v2.5.0.38 undoes SSD split - is there a fix?

[FURRYe38]

Dear @Xiscake 

Separation of the SSID on Orbi IS and WAS never supported. Orbi needs to work in the specified and intended design set forth by NG. Orbi works with a signal SSID broadcast for most users. For users having issues with 2.4Ghz only IoT devices, please review the afore mentioned post on how to get these devices connected to Orbi. This method is confirmed and does work. This eliminates the use or need of using any telnet commands to separate the SSID which will cause problems for users. 

Good Luck. 

[Xiscake]

It was not supported, but it was doable with a little bit of time & knowledge.

Now its blocked.

I dont have an issue with IoT. I want control over what connects to which frequency. I have an issue with devices deciding to jump from one wifi to the other, losing conectivity temporarily. I have an issue with such a simple feature not being available after so long.

[FURRYe38]

Well something that NG controls. If you want that kind of control back then you'll have to revert back to what was working before and probably leave it that way if you want that kind of unsupported configuration. 

I presume NG found too many issues with separation of SSIDs and getting support calls for something they didn't intend on design or supporting it in the first place, so they closed the door. Orbi is meant for automatic connections with devices with little user intervention during setup or normal operation. Having granular advanced controls wasn't in the design and is mostly simplified for most home users. Orbi maybe something that may not be well suited for you if you want or have a need to have more advanced wifi controls. You may want to get into something more advanced. ASUS I believe has more advanced controls and also has MESH support. 

Good Luck. 

[michaelkenward]

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@jasonrdunn wrote:

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@michaelkenward wrote:
There is one other option, forget about the Orbi. Go to the bottom of the garden (backyard), with luck the wifi client won't be able to connect to 5 GHz. Too far away. See if you can set up the IoT thing.

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Tried that the first month I got my Orbi, and it didn't work because the phone has to be within range of the IoT device.

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Ouch. Well, as you agree, worth a try.

My guess is that these things will settle down and in a few years makers of IoT device and network equipment will have arrived at a sane way of doing this stuff.

At the moment too many people are left screaming at the "bleading edge".

[michaelkenward]

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@FURRYe38 wrote:

I can confirm that this method does work with one additional step

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Thanks for that. The "give it time to forget" step that you added makes sense.

At least, you didn't have to reboot the whole network to get the Orbi to behave too!

Enjoy those IoT toys. I just have Arlo cameras, and they will happily set up with 5 GHz wifi clients, even though the cameras just do 2.4 GHz.

[jasonrdunn]

@FURRYe38 wrote:

I can confirm that this method does work with one additional step

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Well I'll be - I'll happily eat my own words here, it does work after all - I just didn't wait a few minutes before trying to re-join the network. Thanks all for suggesting this option, it's entirely reasonable and works well enough for my needs.

[FURRYe38]

And thank you for providing the steps. Just followed them and added what I thought might be additional stepes needed. Glad this works. I knew it would. Thought I thought maybe there was a problem in FW maybe. Glad there wasn't. 

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@michaelkenward wrote:

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@FURRYe38 wrote:

I can confirm that this method does work with one additional step

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Thanks for that. The "give it time to forget" step that you added makes sense.

At least, you didn't have to reboot the whole network to get the Orbi to behave too!

Enjoy those IoT toys. I just have Arlo cameras, and they will happily set up with 5 GHz wifi clients, even though the cameras just do 2.4 GHz.

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[FURRYe38]

Glad that it worked for you. I presume there was just one step missing. I wanted to confirm this as well. I had seen others mentioned it worked for them thought I hadn't really tried it. 

Please mark your thread and solved so other will know. 

Enjoy. 

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@jasonrdunn wrote:

@FURRYe38 wrote:

I can confirm that this method does work with one additional step

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Well I'll be - I'll happily eat my own words here, it does work after all - I just didn't wait a few minutes before trying to re-join the network. Thanks all for suggesting this option, it's entirely reasonable and works well enough for my needs.

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[DanTheMan2020]

You didn't understand my question. The only 5GHz connection I want is between the base and the satellite. Everything else I want on 2.4GHz. It's that simple.

On the last firmware version (V2.5.0.30) I was able to split the SSID's and all my home automation worked in harmony with Alexa, connected to the 2.4GHz SSID. The problem is that most devices - smart-bulbs, switches, dimmers, thermostats, microwave, etc. only work with a 2.4GHz network.

