Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi

Dynamiteboy · ‎2017-02-16

None of those are in the home, its just so immediate the drops when Sonos is playing it is clear the interference of sorts is coming from Sonos.

Dynamiteboy · ‎2017-02-19

Baisc Results of what happened with my testing yesterday.

-Change Channels again (1,6,11)
- Still experiencing Speed Drops
-Changed Orbi Channel width to not support 40/20 simultaneously (Can't remember exact setting name)
- Still experiencing Speed Drops

-Test wired connection speed to Router while playing music
- No issues
-Test wired connection speed to satellite while playing music
- No issues
-Disabling 2.4 ghz band completely and test
- Still Experiencing Speed Drops, seemed to reduce interference though Enabled saw speeds drop to 100 kpbs while playing Sonos.
-Disable 5.8 ghz completely and test
- Not relevant most likely
-Wire in as Many Sonos devices as possible
- Reduced interference but still only pulling 50 max with Sonos playing all day.

Not sure what Orbi and Sonos have against eachother, but because I cannot tweak settings on the backhaul between the 2 of them regardless of whether this is the issue I have kind of given up on Orbi. If I knew the house had wired drops, Orbi would not have been my first choice anyways, so now onto Google Wifi, and then to Unifi for some wired backhaul AP's.

Have decided to give Google Wifi 3 pack a try. One question, there is an area in the home (the kitchen/dining room area) that just gets poor coverage in general, but there is not a single network drop there. Can I do a wired backhaul for 2 of the google wifi points and one of them be wireless mesh?

dleute · ‎2017-02-19

Yes you can mix and match wired and wireless. Just remember performance on that unit will be slower than the other two.

This does sound like wifi interference to me. If so, then the same thing will likely happen on google wifi. Should be interesting to see the results.

--Derrek

Dynamiteboy · ‎2017-02-19

@dleute wrote:
Yes you can mix and match wired and wireless. Just remember performance on that unit will be slower than the other two.

This does sound like wifi interference to me. If so, then the same thing will likely happen on google wifi. Should be interesting to see the results.

--Derrek

I agree that is should by Wi-fi interference, but for that reason I am confused, as almost all Wifi interference should be able to be mitigated by changing channels and adjusting frequencies. Using a Wifi Scanner no other networks were on the Orbi or the Sonos channels. I just have a feeling that a different Wi-fi system like google will work. I won't know why it works, but I just want it to work at this point. Orbi and Sonos are both supposed to be plug and play and have not been thus far. I should not have to do this level of troubleshooting for either product and for that reason there is still an issue that either Sonos or Orbi needs to address, just not sure what that is.

If my Wifi tops out at 120mb/s, I think with 2 wired points and a wireless one in between with the sonos bridge plugged into one of them I have hopes that this will resolve my issues with speed drops.

A couple more questions:

Do you reccommend an Onhub as one of the mesh points? If so which point? the main one? I have heard people getting better coverage with these (Obviously a bigger unit than google wifi)
Would you reccommend taking the bridge out of the picture completely and just wiring in a Sonos Connect amp? This will still leave the Sonosnet intact I beleive.

dleute · ‎2017-02-19

I would personally avoid onhub for the time being. For one thing, there are 2 of them made by different manufacturers. For another, they are not entirely google controlled. In this case, I would say simplicity is better and stick with just google wifi units unless there is an issue that onhub can solve. Technically, onhubs may have better antennae arrangements, but that should only make a difference in the most extreme cases. Well placed google wifi units should just work.

It really shouldn't matter if you use a bridge or a connect. Like, really not at all. The only reason this would matter is if one of them was dysfunctional, then the other would work better. As I have only used a connect as my wired Sonos, I really can't speak to anything else. It seems to work well for me plugged into orbi. (They are less than an inch apart).

My advice is to start simple.

Dumb question of the day: Do you live near a police station, fire station, hospital or other public service?

--Derrek

Dynamiteboy · ‎2017-02-28

After quite a few hours I was able to setup Google Wifi properly.

The biggest issue with it I encountered was the fact that each node needed to be wirelessly added to the mesh before they were wired in at a much farther away point across the house. This brought a lot of confusion and is a dumb requirement for setup. Unless these things first saw the main unit wirelessly, they could not be added to the mesh properly

Now I have 2 nodes, the bedrooms and living room wired into drops in the house. An Onhub upstairs as the main unit, and then the kitchen node which is closest to the upstairs Onhub is wireless. After much tinkering they are working all as they should be, showing up correctly in the app. A lot of trial an error was required, resetting them to factory default many times as a either the wired nodes or the wireless one would not show up depending on the order I set them up.

