RBK23 - Nest Learning Thermostat 3rd gen keeps going offline

[h0va4life]

The orbi system says that my thermostat is connecteced to wifi, but the nest iOS app and browser shows the thermostat as offline.

I have two thermostats. I've had cases when both are showing offline and I had to reset both, and now only one is offline.

[h0va4life · Accepted solution]

I ended up calling customer support and they replaced my devices - took about two replacements before it worked properly. I didn't have a receipt or anything as the nests came with the house, I was just adamant on the phone about this company fixing their issues with their "premium" thermostats that cost multiples more than other thermostats even those with wifi.

[CrimpOn]

Since nobody has responded, here's my "two cents".

I have had an (original) Nest thermostat for 3-4 years.  The question I expected was, "why does the Orbi not show my Nest thermostat on the list of "Attached Devices"?  The answer is that the Orbi only tracks devices that have sent or received packets recently.  When the Nest app is not open, there is no traffic between the Nest and the app, and thus the Nest "disappears".  Connect the app, and it reappears.  I did not expect, "why is my Nest 'offline'?"

Since the Orbi shows the Nest(s) as attached, that indicates to me that they are not only working, but also sending/receiving data, which I infer means that they are "connected" to a Nest app through the "Nest Cloud".  So, my guess is that this question might be answered better in a Nest user forum than in the Orbi forum.

Before "asking Nest", it might be useful to gather some more evidence:  proof that the Nests ARE connected.  You need to know the IP addresses of the Nests.  (I "assigned" an IP address to my Nest so that when I look at the Attached Devices web page I can find it easily.)

Here are the steps:

• Turn on telnet.  Open the Orbi "debug" web page:  http://orbilogin.net/debug.hem
  Check the box "Enable Telnet"
• Use a telnet program to connect to the Orbi router (I use Putty on Windows or Linux.  Windows has a built-in telnet client that can be activated from the Control Panel, "Programs and Features", "Turn Windows Features On or Off".  I think Mac's have telnet, but cannot remember how to access it..
  The key is to have some method to capture the output of the telnet session.
  i.e. telnet <ip of Orbi>
• Log in using the regular credentials ("admin" and the Orbi admin password)
• Enter this telnet command and capture the output:
  cat /proc/net/ip_conntrack
• If you do not have a way to capture output, then enter this command:cat /proc/net/ip_conntrack | grep <IP of Nest>
  example:  cat /proc/net/ip_conntrack | 192.168.1.10
  Since you are not "capturing", write down the IP addresses and information that show up.
  Repeat for the other Nest.
• Disconnect from the Orbi and examine the capture.
  Search for the IP address of the two Nest thermostats.
  For example, my Nest shows up like this:
  tcp 6 7364 ESTABLISHED src=192.168.1.10 dst=35.171.224.183 sport=48483 dport=9543 packets=41 bytes=4996 src=35.171.224.183 dst=172.249.115.199 sport=9543 dport=48483 packets=56 bytes=8117 [ASSURED] mark=0 [NATed] use=2
• Notice that Orbi claims my Nest at 192.168.1.10 is connected to 36.171.224.183.  My Nest has sent 41 packets for a total of 4996 bytes.  The other end has sent 56 packets for a total of 8117 bytes.  This IP address is part of Amazon AWS (Cloud).
• So now I have "proof" that (1) my Nest is connected to my router, and (2) my Nest is connected to the "Nest Cloud" and sending/receiving data.  If the Nest app says my Nest is "offline", the problem is not something I can fix by tinkering with my router.

This may be more than you want to mess with.  Sorry, it's all I can think of.

[h0va4life]

@CrimpOn, thank you for the response. I have first posted this question on the nest forums and really haven't gotten much feedback besides folks also mentioning that they've had this issue too. Nest customer support best solution, which I think is complete BS, came down to me trying out different 5ghz wifi signals, they believe that maybe a few of the orbi channels are losing packets.

Thank you for sharing regarding the packets, I will look at that. Hopefully I can get some more responses, nest thermostats are pretty popular and so are the orbi systems, so I'm sure there are more owners of both systems who are on this forum.

[CrimpOn]

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@h0va4life wrote:

Nest customer support best solution, which I think is complete BS, came down to me trying out different 5ghz wifi signals, they believe that maybe a few of the orbi channels are losing packets.

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I agree that looking for different 5G channels sounds like BS.  For one thing, the connection MY Nest opens with the "Nest Cloud" is a TCP connection (not UDP).  TCP protocol has error correction.  If a packet is sent and never arrives ("dropped"), then it gets retransmitted.  UDP packets are simply "sent" and if the sender gets no response, it usually tries again.  Modern networks are so reliable that many of the things we rely on are sent using UDP, such as DHCP, DNS, NTP (Network Time).

It might be worth documenting: is this Nest a "Prior to Google taking over Nest", or is this Nest a "Google all the way Nest"?  As  a Nest owner, I have been happy to have the thing "just work" and have no interest in having my home integrated into the Google Ecosystem.  When the day comes that Google knows what temperature my house is and starts showing ads for things related to temperature, I will probably go to Home Depot and buy "anything else".

