RBR50 as AP with Ethernet Backhaul: Same switch for both WAN and LAN ports

[starrs-ridge]

I am thinking of the following configuration for wired Ethernet backhaul, but I am unsure if it will work.

The RBR50 is already set to AP mode, and the satellites are in wireless backhaul currently.

There is one satellite that is too far to use the 5ghz backhaul channel. But, it is adjacent to an ethernet switch that is attached to the main network, including the switch that the RBR50 is currently plugged into. This second switch where the RBR50 router gets its Internet connection into the yellow WAN port.

Current firmware is 2.5.1.8 for router and satellites.

The first question is, does the WAN connection double as the backhaul to the satellites? I believe that the answer to that is, no. Correct? Or has the latest firmware solved that one?

If not, this leads to the configuration question: can the ethernet backhaul connection (from one of the LAN ports on the RBR50) be plugged into the exact same ethernet switch where the WAN (yellow) port is alreadt plugged in? Or would that create a conflict between the WAN and LAN connections, as they would be sharing the same switch? Note: it is not an option to connect the yellow WAN port directly to the main cable modem router which is providing the Internet connection to the main network. The Orbi AC3000 network is a sub-network behind the main network, and therefore, I cannot insert the RBR50 between the cable modem and the rest of the network.

I have attached an illustration of what the proposed config would look like. Please let me know if this is simply not possible. (The illustration is one which I modified from earlier posts about ethernet backhaul. It only shows one switch, not two, but from a logical standpoint, the network connection would essentially be the same, since the switches are both at the same level in the network).

*The switches on both ends (satellite and router) are Araknis Networks 310 Series L2 Managed Gigabit Switches.

[FURRYe38 · Accepted solution]

No, that configuration will not work and is not needed. When in AP mode the WAN port on the RBR acts like a LAN port and is on the LAN side of the network, no longer on the WAN side of the network when in router mode. LAN is bi-directional. 

You can daisy chain switches and place them where needed to get a ethernet connection out to the farthest RBS. I have 4 switches in between my RBR and RBS currently using v2.5.1.8. Zero issues. 

If you use managed switches, be sure that all IGMP protocols on these switches are disabled. Also disable any green ethernet features as well. These are known to cause problems in between RBR and RBS. Non managed, non green ethernet switches are preferred. 

[FURRYe38 · Accepted solution]

No, that configuration will not work and is not needed. When in AP mode the WAN port on the RBR acts like a LAN port and is on the LAN side of the network, no longer on the WAN side of the network when in router mode. LAN is bi-directional. 

You can daisy chain switches and place them where needed to get a ethernet connection out to the farthest RBS. I have 4 switches in between my RBR and RBS currently using v2.5.1.8. Zero issues. 

If you use managed switches, be sure that all IGMP protocols on these switches are disabled. Also disable any green ethernet features as well. These are known to cause problems in between RBR and RBS. Non managed, non green ethernet switches are preferred. 

[Retired_Member]

here's your problem:  2.5.1.8 

[starrs-ridge]

Thanks, but could you please elaborate on what the issue is with firmware 2.5.1.8 in regards to this configuration?

[Retired_Member]

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@starrs-ridge wrote:
Thanks, but could you please elaborate on what the issue is with firmware 2.5.1.8 in regards to this configuration?

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all I can tell if you do a search...several folks report issues.  this appears to be a pattern with NG.

your best bet is to revert back and once you get stable...leave your system alone.  NG will push auto updates IF required.

[FURRYe38]

Would be no reason to revert any FW. This isn't a FW issue. Just a ethernet configuration. 

[Retired_Member]

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@FURRYe38 wrote:

Would be no reason to revert any FW. This isn't a FW issue. Just a ethernet configuration. 

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you don't know that

[Retired_Member]

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@starrs-ridge wrote:

I am thinking of the following configuration for wired Ethernet backhaul, but I am unsure if it will work.

The RBR50 is already set to AP mode, and the satellites are in wireless backhaul currently.

There is one satellite that is too far to use the 5ghz backhaul channel. But, it is adjacent to an ethernet switch that is attached to the main network, including the switch that the RBR50 is currently plugged into. This second switch where the RBR50 router gets its Internet connection into the yellow WAN port.

Current firmware is 2.5.1.8 for router and satellites.

