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Orbi WiFi 7 RBE973
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Orbi rebooting itself daily

sAmiZZle
Tutor

Orbi rebooting itself daily

Hi all,

 

Ever since getting my Netgear Orbi I have been experiencing regular reboots. When the WiFi connection drops on whatever device I am using, I immediately go to check the Orbi and sure enough the satellite is flashing with the magenta ring trying to reconnect and the router is flashing with the white ring because it is rebooting. Once it restarts and the satellite reconnects it shows the blue ring which I believe indicates it has a good connection. After this it is fine usually for at least a day or more. The satellite is connected to the router via WiFi backhaul. The router is connected to the wall power socket and not any extension power board, so at least I know it can't be a dodgy power supply issue.

 

Because the logs get cleared whenever it reboots I can't really anlayse what is happening to the router at the time of the reboot. Because of this I enabled the logging from the router's debug.htm page in the hope that these would be persistent after the reboot. I had the "WAN Port mirror to LAN port1" option checked. Only problem is I don't know how to read these logs and am not sure if they have also cleared after it rebooted. I've uploaded the debug-log here in case anyone can help decipher these.The rough time that the router restarted was on 1 Dec at about 4:25pm. I also captured the LAN/WAN packet logs to USB stick, but these are about 280MB, so I haven't uploaded these. If you think these are going to be useful then I can try uploading these as well. 

 

I previously used the Netgear Nighthawk R7000 router and it was perfectly stable and never reset once in the many years that I was using it. The only reason I replaced it was to get better coverage all the way to the front of my house. There are other WiFi networks around my house but I am on different channels to those. Also, the Nighthawk never was troubled by these so I don't see why the Orbi should be.

 

I am on the latest V2.5.0.38 firmware on both the router and the sattellite. Although I've been experiencing this issue on all versions of firmware since I got the Orbi (I think I've had the Orbi since the last 3 versions). I've tried playing around with the settings as described below but the router continues to reboot itself. I am completely at a loss as to what to do from here.

 

So far this is what I have tried across the last 3 versions of firmware updates with no success yet:

  1. NetGear Armour - disabled
  2. Parental Controls - disabled
  3. Manually changing the WiFi channels:
    • 2.4Ghz channel: 11 (manually set)
    • 5Ghz channel: 40
  4. I've experiement with the following settings disabled and enabled and it has made no difference to the rebooting issue. At the moment these are set as follows:
    • Implicit BEAMFORMING - enabled
    • MU-MIMO - enabled
    • Fast Roaming - disabled
  5. Enable WMM (Wi-Fi multimedia) settings
  6. I've done a full factory reset on both the router and the satellite whilst on the latest V2.5.0.38 firmware (using the pin reset mothod)

Someone please help!

 

 

Model: RBK53|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi System
Message 1 of 69

Accepted Solutions
sAmiZZle
Tutor

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily

@FURRYe38 , @CrimpOn  Well I've gone through the process of the RMA and whilst Netgear explicitly asked me to only return the router and not the satellite, they have sent me a replacement kit containing both! It is an RBK50, but I believe the reason why they've sent the whole kit is because there is an RBR50v2 and RBS50v2 inside. Could be likely that the RBS50 is not compatible or they don't want to take that risk?

 

Can confirm as others have mentioned that the power adapters on the V2 revision are lower output and look smaller, yellower and cheaper. I haven't looked into whethere there are any other differences on the actual router or satellite hardware yet. But, to be honest, if that's what comes in the new kit I don't really care as long as it is all stable and works.

 

I've just set it up and done a firmware update in the app to V2.5.1.8. It says there is no newer firmware version available in the app. On the Netgear support page, however, for the RBR50v2 it says the latest current version is the same as the original RBR50 - which is the 2.3.5.34 Hot Fix! I'm now very cautious about applying firmware updates from the support page on this router as they seem to be on a completely different branch (2.3.x.x instead of 2.5.x.x) and there is absolutely no mention of a 2.5.x.x even in the previous versions! Weird!!!??

 

So, I will refrain from doing a manual firware update at this point and just see how it all goes from here!

View solution in original post

Message 43 of 69

All Replies
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily

Is there a pattern to the reboots?  A regular interval between them?

 

Just a note: many people have been disappointed with the 2.5.0.38 firmware and have manually "gone back" to 2.3.5.30.  This obviously has nothing to do with your situation, but should you notice other issues, you might keep it in mind.

