v2.5.0.38 undoes SSD split - is there a fix?

[digitelpersona]

@DanTheMan2020  hi Dan, thanks for responding, but I thought there was a firmware that was v2.5.0.30 or v2.5.0.36?  I went back to v2.3.5.30, but it's a bit buggy... I was able to get the SSID split to work under that firmware (v2.3.5.30), but I was hoping someone knew of the previous v2.5.0.XX... unless I'm completly wrong and there was never a v2.5.0.XX prior to the latest v2.5.0.38

Another way to ask it is this; did the Orbi firmware jump from v2.3.5.30 directly to v2.5.0.38? or was there a few firmware(s) in between? Thanks

[DanTheMan2020]

@digitelpersona digitelpersona, I'm not 100% sure of the prior version, but think it was .30. Plus that's the newest previous version I could find on the site.

I'm re-thinking doing the downgrade now. Last night I surveyed all my devices and it's only the Feit smart-bulbs that are having a problem now. Everything else has settled down and is working. So I contacted Feit and will wait before doing any other network changes. Still it's curious why the Feit bulbs worked before the upgrade, but don't now.

[ksudhir]

Yes As of now, my experience is there is no way to split the 2.4 vs 5 with the new firmware. It does not not matter how many times you split, it automatically resets back to single SSID

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@DanTheMan2020 wrote:

You didn't understand my question. The only 5GHz connection I want is between the base and the satellite. Everything else I want on 2.4GHz. It's that simple.

On the last firmware version (V2.5.0.30) I was able to split the SSID's and all my home automation worked in harmony with Alexa, connected to the 2.4GHz SSID. The problem is that most devices - smart-bulbs, switches, dimmers, thermostats, microwave, etc. only work with a 2.4GHz network.

Without splitting the SSID's my devices grab whichever is most convenient regardless of the frequency, then some don't talk to each other anymore. They work from their respective apps on the smartphone, and some work with Alexa, but some don't - and they all worked before! 

I have a wi-fi analyzer and can monitor the SSID's signal strength and distance, and with this new firmware, when I split the SSID's the 5GHz stays renamed for a few minutes then changes back to the same as before - same as the 2.4GHz SSID. This didn't happen with the old firmware.

I'll try wasting a couple more hours on this before spending the rest of the evening attempting to downgrade the firmware. This is not how a simple upgrade should go! Hear that Netgear?

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@DanTheMan2020 wrote:

You didn't understand my question. The only 5GHz connection I want is between the base and the satellite. Everything else I want on 2.4GHz. It's that simple.

On the last firmware version (V2.5.0.30) I was able to split the SSID's and all my home automation worked in harmony with Alexa, connected to the 2.4GHz SSID. The problem is that most devices - smart-bulbs, switches, dimmers, thermostats, microwave, etc. only work with a 2.4GHz network.

Without splitting the SSID's my devices grab whichever is most convenient regardless of the frequency, then some don't talk to each other anymore. They work from their respective apps on the smartphone, and some work with Alexa, but some don't - and they all worked before! 

I have a wi-fi analyzer and can monitor the SSID's signal strength and distance, and with this new firmware, when I split the SSID's the 5GHz stays renamed for a few minutes then changes back to the same as before - same as the 2.4GHz SSID. This didn't happen with the old firmware.

I'll try wasting a couple more hours on this before spending the rest of the evening attempting to downgrade the firmware. This is not how a simple upgrade should go! Hear that Netgear?

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@DanTheMan2020 wrote:

You didn't understand my question. The only 5GHz connection I want is between the base and the satellite. Everything else I want on 2.4GHz. It's that simple.

On the last firmware version (V2.5.0.30) I was able to split the SSID's and all my home automation worked in harmony with Alexa, connected to the 2.4GHz SSID. The problem is that most devices - smart-bulbs, switches, dimmers, thermostats, microwave, etc. only work with a 2.4GHz network.

Without splitting the SSID's my devices grab whichever is most convenient regardless of the frequency, then some don't talk to each other anymore. They work from their respective apps on the smartphone, and some work with Alexa, but some don't - and they all worked before! 

I have a wi-fi analyzer and can monitor the SSID's signal strength and distance, and with this new firmware, when I split the SSID's the 5GHz stays renamed for a few minutes then changes back to the same as before - same as the 2.4GHz SSID. This didn't happen with the old firmware.