The first question is, does the WAN connection double as the backhaul to the satellites? I believe that the answer to that is, no. Correct? Or has the latest firmware solved that one?

If not, this leads to the configuration question: can the ethernet backhaul connection (from one of the LAN ports on the RBR50) be plugged into the exact same ethernet switch where the WAN (yellow) port is alreadt plugged in? Or would that create a conflict between the WAN and LAN connections, as they would be sharing the same switch? Note: it is not an option to connect the yellow WAN port directly to the main cable modem router which is providing the Internet connection to the main network. The Orbi AC3000 network is a sub-network behind the main network, and therefore, I cannot insert the RBR50 between the cable modem and the rest of the network.

I have attached an illustration of what the proposed config would look like. Please let me know if this is simply not possible. (The illustration is one which I modified from earlier posts about ethernet backhaul. It only shows one switch, not two, but from a logical standpoint, the network connection would essentially be the same, since the switches are both at the same level in the network).

*The switches on both ends (satellite and router) are Araknis Networks 310 Series L2 Managed Gigabit Switches.

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as some want you to believe...the FW is fine.  Your decision.  If you feel good with the FW, then press on with the dozens of questions and hopefully at the end of the day you'll find the truth.

[starrs-ridge]

I wanted to add that this system currently has 4 RBS50 satellites, with Daisy Chain topology turned on.

The other item to note is that I have set the 5ghz backhaul channel to be fixed at Channel 108, based on the fact that there are several competing 5ghz signals at the 149 + range.

I MIGHT be able to switch off Daisy Chain and go to Star, because if I can get this one remote satellite to work via Ethernet backhaul, the other 3 satellites may be close enough to communicate with the Router via the 5ghz channel.

Would switching to Star help the config in any way? With 4 satellites, I see constant re-mapping occurring between the Router and the Satellites.

Thanks.

[FURRYe38]

For ethernet backhaul, Daisy Chain really should be disabled. Thats meant for wireless connected RBS to piggy back of one another out in a line from the RBR. Hiaving DC on may see odd behaviors...You might try turning OFF all RBS accept for 1 then connect it up, then start adding RBS 1 at a time to see how it all behaves. 

[starrs-ridge]

Yep. DC can definitely cause issues. The only reason that I have it on is for that one satellite in question. It is about 80' from the next closest satellite, and over 100' from the router - i had wanted it to connect via DC to the closer satellite, but it was only pullng the 2.4ghz backhaul, which was too slow for my client. So, it sounds like using the switches for E-backhaul and switching to Star topology will be a better option.

Tomorrow is the day we find out -- thanks for the input!

[FURRYe38]

[Retired_Member]

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@starrs-ridge wrote:

Tomorrow is the day we find out -- thanks for the input!

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[starrs-ridge]

Update: the Ethernet backhaul over the Araknis network was a success.
The Config is still Daisy Chain, but I may change that today. 

Problem now is that both the Android Orbi App and the Orbilogin page shows all satellites as offline, when in fact I know that they are all online, including the one hard-wire satellite. I am going to post separately about that, but I will consider this post to be closes.

Thanks for all the help!

PS - how do you post screenshots in-line? Please PM me with that answer, much appreciated.

[FURRYe38]

Glad it seems to be working. Might give the orbi app some time. Log out and log back in. Odd issues with that app sometimes. 

If the RBRs status page reports RBS online and the orbi app doesn't, Please post about this in the Orbi app forum:
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-App/bd-p/en-home-orbi-app

Daisy Chain might effect what the app sees as well. 

Please mark this thread as solved so others will know. 

You may see a Photos icon on the text editor tool bar on you post. Select that and upload picture files or just add them as an attachment by selecting Choose File radio button under the text editor window. When you upload a picture using the Photo button, that needs a forum moderator to approve the picture so dispaly of the picture doesn't get seen in a quick manor. 

Enjoy. 

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@starrs-ridge wrote:

Update: the Ethernet backhaul over the Araknis network was a success.
The Config is still Daisy Chain, but I may change that today. 

Problem now is that both the Android Orbi App and the Orbilogin page shows all satellites as offline, when in fact I know that they are all online, including the one hard-wire satellite. I am going to post separately about that, but I will consider this post to be closes.

Thanks for all the help!

PS - how do you post screenshots in-line? Please PM me with that answer, much appreciated.

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