 

When WAN traffic is mirrored to Port 1, there has to be a computer connected to Port 1 which collects all the packets for later analysis.  Since the log file is clear upon reboot, those packets are exactly what might be used to diagnose the situation.

Message 2 of 69
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily

What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?

What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. https://kb.netgear.com/000036466/How-far-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite-from-my-Orbi-router

 

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

 

Usually Mirror WAN to LAN 1 is disabled when used in router mode. Are you using the RBR in AP Mode? 


@sAmiZZle wrote:

Hi all,

 

Ever since getting my Netgear Orbi I have been experiencing regular reboots. When the WiFi connection drops on whatever device I am using, I immediately go to check the Orbi and sure enough the satellite is flashing with the magenta ring trying to reconnect and the router is flashing with the white ring because it is rebooting. Once it restarts and the satellite reconnects it shows the blue ring which I believe indicates it has a good connection. After this it is fine usually for at least a day or more. The satellite is connected to the router via WiFi backhaul. The router is connected to the wall power socket and not any extension power board, so at least I know it can't be a dodgy power supply issue.

 

Because the logs get cleared whenever it reboots I can't really anlayse what is happening to the router at the time of the reboot. Because of this I enabled the logging from the router's debug.htm page in the hope that these would be persistent after the reboot. I had the "WAN Port mirror to LAN port1" option checked. Only problem is I don't know how to read these logs and am not sure if they have also cleared after it rebooted. I've uploaded the debug-log here in case anyone can help decipher these.The rough time that the router restarted was on 1 Dec at about 4:25pm. I also captured the LAN/WAN packet logs to USB stick, but these are about 280MB, so I haven't uploaded these. If you think these are going to be useful then I can try uploading these as well. 

 

I previously used the Netgear Nighthawk R7000 router and it was perfectly stable and never reset once in the many years that I was using it. The only reason I replaced it was to get better coverage all the way to the front of my house. There are other WiFi networks around my house but I am on different channels to those. Also, the Nighthawk never was troubled by these so I don't see why the Orbi should be.

 

I am on the latest V2.5.0.38 firmware on both the router and the sattellite. Although I've been experiencing this issue on all versions of firmware since I got the Orbi (I think I've had the Orbi since the last 3 versions). I've tried playing around with the settings as described below but the router continues to reboot itself. I am completely at a loss as to what to do from here.

 

So far this is what I have tried across the last 3 versions of firmware updates with no success yet:

  1. NetGear Armour - disabled
  2. Parental Controls - disabled
  3. Manually changing the WiFi channels:
    • 2.4Ghz channel: 11 (manually set)
    • 5Ghz channel: 40
  4. I've experiement with the following settings disabled and enabled and it has made no difference to the rebooting issue. At the moment these are set as follows:
    • Implicit BEAMFORMING - enabled
    • MU-MIMO - enabled
    • Fast Roaming - disabled
  5. Enable WMM (Wi-Fi multimedia) settings
  6. I've done a full factory reset on both the router and the satellite whilst on the latest V2.5.0.38 firmware (using the pin reset mothod)

Someone please help!

 

 


 

Message 3 of 69
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily


@FURRYe38 wrote:

 

Usually Mirror WAN to LAN 1 is disabled when used in router mode. Are you using the RBR in AP Mode? 



Not necessarily.  My RBR50 is in router mode and the option to mirror WAN to Port 1 is clearly available.

 

There have been a number of these posts about ISP connection dropping regularly, and in several cases they match exactly with the expiration of the DHCP lease.  The way DHCP is supposed to work is the device will request to renew the lease when about half of the time remains.  The device will continue to request until the time expires, when it will stop using the IP and begin the discover process again.  This is described in the Wikipedia article under "Reliability". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_Host_Configuration_Protocol 

 

DHCP packets are UDP, which does not have the same acknowledgement protocol as TCP.

 

A trace of the WAN port would show the exchange between the Orbi and ISP.  i.e. did the Orbi actually send the request?  Did the ISP answer?  Did the Orbi eventually "give up"?

 

My DHCP lease from Spectrum is for 24 hours (and it always gets renewed).  If this were happening to me, I would set up a Wireshark capture of all WAN traffic and capture 24 hours (Yuck).  There was one post where the DHCP lease was something like one hour, and the ISP said, "Yep.  That's the way we do it."  That would require a lot less traffic to document what is going on.

