along with No changes on my part.

Just my 2 cents. Your mileage may vary.

OHChristine · ‎2019-11-14

Alos, as someone who just purchased an Orbi in the past month, and who immediately just went ahead and downloaded the most recent firmware update (.038) , why wouldn't Netgear make their MOST STABLE version available for download?

I'm not a supertech genius, but I'm experiencing connectivity issues (on just two Apple devices) and trying to troubleshoot. I'd like, before going through the hassle of boxing it up and returning it, the option to use THE MOST STABLE FIRMWARE. Why wouldn't a company allow that?

Now they get my return.

Retired_Member · ‎2019-11-14

@OHChristine wrote:
Alos, as someone who just purchased an Orbi in the past month, and who immediately just went ahead and downloaded the most recent firmware update (.038) , why wouldn't Netgear make their MOST STABLE version available for download?

I'm not a supertech genius, but I'm experiencing connectivity issues (on just two Apple devices) and trying to troubleshoot. I'd like, before going through the hassle of boxing it up and returning it, the option to use THE MOST STABLE FIRMWARE. Why wouldn't a company allow that?

Now they get my return.

I have to ask.....define 'downloaded'

How was this performed? After the initial install?

OHChristine · ‎2019-11-14

Through the app.

I did not manually download the update.

I clicked the button "check for updates." And then followed the prompts.