Reply

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

stsh
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

 

Why am I not surprised?

 

 

 

 


@FURRYe38 wrote:

You can try the following to see if blocking the update services will work:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-AX/RBR850-Frequent-Disconnects-Starting-March-9th-AM-EST/m-p/1...

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Firmware-auto-update-domain/m-p/1499659/highlight/true#M22873


@stsh wrote:

@FURRYe38 wrote:

I think v25 was last version that you could enabletelnet and it worked. Smiley Embarassed


guess what. You are correct.

This crap updated itself, most likely a few days ago. This might also be the reason I started having this upnp issue all of a sudden. In any case the dns change is most likely gone and the telnet access is also gone.

At the moment I only see one solution. Unplug the internet to block it from updating itself. Downgrade the router and ap. Enable telnet and change all the nvram parameters related to auto update to disabled. And then do the same as above.

It's just an untested idea but looks like too much pain to go through this. Might be easier to eat the cost and get a decent router from a different vendor.


 


 

Message 476 of 668
msinex
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

I'm by no means an expert from a networking standpoint and don't really want to have to do my own coding.  Just looking for a stable router that will work with the Orbi where I can do things like static IP, port forwarding, etc.  Oh...and DNS service that works...that would be good.  Any other experiences out there that have worked?  Thanks!

Message 477 of 668
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Block only the specific update addresses. Do not block netgear.com as a wild card or to there main site. Just try to block the update addresses to see if that prevents the system from updating. I believe I tried it once and tested it by checking for FW and the RBR displayed a message that "services were not available". 


@stsh wrote:

 

Why am I not surprised?

 

 

 

 


@FURRYe38 wrote:

You can try the following to see if blocking the update services will work:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-AX/RBR850-Frequent-Disconnects-Starting-March-9th-AM-EST/m-p/1...

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Firmware-auto-update-domain/m-p/1499659/highlight/true#M22873


@stsh wrote:

@FURRYe38 wrote:

I think v25 was last version that you could enabletelnet and it worked. Smiley Embarassed


guess what. You are correct.

This crap updated itself, most likely a few days ago. This might also be the reason I started having this upnp issue all of a sudden. In any case the dns change is most likely gone and the telnet access is also gone.

At the moment I only see one solution. Unplug the internet to block it from updating itself. Downgrade the router and ap. Enable telnet and change all the nvram parameters related to auto update to disabled. And then do the same as above.

It's just an untested idea but looks like too much pain to go through this. Might be easier to eat the cost and get a decent router from a different vendor.


 


 



 

 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM1200 Modem |  Wifi Router Orbi RBK853 (Router Mode), Wired Backhaul and RBK752 | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700

Message 478 of 668
stsh
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

I tried. Does not work. The screenshot demonstrates that even blocking netgear.com page does not work. They must have some sort of override for this domain.

Message 479 of 668
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Until NG fixes this, most any other router will work. Even NG R series routers will work and put the Orbi AX in AP mode behind a different router with it's wifi disabled. Or try the IPv6 6to4 configuration as mentioned by @Mstrbig. I have done this as well had have not seen any problems.

If you haven't submitted a support ticket, I would recommend you do so, so NG knows more of you are having problems with this and they need to address this. 

 

Good Luck. 


@msinex wrote:

I'm by no means an expert from a networking standpoint and don't really want to have to do my own coding.  Just looking for a stable router that will work with the Orbi where I can do things like static IP, port forwarding, etc.  Oh...and DNS service that works...that would be good.  Any other experiences out there that have worked?  Thanks!


 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM1200 Modem |  Wifi Router Orbi RBK853 (Router Mode), Wired Backhaul and RBK752 | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700

Message 480 of 668
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Is that on older version of FW? If so, then I get they may have an override. Only other suggestion would be to put a different router in front of the RBR and block those addresses from that router. That would stop that I presume.


@stsh wrote:

I tried. Does not work. The screenshot demonstrates that even blocking netgear.com page does not work. They must have some sort of override for this domain.


 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM1200 Modem |  Wifi Router Orbi RBK853 (Router Mode), Wired Backhaul and RBK752 | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700

Message 481 of 668
stsh
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues


@FURRYe38 wrote:

Is that on older version of FW? If so, then I get they may have an override. Only other suggestion would be to put a different router in front of the RBR and block those addresses from that router. That would stop that I presume.