Message 4 of 69
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily

I know the feature is available, however for most configurations in router mode, Mirror WAN to LAN shouldn't be needed or used when using the RBR in router mode with a ISP modem in front of it. A WAN LAN capture in the debug logs also doesn't need this feature to be enabled.

Message 5 of 69
Retired_Member
Not applicable

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily

Save yourself some time.   Your problem is with V2.5.0.38.   Do a search and you’ll see lots of others with the same problem. 

 

Get rid of it.  

Message 6 of 69
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily


@FURRYe38 wrote:

A WAN LAN capture in the debug logs also doesn't need this feature to be enabled.


This is true.  I have a couple of reasons to support using the WAN capture via Port 1:

  • We know the Orbi log file is cleared when the Orbi reboots.  I do not know what happens to the debug file when the Orbi reboots.  Does it stay?  Does it get overridden by the new debug file?  I have no knowledge one way or the other.  What I DO know is that once packets leave Port 1 and are captured, nothing that happens to the Orbi will erase them.
  • It may take hours (or days?) to capture one of the "disconnects".  Orbi has a limited amount of storage space available, whereas an external computer can capture gigabytes.  PLUS, if a person runs something like Wireshark to capture packets, Wireshark can capture only UDP packets.  That eliminates 99% of the WAN traffic.  (Hmmm. I have a Raspberry Pi that isn't doing anything right now. Maybe I can run an experiment myself.)

This must be a very frustrating experience.  I am so happy it does not happen to me.  Although it has come up before, I do not remember if the problem got resolved or not.

Message 7 of 69
sAmiZZle
Tutor

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily

Hi and thanks for the reply. I wasn't aware that this firmware wasn't rated highly. But, funny thing is immediately after posting this issue, I was searching the RBK50 Support Page and noticed that the most recent firmwares listed only start with 2.3.x.xx. I am on 2.5.x.xx!. So I found this very surpirising that they don't list any of the 2.5.0.xx versions within their firmware downloads section. Also, I had checked for updates to firmware via the admin console for the Orbi and it told me I was up to date, but the same page above has a "Top Support Article" link to a 2.5.0.40 Hot Fix. So, I figured it couldn't hurt and I downloaded and installed this version. I did a full reset on both the satellite and the router (just for what it was worth). To be honest, I'm not hopeful this will fix anything as the release notes only mention it "Updates the https certificate."

 

With regard to the way to collect logs correctly are you able to explain more about what I need to do to collect these even after the router reboots? I downloaded Wireshark, so is it just a matter of leaving that running on my PC connected to LAN Port 1? Then what do I need to do to see the relevant logs when the issue recurs?

 

Appreciate your assistance. Thanks.

Message 8 of 69
sAmiZZle
Tutor

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily

Hmmm... I'd happily rollback to a more stable version, but my Orbi was never stable since I got it. But, tbh I can't remember what version firmware I was on when I got it, because it updated automatically when I did the first setup in Aug 2019. I've never had stability across any version of firmware that I've been on unfortunately. Perhaps I will try doing a manuall rollback to the stable firmware mentioned above if I still have issues, just to rule out that being the problem.

Message 9 of 69
sAmiZZle
Tutor

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily

ISP modem is a Telstra Gateway Max, which I believe are made by Netgear as well. I don't have the model number on me, but it worked fine in bridged mode with my Nighthawk R7000.

 

The Orbi is in Router mode and I've tried 2 positions with the satellite, Started at about 8metres away from the router. Now at about 15 metres away. backhaul still says I have a "Good" connection between the two.

Message 10 of 69
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily


@sAmiZZle wrote:

With regard to the way to collect logs correctly are you able to explain more about what I need to do to collect these even after the router reboots? I downloaded Wireshark, so is it just a matter of leaving that running on my PC connected to LAN Port 1? Then what do I need to do to see the relevant logs when the issue recurs?


This is a "work in progress" for me.  I changed my Orbi cables around to free up Port 1 and connected it to a Raspberry Pi. (I think I could have just wired my PC to Port 1 and run Wireshark on it.  Oh, well.)  Then, I went to the Orbi "debug" page http://<ip of Orbi>/debug.htm and checked the box "Wan Port Mirror to LAN Port 1".  I opened Wireshark and told it to monitor the ethernet port and use this Capture Filter:

 

udp port 67 or 68

 

DHCP is UDP packets where port 67 is the DHCP server and port 68 is the DHCP client.  So far, it is collecting every DHCP packet that appears on Port 1.  (And nothing else.  I have memory for days and days at this rate.)  My DHCP lease is for one day and has 22 hours to run.  So, I expect to see packets from Orbi to my ISP in about 10 hours.