Without splitting the SSID's my devices grab whichever is most convenient regardless of the frequency, then some don't talk to each other anymore. They work from their respective apps on the smartphone, and some work with Alexa, but some don't - and they all worked before! 

I have a wi-fi analyzer and can monitor the SSID's signal strength and distance, and with this new firmware, when I split the SSID's the 5GHz stays renamed for a few minutes then changes back to the same as before - same as the 2.4GHz SSID. This didn't happen with the old firmware.

I'll try wasting a couple more hours on this before spending the rest of the evening attempting to downgrade the firmware. This is not how a simple upgrade should go! Hear that Netgear?

[michaelkenward]

You will have to work a bit harder to get people to fathom what you are talking about. It is hard to understand how devices that can see only 2.4GHz WiFi can mess up your 5GHz WiFi.

[DanTheMan2020]

Essentially I have some devices that can connect to either, but I want to force them to connect to the 2.4 not the 5.0. Since I can only specify the SSID to connect to, some devices will choose either. I want them to connect to 2.4 only. How can this be done without renaming the 5.0 to something different? I also tried hiding the 5.0 but certain devices are still connecting to it automatically. I'm going to have to wait for someone else with the same problem (has a variety of 60+ wifi devices, where some no longer work with Alexa) in hopes they can help solve this. Clearly no one so far has had the same issue with a similar configuration after the upgrade.

[FURRYe38]

Clearly a reason that others havn't really posted about it is that there running there system as its designed. Automatic and the system and there devices decide which frequency to connect to. 

If you want something more granular and more controls with SSIDs and frequencies, Orbi may not be something well suited for you. You may need to look at other WiFi systems to see what they can provide you for this need of controlling where devices. Connect. 

For the most part, Orbi works as designed and intended for the average home user who just wants there devices to connect and work. Which frequency is of less concern for most users. If you need to force devices, then the only way is to have separation of SSIDs for each frequency. 

[Sylvain24]

Hello,

I' have the same issue. When i bought Orbi, after initial setup, unique SSID gave me speed issues because my MacBook retina is binding on 2.4ghz band, maybe the first responding band. So speed is poor as i'm in apartment and there is many 2.4 SSID', so finding a clean air is difficult.

I'm network engineer and professional devices (Aruba) don't have this kind of issue, band steering connect always the client at best capacities, NG don't.

I hope 2.5 FW is doing better job, i'll test but i have to modify SSID on all devices as 2.4 and 5Ghz was separate.

[DanTheMan2020]

Since when is something that worked just fine before an upgrade, then is broke afterwards, normal? And you suggest the Orbi is not the right product for me? It's this upgrade that's not right for me. Obviously this is not a technical forum.

[michaelkenward]

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@DanTheMan2020 wrote:

Since when is something that worked just fine before an upgrade, then is broke afterwards, normal?

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Because you were "breaking" the system before the upgrade. Orbi was never designed to deliver separate SSIDs.The whole sales pitch is that it is simple wifi.

Some people found a way to "cheat" the system. The firmware upgrade simply closed the loophole that they were using.

Think of it in terms of security issues. Villains in the outside world find ways of breaking into routers. The industry is in a constant race to close those security holes. Once closed, that's it. The villains can't get in, unless the user deliberately takes away the security fix.

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@DanTheMan2020 wrote:

And you suggest the Orbi is not the right product for me?

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You were sold something that, by design, does not meet your needs. Were you ever promised a system that provides separate SSIDs? That suggests that it is not the right product for you. 

Netgear makes plenty of products that do not use the same technology and that allow users to create separate SSIDs.

As others have said, Orbi devices are really aimed at the "keep it simple" end of the consumer market. Set up and configuration are designed to be as easy as possible. That means removing features that make life complicated. Oh, and Orbi systems seem to come at a price premium for that very reason.

Another sign of the "locked down" nature of Orbi routers is that the people who delight in writing third party firmware for Netgear, and other, routers simply don't bother with Orbi systems. Genuine router enthusiasts will even investigate third party firmware before they part with their money.

[schumaku]

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@Sylvain24 wrote:

I'm network engineer and professional devices (Aruba) don't have this kind of issue, band steering connect always the client at best capacities, NG don't.

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In the first priority it's the wireless client probing for 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz, selecting the better connection in case there are multiple BSSIDs on the same SSID on air, and to maintain a list of other AP radios on all bands.

The APs supporting 802.11k (Orbi does AFAIK) does provide the connected clients supporting the same band with information about the neighboring radios on the same and other APs.