Finally the correct order was:

Onhub Main unit
Wireless Kitchen Unit
2 Wired nodes

Sonos is only exeperiencing slight drops when playing music, even in the dead zone kitchen. Usally pulling the full 100-120mbs.

I am baffled why this is working and Orbi did not, but I guess it doesn't matter. Obiviously the wired nodes help remove interference on the backend, but I thought the interference was on the front end, because of my wired speed test to the Satelite Orbi which had no issues (backend test).

Oh well....

Masterbert · ‎2017-03-01

having significant drop outs of sonos since last FW update - see also my new thread as i assume, that its FW 1.5.0.12 related instead of an overall issue with ORBI & SONOS in gerneral

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/SONOS-amp-ORBI-FW-V1-5-0-12-not-working-anymore/m-p/1238862#U1...

DarrenM · ‎2017-04-17

Hello Everyone

Is anyone still having sonos issues on the latest firmware 1.8.0.6? if so let me know so we can work with you on these issues.

DarrenM

dleute · ‎2017-04-17

I have not been using Sonos much. I had a weird failure where some things just don't connect. My orbi network just wouldn't allow any devices on for a bit. Came back on it's own.

Orbi has been pretty solid for me. When I have had issues, I haven't been able to trace them back to orbi. (Apple products have plenty of issues without outside stuff messing them up)

--Derrek

Dynamiteboy · ‎2017-04-17

Was something fixed with the latest update?

dleute · ‎2017-04-17

I spoke to soon. Currently sonos can't get through a whole song without failing.

rookie8155 · ‎2017-04-17

Fortunately I never had any issues with Sonos speakers. But I am using Sonos bridge to connect to my wifi network.

rivets · ‎2017-04-22

Recently installed on Orbi. iPads and iPhones drop out repeatedly and drain batteries. But Sonos seemed to be working fine, however the Orbi lost the connection to the outside world and I had to reboot it to get it to reconnect and the Sonos did not reconnect apart from the one wired to the router. Since then one room disappeared from the app but kept playing, so something us not right somewhere.

st_shaw · ‎2017-04-22

You need to set Sonos and Orbi to use non-overlapping channels in the 2.4 GHz band. My Orbi always uses a 40 MHz channel width, so I set Orbi on channel 1 and Sonos on channel 11. Sonos channel settings are in the controller under Settings, Advanced Settings, SonosNet Channel.

CandaceVan · ‎2017-05-27

I run my Sonos on its own network. My problem is connecting to it via my iOS device (iPhone 6 Plus). Sometimes I can connect to the Sonos controller, and sometimes I cannot. Problem seems to be intermittent. At the same time that my Mac Mini can reliably access Sonos via my Orbi Wifi network, sitting next to it, my iPhone cannot. Running OS X 10.12.5. iOS v. 10.3.2. Running Sonos Controller for Mac v.7.2.

Antipodeansam7 · ‎2017-06-06

Hey guys, so similar issue that I assume is related. Have latest firmware on my Orbi and satellite, everything runs great at about 180mps throughout my house. Sonos never drops out, except; whenever I play music using my surround sound setup (may also happen with tv sound but don't notice) the stereo pair drop out briefly every couple of minutes and then come back in, however playbar continues to play.

Currently I have bridge wired into my router, Orbi on channel 1 for 2.4 and sonos on 11. Previously I had one of the stereo pair plugged into satellite as they are right next to each other instead of using the bridge but this was as bad if not worse.

So any ideas what the issue may be? Would the satellite being next door to one of the stereo pair be an issue? (Haven't moved as have number of things on that shelf plugged into it).

MachineLearner · ‎2017-06-06

We have 4 Sonos units currently connected to our Orbi system and everything is working great. Please note, however, that I use Cat 6 ethernet connections to the Sonos units, always have, just to eliminate any of the vagaries associated with wifi. I have not tested them in wifi mode. I connected a switch to one of the ethernet LAN ports on the Orbi router, and have cat6 runs to the Sonos units. Same for other devices in home theater.

We are getting great wifi coverage all over 3,000 sqaure feet on 2 levels with the 2 unit RBK50 (router at one end of first floor, satellite near middle of 2nd floor), and pretty good coverage in our basement as well.

Please note some have had difficulties with Apple and Nest products. We have Apple laptops connected wirelessly with no issues, but we keep OS X at current version, and there have been wifi issues with older versions of OS X with non-Airport routers. Nest product forums show lots of wifi issues with many routers, especially older Nest products. The more IoT products you have connected via wifi, the more research you will want to do about compatibility issues.