 

Will this work?  Will it show anything useful?  I have no idea.

 

My guess is you are frustrated enough to try almost anything.  And, this is "free" (in a sense).  I will check back in tomorrow.

Message 11 of 69
sAmiZZle
Tutor

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily

Thanks, I'll try to set this up tonight when I get home from work.

 

I also realised I forgot to answer one of your questions in your original post with regards to a particular pattern causing these reboots. Whenever I have noticed it, it is when I am streaming video content. Usually more than one device would be streaming at a time. That's not to say that this is the reason for the reboots though because, just 2 days ago it rebooted quite early in the morning, prior to 6am , whilst I am pretty sure everyone was asleep (although my PC would've still been on but, no one was actively downloading anything).

 

The saga continues...

Message 12 of 69
sAmiZZle
Tutor

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily

Ok as an update, I got home today and was told by my parents that the Orbi rebooted twice in the one day. Absolutely pathetic to be honest...

 

Anyway logs are cleared (as expected), but it is definitely rebooting as I see this as the first line in the logs. 

 

[Initialized, firmware version: V2.5.0.40] Monday, December 02, 2019 16:22:32

I guess I might try rolling back to the "stable" version 2.3.5.30. From the date stamp of the firmware it looks like this was released in July, which was before I got my router in August (i.e. I may have never used this firmware given that the Orbi auto-updated to the most recent firmware immediately). I'm assuming that there was a newer version out in August, so hopefully there is a chance that this could solve my woes... *sigh*

Message 13 of 69
sAmiZZle
Tutor

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily

Ok so, I've loaded V2.3.5.30 onto the satellite and router. Done a full factory reset on both and manually setup my configuration again as per my first post (I purposel didn't load this from a saved config). Only change I've made from my first post is 2.4Ghz is on channel 11 and 5Ghz is on channel 36.

 

I've gone to the debug page and checked WAN Port mirror to LAN port1 (note I have not ticked Enable LAN/WAN Packet Capture).

 

I've started a wireshark capture and filtered as per your advice on "udp port 67 or 68" (see attached screenshot). Crossing my fingers it a) doesn't crash or b) it does crash and we capture something... ANYTHING! 😄

 

Edit: It's been about 10 mins and so far Wireshark hasn't captured anything. Without the filter it was capturing a lot of talk on that Ethernet card though. I guess I'll leave it and check it in the morning.

Message 14 of 69
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily

Let us know what you find out and if the system stops rebooted. I never saw this when I had v38 loaded. Now on v40 and still no reboots. 

 

I would also disable WAN to LAN mirror as it's not needed for normal RBR router operation after your done collecting logs.


@sAmiZZle wrote:

Ok so, I've loaded V2.3.5.30 onto the satellite and router. Done a full factory reset on both and manually setup my configuration again as per my first post (I purposel didn't load this from a saved config). Only change I've made from my first post is 2.4Ghz is on channel 11 and 5Ghz is on channel 36.

 

I've gone to the debug page and checked WAN Port mirror to LAN port1 (note I have not ticked Enable LAN/WAN Packet Capture).

 

I've started a wireshark capture and filtered as per your advice on "udp port 67 or 68" (see attached screenshot). Crossing my fingers it a) doesn't crash or b) it does crash and we capture something... ANYTHING! 😄

 

Edit: It's been about 10 mins and so far Wireshark hasn't captured anything. Without the filter it was capturing a lot of talk on that Ethernet card though. I guess I'll leave it and check it in the morning.


 

Message 15 of 69
Retired_Member
Not applicable

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily


@FURRYe38 wrote:

Let us know what you find out and if the system stops rebooted. I never saw this when I had v38 loaded. Now on v40 and still no reboots. 

 

Have you ever experienced 'bad' firmware with the Orbi?

Message 16 of 69
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily

Just wanted to "report in".  You may have seen my post confessing that I am unable to get the "WAN Mirror to LAN Port 1" to work.  So far, no one has responded that they have actually made it work. So.....

 

I plugged a USB stick into the RBR50 (my Orbi is one of the original models that came with a USB port.)  Set WAN/LAN Capture to record to USB and let it run.  Hours later, my "Connection Status" reported a 1 Day lease with 23+ Hours remaining, which indicates that the Orbi did as expected.  When half of the lease time remained, it requested a new lease and was granted.