@stsh wrote:

I tried. Does not work. The screenshot demonstrates that even blocking netgear.com page does not work. They must have some sort of override for this domain.


 


Yes, that's on the older version. apparently you cannot block anything netgear. I'm sure I could come up with some creative way to edit the hosts file or something via telnet but I'm getting really tired of messing with this junk. Adding another box in front of it just to block the updates so we can hack into it to solve a problem sounds like too much effort. Easier choice would be to add a small separate dns server inside the network and not rely on this router for dns at all.

Message 482 of 668
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

One can do that as well. I believe others have Pi-Holes set up. 

@CrimpOn 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM1200 Modem |  Wifi Router Orbi RBK853 (Router Mode), Wired Backhaul and RBK752 | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700

Message 483 of 668
energie
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Just to let everyone know. I switched on the Orbi AX with latest firmware. It still has the DNS error. Based on the whole 'turn on ip v6 to 4 tunnel' I tried that workaround too. That also does not work. Which is to be expected.

Conclusion. Netgear firmware / DNS resolving is still broken.

Only real solution is to ditch the Orbi AX in the bin or put it in to AP mode with a third party router in front of it. Which is the most economical solution if you cannot return the Orbi AX.
Message 484 of 668
inZania
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

I am in shock. I have spent the last 4 months trying to debug frequent DNS resolution problems, exactly as described through this thread. I never suspected that the Orbi firmware itself was responsible; I had been running in circles debugging everything else, even building a PiHole to bring DNS lookup under my control. When that didn't solve the problem, I realized that the problem had to be with my RBR850, and ended up finding this thread. 

 

We both run businesses from home and have this problem multiple times per DAY. NetGear's defective product has literally cost us thousands and thousands of dollars in lost productivity.

Message 485 of 668
msinex
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

My new TP link wired router came in the mail today, going to shift the Orbi over to AP mode over the weekend and hopefully put this mess behind me.  Will certainly be the last NetGear product I ever purchase.

Message 486 of 668
Retired_Member
Not applicable

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

I'm curious why I'm not experiencing this issue.  I have the RBK850 in router mode with 2 RBS850's all running V3.2.18.1_1.4.14 with wired backhauls.  I factory reset them a few months ago and I've never experienced this issue.  Is there a certain scenario that causes these DNS issues?

Message 487 of 668
energie
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

It's a firmware issue that affects all users running these Orbi AX in router mode.

Not to put a tinfoil hat on. But it's really strange that a user with no real posts. Post a comment regarding this issue. With an immediate thumps up from Furrye38 (who seems to be working for Netgear).

Netgear should fix the Firmware / DNS issue. They already did it for the Orbi AX pro series one year ago.

Stop this nonsense and fix the Firmware.
Message 488 of 668
tak1313
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

You can see from my other posts I am not a fan of Netgear anymore (never buying a Netgear product again).  That being said, I never experienced the DNS issue except for a couple of times that I'm not 100% sure if that what it truly was.  I switched to AP mode after my Asus router because of Orbi's truly s*cky controls, QOS ability, and the fact that I'm not going to pay Netgear for services that I can get for free with my Asus (AiProtection - parental controls are free too, but I don't need that).  As an aside, no DNS issues with my Asus router.

Message 489 of 668
msinex
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

I think we would all like to know why this happens to some users and not others.  I think we all care very much about the answer to that question.  It's frustrating that Netgear seemingly doesn't care.

Message 490 of 668
Retired_Member
Not applicable

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

@msinex I think we can all agree with that.

Message 491 of 668
bullm00n
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues


@Retired_Member wrote:

So apparently I can't ask a question in the community forums without being judged as a new user or suggesting that I'm affiliated with Netgear.  I was a Ubiquiti user for years and decided to switch to Netgear and buy the AX6000 in January.  I follow the forums to keep up on firmware release notes and chats.  I noticed this thread and read most of it.  I was simply asking why I'm not seeing this issue.  I have 75 devices on my network and I would think that I would see this issue based on all of the chatter.  Stating that all users running Orbi AX in router mode doesn't appear accurate as I'm not experiencing this issue.  I was simply sharing my experience to see if there is any reason why a user would or wouldn't experience this issue.