Also, from what I can tell, some of the rants about issues with Orbi (on other discussions on forum) come from people who have connected the Orbi router to a cable co provided router. Why they want to keep the cable co router I don't know, but I suspect many of these problems could be avoided by replacing the cable co modem/router combo with a simple cable modem, and using the Orbi as the router, as intended. We are using an Arris SB 6190 as our cable modem, and it has been a champ.

FYI, the Orbi system is replacing an Apple Airport Extreme router on first floor, which was connected via Cat 5 ethernet to a 2nd Apple Airport Extreme router (in "roaming mode" as recommended by Apple) on the 2nd floor. This combo gave us excellent coverage on first floor, but weak wifi in a remote home office on 2nd floor. The Orbi system gives us great wifi all over, despite the current lack of ethernet-connected backhaul for the satellite. The dedicated backhaul channel seems to work very well for us. We usuallly get close to our service level of 150mbs all over the house via wifi.

MachineLearner · ‎2017-06-06

I believe Sonos recommends trying to keep some distance between wifi-connected Sonos units and the WAP to which they are connected.

st_shaw · ‎2017-06-06

@Antipodeansam7 wrote:

So any ideas what the issue may be? Would the satellite being next door to one of the stereo pair be an issue? (Haven't moved as have number of things on that shelf plugged into it).

Yes, it could be an issue. Sonos uses 5 GHz for stereo pairing and Orbi uses 5 GHz for the backhaul. I have seen Sonos interfere with the backhaul and have measured reduce throughput. Try moving the Satelitte farther away from the Sonos stereo pair.

dleute · ‎2017-06-06

I can tell you that Sonos was not working well for a while with it's internal sonosnet. It would drop several times a song. I just stopped using it for a few weeks. Eventually I switched it to use the Orbi network and things got much much better. I'm not sure how a stereo pair or surround sound would interact with that.

st_shaw · ‎2017-06-06

@dleute wrote:
I can tell you that Sonos was not working well for a while with it's internal sonosnet. It would drop several times a song. I just stopped using it for a few weeks. Eventually I switched it to use the Orbi network and things got much much better. I'm not sure how a stereo pair or surround sound would interact with that.

I have Sonos working fine on Sonosnet (this uses the 2.4 GHz band). I have Sonos set to use channel 11 and Orbi set to use channel 1. There should be no overlap this way.

The 5 GHz band is different. There is no ability to adjust the channels used by the Orbi backhaul or the Sonos 5 GHz inter-speaker links. Despite that, things work fine for me, as long as Sonos and Orbi aren't sitting right next to each other.

I've never tried running Sonos over WiFi.

dleute · ‎2017-06-06

That's how it was setup. It should work better on sonosnet, but it doesn't currently. I put the system on orbi wifi and it works for hours at a time without issues.

Does stereo still use 5ghz internally even when the Sonos main network is wifi not sonosnet? I don't have two play:1's to try it.

st_shaw · ‎2017-06-06

@dleute wrote:

Does stereo still use 5ghz internally even when the Sonos main network is wifi not sonosnet? I don't have two play:1's to try it.

I'm not sure. I know the Sonos 5 GHz links are used for surround sound setups. I'm not sure if it's used for stereo pairs or not.

As I understand it, the purpose of the Sonos 5 GHz link is to minimize latency seen on the 2.4 GHz band. As I understand it, a Sonos WiFi setup connects to your AP using 2.4 GHz channels only and 5 GHz WiFi connections are not supported.

So, it would stand to reason that if you have a surround setup, then Sonos would still need to use the dedicated 5 GHz inter-speaker links to avoid latency issues.

Masterbert · ‎2017-07-03

if someone is doing some kind of root cause analysis

my working setup:

avm fritzbox acting as modem & dhcp (connected to VDSL line)

orbi connected to avm fritzbox

orbi set to AP mode

sonos bridge v1 connected via ethernet to avm fritzbox

causing issues setup:
avm fritztbox action as modem(connected to VDSL line)

orbi connected to avm fritzbox

orbi set to router mode

sonos bridge v1 connected via ethernet to Orbi

following settings apply for both

avm - WLAN disabled

Orbi 2,4ghz set to channel 11

Sonos Mesh WLAN set to channel 1

with my non working setup the sonos gear is stopping and dropping zones sometimes, not always , but way too often - also the overall performance is unstable and the internet connection seems to be interupted often. the SONOS CC team told me that my bridge is floated with multicast traffic at same days.