 

Turned off the Debug Capture by "Saving Debug File" to my PC.  Noted that the "Capture in progress" message was still on the screen.  Refreshed the screen and the message went away.  Pulled the USB stick and connected it to my PC.  Got the message about "Problems with this USB Drive. Want to fix them?" and said "no".  Opened the USB Capture file and found 1.2GB of LAN traffic and 127MB of WAN traffic.  (We are not "streamers", so 127MB is quite a bit of email and web pages.)

 

Wireshark found the expected packets:

Orbi sent a request directly to the Spectrum DHCP server (not a broadcast).

The DHCP server responded with Acknowledgement, a new 1 day lease (86,400 seconds).

 

So what have I learned?  If things are working as they should, when 1/2 of the DHCP lease expires, the Orbi should send a UDP packet directly to the DHCP server that gave it a lease on an IP address and the DHCP server should send back one UDP packet acknowledging that the Orbi has been given a new lease.  If your "disconnect" seem to happen when DHCP leases are due to expire, I recommending plugging in a USB stick and capturing WAN/LAN traffic until the next disconnect.

 

I can also say there's a lot of DHCP crap flying around Spectrum.  Private addresses (10.0)  Devices that ask over and over again.  Sometimes it's not great to see how sausage is made!

Message 17 of 69
Engrpas
Aspirant

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily

I have no clue where this discussion is going, but my Wi-Fi is rebooting several times a day. I don’t know whether it’s the modem or the Orbi, but the TV’s (running fire sticks) hang up with the spinning ring and if I’m on a Wi-Fi call with my iPhone the call is dropped after a few seconds.
Any suggestions in layman’s language what I can do?
Thanks, Pete
Model: RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 18 of 69
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily

What Firmware is currently loaded?
What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. https://kb.netgear.com/000036466/How-far-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite-from-my-Orbi-router

 

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

 

Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO(MIMO may or maynot be needed) and WMM. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Circle, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).


@Engrpas wrote:
I have no clue where this discussion is going, but my Wi-Fi is rebooting several times a day. I don’t know whether it’s the modem or the Orbi, but the TV’s (running fire sticks) hang up with the spinning ring and if I’m on a Wi-Fi call with my iPhone the call is dropped after a few seconds.
Any suggestions in layman’s language what I can do?
Thanks, Pete

 

Message 19 of 69
sAmiZZle
Tutor

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily

Log in to the router's admin page and go to Administration > Logs. If the line of text at the bottom of the log says it was initialised on the date/time of the issue you had, then the Orbi rebooted and you are another member in the "my Orbi is rebooting" club :).

 

If you're lucky, it may not have rebooted and may have a) just lost internet connection from the modem or b) it may have had a direct issue with its WiFi or b) dropped your devices due to some kind of DHCP issue. If any of those are the case, it "should" have a log entry somewhere in there to that effect.

Message 20 of 69
sAmiZZle
Tutor

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily

Reporting in for today. Orbi hasn't rebooted yet and I have traffic showing up in wireshark (see attached screenshot)! Nothing that seems untoward yet. Will continue to leave it monitoring and will report back tomorrow.

Message 21 of 69
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily

Is Mirror WAN to LAN enabled along with WAN.LAN packet capture? 


@sAmiZZle wrote:

Reporting in for today. Orbi hasn't rebooted yet and I have traffic showing up in wireshark (see attached screenshot)! Nothing that seems untoward yet. Will continue to leave it monitoring and will report back tomorrow.


 

Message 22 of 69
sAmiZZle
Tutor

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily

Hi @FURRYe38 as mentioned in my above post, I've enabled only WAN Port mirror to LAN port1. I have not ticked Enable LAN/WAN Packet Capture.

Message 23 of 69
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily

Nice. So has the daily reboot stopped now? 


@sAmiZZle wrote:

Hi @FURRYe38 as mentioned in my above post, I've enabled only WAN Port mirror to LAN port1. I have not ticked Enable LAN/WAN Packet Capture.


 

Message 24 of 69
sAmiZZle
Tutor

Re: Orbi rebooting itself daily

Hasn't rebbooted since the evening of the 2nd Dec. But it has stayed up for up to 4 or 5 days before rebooting in the past. So, I'm not out of the woods just yet. But, so far it looks promising!

Message 25 of 69
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