I asked a similar question as well: what settings / setup does one need to have to experience this problem.  Based on the amount of discussion, it seems like a few people may know, but I got no answer.  The reason I asked is that if there is a way to make it happen for anyone all the time, then it might be a lot easier to get Netgear to see what the problem is and fix it. So it would really be great for the most knowlegeble person on this issue to tell us how to recreate the problem and how to recognize it beyond a doubt.

bullmoon
Xfinity / xFi / RBR850 / RBS850 AP Mode
Message 492 of 668
energie
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

It is not a settings problem. The firmware uses software called dnsmasq and internally that is broken. That had been proven by going in to the router using Telnet and applying fixes manually. Netgear just did a bad job on the firmware.

You should experience this issue running this router in Router mode (not AP mode - as that doesnt use the DNS) and nothing else enabled, while visiting a good number of (random) websites.

User that say they are not experiencing this issue. Are either running this router not in Router mode (see comment from other user above) or are just unaware as depending on your browser and automatic reload happens. Which in my experience always works.
Message 493 of 668
BriceLB
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

OK so here is my experience. 

 

I installed peplink balance 20X router between my Orbi Router and my ISP Modem, switched the Orbi in AP mode and everything seemed to work for a while. 

 

That was the best moment of my digital life since I bought the AX6000 Orbis. 

 

Then after a day or two, I got the first symptoms of DNS problems : my Philips Hue Hub couldn't connect to the cloud. So my lightbulbs started working unreliably from HomeKit (that has an Homepod mini talking with Philips Cloud to work). Localy the Hue app worked fine. 

 

I decided to reboot the peplink, rebooted the RBR850 then the 3 RBS850 an went to bed, hoping that the glitche was solved. The next morning all my Google Nest Hubs (I have 4 around the building) could connect to wifi but not to their server ... My Samsung TV Tizen based apps (Prime, Disney, NetFlix ...) could launch but none of them could stream a video. I could browse the web but not access the Samsung Store. My Philips Nest Hub could not connect to the Cloud. My PlayStation could download an update, browse the web but counldn't connect to the PlayStore. All my Apple TV, iMacs, MacBooks, HomePods worked fine however (more on this later). 

 

I need to specify that most of my devices are using DNS servers assigned by DHCP at the exception of iPads and Macs that use nextDNS custom setup. 

 

So it was a strange DNS related problem. Obvioulsy ome records were cached and some weren't. Some request went through, some did not get an answer. It seemed that the devices connected to the RBR850 worked fine but those connected to the RBS850 Satellites (by Ethernet) had partial resolution of DNS request (only those in the cache of the satellite ??). AND ALL THIS WITH THE ORBIS IN AP MODE !

 

I switched back the Orbi Router in Router mode, with the peplink also in router mode (double NAT) and after rebooting all my devices... everything seemed to work fine. Not a single problem with around 75 devices actives on the network. 

 

I use nextDNS in the LAN settings of the peplink and it authenticate using the WAN IP. So I tought it maybe the point of failure. I switched everything (peplink and Orbi in router mode) to use my ISP automatically assigned DNS and I switched back the Orbi in AP mode. All the routing started to happen in the peplink and everything was working like magic. All the devices connected fine after waiting for the expiration of their DHCP settings or rebooting them, with their online services thanks to all DNS requests being solved by the peplink router. 

 

I tought I had nailed the problem down to nextDNS. 

 

The next morning all IoT devices (Google Nest Hub, Nanoleaf lights, Philips Hue Hub, online services on Samsung TV, PlayStations, etc.) were down again. And now I realized that some games/services couldn't connect on iMac (League of Legends, Discord, ...). 

I have two teenager in the building, so you can imagine the trouble. 

 

I switched back the Orbi in Router mode and I am still in this setup. Everything works and I have not experienced a single DNS related problem since. The Orbi Router is setup to receive its DNS server by DHCP. So DNS resolution are actually done by the peplink, not by my ISP. That may explain the reliability and fast response speed. 

 

My diagnostic is that when the Orbis are in AP mode, they forward outgoing DNS requests to a Local DNS Proxy that screw up either in the Satellite or the Router, even if DHCP settings in the peplink assigns different DNS servers to the devices. For some reasons it interfere on request from most IoT devices but not from MacOS, iOS, tvOS, ...