I'll try wasting a couple more hours on this before spending the rest of the evening attempting to downgrade the firmware. This is not how a simple upgrade should go! Hear that Netgear?

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@DanTheMan2020 wrote:

You didn't understand my question. The only 5GHz connection I want is between the base and the satellite. Everything else I want on 2.4GHz. It's that simple.

On the last firmware version (V2.5.0.30) I was able to split the SSID's and all my home automation worked in harmony with Alexa, connected to the 2.4GHz SSID. The problem is that most devices - smart-bulbs, switches, dimmers, thermostats, microwave, etc. only work with a 2.4GHz network.

Without splitting the SSID's my devices grab whichever is most convenient regardless of the frequency, then some don't talk to each other anymore. They work from their respective apps on the smartphone, and some work with Alexa, but some don't - and they all worked before! 

I have a wi-fi analyzer and can monitor the SSID's signal strength and distance, and with this new firmware, when I split the SSID's the 5GHz stays renamed for a few minutes then changes back to the same as before - same as the 2.4GHz SSID. This didn't happen with the old firmware.

I'll try wasting a couple more hours on this before spending the rest of the evening attempting to downgrade the firmware. This is not how a simple upgrade should go! Hear that Netgear?

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@DanTheMan2020 wrote:

You didn't understand my question. The only 5GHz connection I want is between the base and the satellite. Everything else I want on 2.4GHz. It's that simple.

On the last firmware version (V2.5.0.30) I was able to split the SSID's and all my home automation worked in harmony with Alexa, connected to the 2.4GHz SSID. The problem is that most devices - smart-bulbs, switches, dimmers, thermostats, microwave, etc. only work with a 2.4GHz network.

Without splitting the SSID's my devices grab whichever is most convenient regardless of the frequency, then some don't talk to each other anymore. They work from their respective apps on the smartphone, and some work with Alexa, but some don't - and they all worked before! 

I have a wi-fi analyzer and can monitor the SSID's signal strength and distance, and with this new firmware, when I split the SSID's the 5GHz stays renamed for a few minutes then changes back to the same as before - same as the 2.4GHz SSID. This didn't happen with the old firmware.

I'll try wasting a couple more hours on this before spending the rest of the evening attempting to downgrade the firmware. This is not how a simple upgrade should go! Hear that Netgear?

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[CrimpOn]

A suggestion:  Drop the 5G transmit power to 1%.  Disable the 5G SSID broadcast.  Tell 5G devices to "forget" the Orbi, then have them search for and join WiFi.  (The 2.4G devices obviously have never seen the 5G signal and do not need to be reset.)  I think that will force everything over to the 2.4G channel.

It seems a shame to lose the Orbi 5G capability.  I sense there must be "something else" going on.  I understand that some IoT device apps were ineptly programmed and the original connection process failed when the smartphone was on 5G WiFi.  Once the device is connected to Orbi WiFi, there should be no direct connection between a device running Alexa and the device.  All communication should go through the Orbi.  Every 2.4G only device I have tried works when my smartphone is on 5G (cameras, plugs, etc.)

Anyway, maybe neutering the Orbi 5G will get the condition you want.

[Sylvain24]

Thanks, and for 2.4/5Ghz split SSID, is it working with v2.5.1.8 ?

[SW_]

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@Sylvain24 wrote:

Thanks, and for 2.4/5Ghz split SSID, is it working with v2.5.1.8 ?

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Not sure if it's a fix you are looking for, but there's a way to split SSIDs via Guest Network rather than main network.  You can also turn your Guest Network into main network if you want to or just move some of the trouble devices over.  Check out this Separate SSIDs on Guest Network.  This works on v2.5.0.40.

Good Luck!

[Sylvain24]

As the previous version, split 5Ghz SSID has disapear after few minutes after upgrade.

[SW_]

@Sylvain24, have you tried splitting Guest Network SSID?

[pacumming]

I was going to buy this router but now I may not. There's really no reason that Netgear doesn't allow a split. If power goes off as it occasionally does in my neighborhood then my iot devices may not connect properly and that's just too much work. I'm going to read the article about the guest Network which is a workaround but I would like to hear from folks who have tried this and perhaps shut off the 2.4 main signal. Else I may just go and buy another Netgear Nighthawk series even though the orbi mesh type system is desirable due to the nice back haul feature especially in rbk50. I have power line in my home but due to the circuit breakers I did not get optimal speed even with a powerline 1200 series. Perhaps I might try MoCA in the future

[michaelkenward]

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@pacumming wrote:
If power goes off as it occasionally does in my neighborhood then my iot devices may not connect properly and that's just too much work.