Commercial AP with active band steering like Aruba often default to prefer 5 GHz connections, read they intentionally don't reply on the first few probes of a wireless client BSSID on 2.4 GHz at all. If there are several retries, it will answer on both bands for that client BSSID.

No idea (well, I have some but I dont wan't war with some of the fan boys...) why your MacBook does stick with the 2.4 GHz band instead of roaming to an available 5 GHz radio. Part of the wireless client decision scheme on the wireless client is based on the RSSI - if the 5 GHz RSSI is not significantly weaker than the 2.4 GHz RSSI it should roam over.

Typically, the 5 GHz RSSI is almost always slightly lower than the 2.4 GHz RSSI due to the physical difference at the same allowed TX power.

The final decision for the connection selected or a roaming attempt is always with the wireless client. One minor exception: Some AP are aggressively dropping connection (e.g. because of a high number of connected clients, or because of a high load on that radio) - this will trigger a re-evaluation on the client, probing the radios on air again...

Netgear has some kind of band steering in place, unfortunately it's "logic" is not published, and there is only that one mode. Aruba does for example publish some basic implementation of the (still three?) band steering modes available (balance, force5GHz, prefer5GHz).

If things should work consumer friendly on a single SSID, I would expect there is something in place like Aruba's prefer5GHz.

[LeBullet]

So, I upgraded today, and my Wifi immediately became a nightmare again... then I read this thread, on removing split SSID's from the config.  I was doing a Teams Video Call only 10 mins later and it was hideous immediately on my Windows 10 Surface Book. dropping and reconnecting, over and over, and over.... it was like going back, 6-8 months again...

so I simply downgraded it, and restored previous version, which was working well enough, not perfect, but much better than Orbi has ever run.  

I understand it's not really Netgear Orbi's issue, around the networking world not implementing/working as exactly as it should, but it's just unworkable for me and I expect many, where i can't have reliable Wifi, with devices trying to connect and reconnect over and over again between 2.4 and 5Ghz, it just makes so much of our house unworkable.

So, I'll stay on this firmware for ever, until I replace Orbi, which might sadly be quite soon, as it's been a pretty tiresome, unreliable experience in the main, and a lot, lot more painful to make run, than it should be, for a consumer product, I'm sad to say.

[DanTheMan2020]

@LeBullet, did you have any trouble downgrading back to the previous version (.30)? Did you do the satellite first, then the base? I'll be doing this over the weekend - can't afford the downtime during the week. Hopefully it'll go smoothly. Thanks in advance.

[LeBullet]

no, i just downloaded the zip's, and then manually uploaded them in the console.  I did the router first, then the satellite.  

it actually restored the 2 SSID's, though truncated the 5GHZ name, so it needed a little tweak, using the method again, job done.. whole job, took under 10 mins to complete.  All working fine as was again now.

[DanTheMan2020]

Ok that's great news! I'll give it a shot this weekend and let everyone know if it solved my home-automation problems!

[LeBullet]

That's why I went back, we have a very connected home, Sonos, Lights all Hue, Nest Cameras, etc, etc... I'd found such stability and overall happiness with Orbi, it needed a reboot every couple of weeks maybe, but in the main was pretty solid... and then today.. Keppowwwwwww..

simple job, should be fine pal.  

[digitelpersona]

what was the firmware version number before v2.5.0.38 was pushed out? I need to go back to the previous firmware so I can split the SSID again, but I can't figure out what version it was or where to download it from. The closest I was able to find is v2.3.5.30... but I don't think that was the previous version. thanks in advance. 

[LeBullet]

I've gone to 2.3.1.60

[DanTheMan2020]

@digitelpersona yes, the last version was V2.3.5.30 and can be downloaded from their site. There are 2 zip files - one containing RBR50 (for the base) and RBS50 (for the satellite). I haven't downgraded to these yet but heard it's easy and straight-forward. I'll be doing it this weekend.

[DanTheMan2020]

Same here - total of 55 wifi devices and growing - light switches, smart bulbs, motion/door sensors, Phillips Hue lighting, cameras, microwave, Instant Pot, etc. and throw in a home network domain controller, a couple media servers, high-end workstation and a few laptops/tablets, plus Alexa in some form in every room. Probably more than the average person, which is why I bought the Orbi mesh in the first place - to reach all corners of the house plus to give me a high-speed wired connection to my music room (via the satellite) which is upstairs from the rest of my office and gear. Until this upgrade, everything worked great, co-existed and was fast where it needed to be. I too think I'll stay on the prior version until the newer versions are stable and won't break my network again.