 

 

 

Message 494 of 668
Garwoofoo
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

That's bizarre, that doesn't correlate with my experience at all.

 

Router mode - constant DNS errors on all devices

AP mode - no issues

 

Message 495 of 668
tak1313
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

I still think if someone (or some people) can get this into major computer media (Cnet, PCMag, DongKnows, etc.) or even YouTube (I'm not a YouTuber myself), and it gains traction, it will force Netgear's hand as it would start affecting sales.  Everyone here has already put their money in the pit, so they (Netgear) already has you.  If it starts to affect FUTURE sales, that's when they'll REALLY care.

 

Complaining on Amazon reviews (et al) really does nothing, as the complaints get drowned out by shear volume, and many consumers don't even read reviews - they go buy media reviews, what reviewers say on YouTube, etc.

 

Message 496 of 668
stsh
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues


@inZania wrote:

I am in shock. I have spent the last 4 months trying to debug frequent DNS resolution problems, exactly as described through this thread. I never suspected that the Orbi firmware itself was responsible; I had been running in circles debugging everything else, even building a PiHole to bring DNS lookup under my control. When that didn't solve the problem, I realized that the problem had to be with my RBR850, and ended up finding this thread. 

 

We both run businesses from home and have this problem multiple times per DAY. NetGear's defective product has literally cost us thousands and thousands of dollars in lost productivity.


pihole definitely solves this problem. Or replacing the builtin router dns with any other functional dns server.

I've added one myself and it is working 100% without any issues.

If it didn't work for you - you must've done something wrong.

Message 497 of 668
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

And of course there are some that have not or had little experience with this in router mode. I've had my system since 2019 and only saw a few DNS problems mentioned in ths thread on prior v12 FW. Since installing v1 of the current release. Nothing, again, nothing in DNS has appeared since. Currently using ISP DNS, IPv6 6to4 DNS, Armor and Traffic Meter is disabled. DST enabled. Not here to argue either. Not everyone sees this issue. 


@Garwoofoo wrote:

That's bizarre, that doesn't correlate with my experience at all.

 

Router mode - constant DNS errors on all devices

AP mode - no issues

 




Again, for those that do, I recommend you contact NG support and let them know what your having problems with. All this needs to be addressed by NG support and users that are seeing this. Nothing we can do here in the forums. NG support and engineering doesn't watch the forums. So best way to make it known to to contact NG support directly. 

 

Good Luck. 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM1200 Modem |  Wifi Router Orbi RBK853 (Router Mode), Wired Backhaul and RBK752 | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700

Message 498 of 668
energie
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Exactly, the problem is the '90 day support window'. While the warrenty is 1-2 years. After these 90 days there is no option in contacting support. Only option is to exchange this product over and over again. However, exchanging this product doesn't fix the actual problem. Which is software related (firmware). 

 

Meanwhile Netgear is acting like nothing is wrong to those who actually manage to contact Netgear support. While it has been clearly proven. Again: for the Orbi AX Pro Netgear fixed this exact same problem a year ago. However, for its consumer grade product they simply don't care.

Message 499 of 668
stsh
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues


@energie wrote:

Exactly, the problem is the '90 day support window'. While the warrenty is 1-2 years. After these 90 days there is no option in contacting support. Only option is to exchange this product over and over again. However, exchanging this product doesn't fix the actual problem. Which is software related (firmware). 

 

Meanwhile Netgear is acting like nothing is wrong to those who actually manage to contact Netgear support. While it has been clearly proven. Again: for the Orbi AX Pro Netgear fixed this exact same problem a year ago. However, for its consumer grade product they simply don't care.


You do realize how their support works? The first line support which you're getting by default is basically some random person from india who knows absolutely nothing about the product and is simply reading from script. Then if you get through that and get it escalated you get the 2nd line support - who actually knows something but that person is also not an engineer by any means and has no control or input into software development cycle. The level of knowledge is about right for a user who read the manual. I actually bit the bullet at some point and went through the first 2 and got the case escalated by the 2nd line - supposedly to the engineering. but then it went quiet, so I have no clue what happens after. I suspect that nothing really.

 

What I'm saying is that simply calling the support and talking to whoever picks the phone is not enough. None of the devs will ever see or hear about these calls.

Message 500 of 668
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