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I have seen no convincing reports here that this happens. On further investigation, past claims turn out to be misguided.

It is only during setup that poorly designed IoT devices need separate a wifi client that has to be on 2.4 GHz.

The IoT devices cannot see 5 GHz. When the power returns they will only see, and connect to, the Orbi's 2.4 GHz wifi.

Of course, poorly designed devices that won't allow you to set them up with a 5 GHz wifi device may also fail to hold their settings during a power cut. But who is to say that you won't have to set them up afresh again?

A good way to choose between IoT devices would be to look for those that are difficult to set up and those that cannot survive a power cut. Then go and buy something else.

[LeBullet]

Well, that's great I'll just keep testing and swapping out endless pieces of technology, because NetGear don't allow such levels of control and flexibility of their flagship technology.

I have large number of devices that have problems with this issue, which the split channels fixes, the most key one, is the satellite TV system that uses WiFi, which, worked sporadically through the last couple of years of Orbi firmware updates, but, recently, just fell apart, without the split channels.

It's a lovely idealistic situation, that the problem is everyone else's issue, not NetGear, but, in the super connected world, there's just to many different devices to take such a holistic view of the world.

I'm afraid, I'm leaving Orbi soon, it's just been to painful, and I've endured a tough few years of a fairly unreliable piece of technology. Fast, but flakey....

[DanTheMan2020]

I also complained about this, and someone gave me an idea that fixed the issue for me. 

I disabled the SSID broadcast for the 5GHz transmitter (shows as hidden on a wifi scan), so all the 2.4GHz devices now connect by SSID to only the 2.4GHz channels (there are 2).

Everything's working again - Alexa, FireTV, thermostat, switches, lights, sockets, microwave, etc and voice works for them all now too.

So I didn't need to split the SSID names - just hide the 5GHz SSID broadcast.

[michaelkenward]

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@DanTheMan2020 wrote:

So I didn't need to split the SSID names - just hide the 5GHz SSID broadcast.

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Exactly. That is the tactic that has worked for all but a handful of truly dreadful IoT devices. You will find it recommended in many messages, including some earlier in this conversation. For those who can be bothered to track back, just roll back a few screens.

Suppressing the 5 GHz SSID grew out of long running conversations around her. And it isn't the only approach. Another early idea was to reduce the signal strength for 5 GHz, or to move the wifi client used to set up devices out of range of the 5 GHz.

But some people continue to insist that they only solution is to disable Mesh, the key feature of the Orbi system, along with a simple, consumer friendly management regime. 

Maybe Netgear should refuse to sell these things to people who are too smart for their own good. They can always buy a Nighthawk router.

[LeBullet]

Imagine the biggish this is, as a normal, bone technical end user... Sure, we can adjust and amend and tweak these things... Hardly the support journey for 98% of people would be paid to even take, or have to take.

I shouldn't have disable any 5Ghz bands, or turn it down,

I agree, totally, the concept is great, but unfortunately doesn't work, for those that it does, awesome.

This is not what good experience looks like, it's just way, way to hard. Netgears customers shouldn't have to sit and read Internet forums about how to make their (expensive) products work, because they're now out of 1 year manafacturers support.

I've spent way too much time already, patching, updating, tweaking, adjusting, amending, for months and months... Enough..

I wish you all the best if luck with the journey

[SW_]

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@pacumming wrote:
I was going to buy this router but now I may not. There's really no reason that Netgear doesn't allow a split. If power goes off as it occasionally does in my neighborhood then my iot devices may not connect properly and that's just too much work. I'm going to read the article about the guest Network which is a workaround but I would like to hear from folks who have tried this and perhaps shut off the 2.4 main signal. Else I may just go and buy another Netgear Nighthawk series even though the orbi mesh type system is desirable due to the nice back haul feature especially in rbk50. I have power line in my home but due to the circuit breakers I did not get optimal speed even with a powerline 1200 series. Perhaps I might try MoCA in the future

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It's entirely possible that NG will shutdown telnet backdoor completely in future FW update.  Separating 2.4GHz and 5GHz Guest Network SSIDs works today with v2.5.1.8, but it might be subjected to the same fate as Main network SSIDs in future FW update. I wouldn't hold my breath on it.