[h0va4life]

@CrimpOn, I unfortunately have an issue that I give these companies too much trust, so I always update everything when I ask. With that being said, I believe that the device was made after the google takeover, but I did have a nest account but now (to my dismay) has been transferred to google.

I know for certain, per multiple convos with the nest support, that the auto home/away feat gets disable after migrating the account over to google, which again is total BS. So basically the builtin nest sense you pay more than the E version is useless. I don't use phone location to determine if I am home or not, I only liked using the built-in motion sensors.

Losing the nest sense sensor and now the constant connection issues have me just totally fed up with this.

[CrimpOn]

I have (so far), declined every offer to migrate.  Eventually, they will simply abandon the "old Nest" service, and I will be faced with a decision.  I wonder how the "Google Nest" handlesgeolocation with multiple cell phones. (Mom, Dad, three teenagers, one houskeeper)?

[FURRYe38]

What Firmware is currently loaded?
What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. https://kb.netgear.com/000036466/How-far-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite-from-my-Orbi-router

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO(MIMO may or maynot be needed) and WMM. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Circle, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).

I have both 1st and 3rd gen NEST controllers and haven't had a problem with Orbi. My Orbi AX had an issue with my 3rd gen NEST but NG fixed that. I use the settings from above as well. Using v2.5.1.8 FW. 

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@h0va4life wrote:

The orbi system says that my thermostat is connecteced to wifi, but the nest iOS app and browser shows the thermostat as offline.

I have two thermostats. I've had cases when both are showing offline and I had to reset both, and now only one is offline.

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[TrueNet]

I have tge exact same problem. Even before moving to Netgear's RBK853 I already had problems. Problems started once Nest got incorporated on the Google ecosystem. Not sure if it had something to do, but now 2 of my 3 thermostats are most of the time offline and they blame the Wifi. I checked the packet losses and it shows 63% loss, even when the router is 3 feet away.

[FURRYe38]

What FW version do you have loaded? 

I have a 1st and 3rd gen Thernostats and there solid connected to my RBK50. 

New FW for the 8 series Orbi seems to be working well now too for Nest. 

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@TrueNet wrote:

I have tge exact same problem. Even before moving to Netgear's RBK853 I already had problems. Problems started once Nest got incorporated on the Google ecosystem. Not sure if it had something to do, but now 2 of my 3 thermostats are most of the time offline and they blame the Wifi. I checked the packet losses and it shows 63% loss, even when the router is 3 feet away.

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[mgdurand1]

Same issue.  Have 4 Nest 3rd Gen and Orbi WiFi 6 system.  at least once a day they start going offline.  Sometimes one ... sometimes three.  After 15-20 minutes that start coming back on.  Extremely strong signals throughout the house.  Not an earthshattering fail, but for the cost of the equipment sure would like to eliminate these results.  

[Mikey94025]

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@mgdurand1 wrote:

Same issue.  Have 4 Nest 3rd Gen and Orbi WiFi 6 system.  at least once a day they start going offline.  Sometimes one ... sometimes three.  After 15-20 minutes that start coming back on.  Extremely strong signals throughout the house.  Not an earthshattering fail, but for the cost of the equipment sure would like to eliminate these results.  

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Try setting your CTS/RTS Threshold to 2347 and see if this improves your Nest thermostat connectivity:

1. Go to the web admin portal at http://orbilogin.com/
2. Click to the Advanced tab, Advanced left menu, Wireless Settings
3. Set CTS/RTS Threshold to 2347 for both 2.4hz and 5Ghz networks
4. Press Apply

Another trick is to connect your Nest thermostat to your Orbi's guest wireless network instead of the primary network - That works for some Nest owners: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-WiFi-6-AX-and-WiFi-6E-AXE/Nest-Thermostat-Batteries-LOW-on-a-n...

[mgdurand1]

Thanks for the quick reply and the hints.  Both 2.4 and 5 were set to 64 for the CTS/RTS Threshold settings.  Bumped them both up and will see how things go over the next few days.  Again, many thanks!

[h0va4life · Accepted solution]

I ended up calling customer support and they replaced my devices - took about two replacements before it worked properly. I didn't have a receipt or anything as the nests came with the house, I was just adamant on the phone about this company fixing their issues with their "premium" thermostats that cost multiples more than other thermostats even those with wifi.

[mgdurand1]

Mine are about 6 years old so would not expect them to replace them.  Not inclined to replace them, however.  I can deal with the periodic losing conneciton.  Shame, though.  Otherwise a great device.

[mgdurand1]

Well ... no joy.  Had my first disconnect last night.  Will wait a few days to see frequency.  Will then try the guest network solution.

[h0va4life]

They were really lenient with me - they send the devices before you send yours in as well. I actually never return led the defective ones, as I wasn't going to use any more of my resources on the issue. I am unsure when the devices were originally purchased either but I'm positive it was at least a yr old. There is nothing crazy technically about a thermostat in which it should fail in less than 10 years.