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Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?

TackMan
Tutor

Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?

Hi All,

 

I have a very frustrating experience with one of 2 RBS850 Satellites.  The Router reports the connection to both are good, most devices appear to connect to either satellite, and also to the router, EXCEPT when connected to ONE Satellite (the upstairs one), One Windows 10 PC, one Windows 10 Laptop, and occasionally my iPhone XR will connect to WiFi, but not be able to connect to the internet).  Other devices work properly.  If we move the devices to the other end of the house (other satellite) they work.  If they connect to the router, they work!  It is driving me nuts!

 

Any advice?

 

Many thanks,

 

TackMan

Message 1 of 25
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?

What Firmware version is currently loaded?
What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too?

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet or more is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected.
https://kb.netgear.com/31029/Where-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite

 

It's up to devcies to pick and choose where they connect too...Not Orbi.

Be sure the laptops wifi adapter drivers are up to date. 

Contact the mfr of this laptop for additional help and support regarding there product. 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.3.5(Router mode/LAG Disabled) & EX7700x2
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, CBR750, RBK953(v6.0.3.68) & XR450(v130), RBK853 v4.6.3.16(AP) & RBK752 v4.6.5.14, RBK50(v22), SXR30(v110), R7000(v34), R7800(v84), R7960P(v82), EX7500/EX7700, and WNHDE111
Message 2 of 25
TackMan
Tutor

Re: Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?

Hi Furrye38,

 

Many thanks. In answer to your questions:

 

What Firmware version is currently loaded? V3.2.18.1_1.4.14 (the latest)
What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too? It is an Arris CM8200, supplied by NBN for their HFC service

 

Size of home: Large, 4 bedroom, 2 story.

Distance to satellites: 10-15m (30-45ft).  Router reports connection to satellites as good

 

It's up to devcies to pick and choose where they connect too...Not Orbi: Yes, I know, but the issue is they work fine connected to the router, or one satellite, but when connected to the other satellite, they do not connect to the internet (even though they have a solid WiFi connection

 

Be sure the laptops wifi adapter drivers are up to date. Contact the mfr of this laptop for additional help and support regarding there product: Yes, I am working on that, BUT the issue is that one NG satellite works well, and the other one doesn't, with the _same_ laptop.  (ie when I move it close to one satellite and then the other, and track what it is connected to in the app).  This implies there is something about one of the satellites.

 

I have done a full factory reset of every device, and still no improvement? Any suggestions at the NG end?

Message 3 of 25
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?

Try swapping RBS locations with each other to see if the problem follows the 1 RBS...

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.3.5(Router mode/LAG Disabled) & EX7700x2
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, CBR750, RBK953(v6.0.3.68) & XR450(v130), RBK853 v4.6.3.16(AP) & RBK752 v4.6.5.14, RBK50(v22), SXR30(v110), R7000(v34), R7800(v84), R7960P(v82), EX7500/EX7700, and WNHDE111
Message 4 of 25
titaniumrx8
Apprentice

Re: Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?

When you move away from one satellite and get near the other, the PC won't necessarily switch to the closer satellite trying instead to stay connected to it's first connection point. Try stopping and restarting the wifi on your PC when you're near the "bad" satellite. Then look to see where you're connected.
Message 5 of 25
TackMan
Tutor

Re: Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?

Hi All, thank you so much for the suggestions, it really helped me think things through.

 

I have made 3 changes that seem to have worked (fingers crossed):-

 

1. I swapped the satellites around

2. I changed the RTS/CTS value to 500 (from the default of 64)

3. I had another access point roughly like this:-


     Upstairs:                                                       Orbi Sat (middle of upstairs of the house)

     Downstairs: Orbi Sat (front of house) <--- Orbi Router ---> NightHawk EAX20 (set as an access point at the back of the house)

     (The EAX20 is wired via ethernet to Router)

 

It struck me it could be part of the problem, so I forced its 2.4G and 5G channels to be away from the Orbi channels (visible and hidden).

 

For the last 10 minutes things are looking OK!!!  I will let you know if things stay OK.

 

Message 6 of 25
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?

Keep us posted on how it goes. 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.3.5(Router mode/LAG Disabled) & EX7700x2
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, CBR750, RBK953(v6.0.3.68) & XR450(v130), RBK853 v4.6.3.16(AP) & RBK752 v4.6.5.14, RBK50(v22), SXR30(v110), R7000(v34), R7800(v84), R7960P(v82), EX7500/EX7700, and WNHDE111
Message 7 of 25
TackMan
Tutor

Re: Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?

Hi All,

 

Unfortunately things are still not stable, and the symptoms are the same.  Some devices will connect to the Satellite's WiFi network, but not be able to connect to the internet (so they show a strong signal and connection, but all internet services are unavailable.) The good news is that I have eliminated some possible causes:-

- it is not the satellite (because I swapped them)

- It is not the link between the satellite and the router because I have tested it with wired devices plugged in to the satellite, and the internet connection works well

 

I have some suspicions about what it could be.  Some thoughts:-

- The issue appears to occur when devices are between the Upstairs Orbi Satellite, and the NightHawk EAX20 Access Point

- It does not occur at all near the router, or the satellite at the front of the house -- these are generally some way away from the EAX20

- I have set the EAX20's Wifi to be "Home AV" and "Home AV 5G", versus the single network name for the Orbi's of "Home"

- I have made sure the EAX20 is now on different channels (1, and 60) vs the Orbi (11, and 48)

 

Could there be some strange interference going on between the devices?  Any advice or thoughts?

 

Kind regards,

 

TackMan

Message 8 of 25
Mikey94025
Prodigy

Re: Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?

I have an RBR850 system and 3 satellites.  I can only run 1 satellite because adding one or both of the others soon results in the symptoms you describe, i.e., devices connected to these problemmatic satellites lose internet connectivity [my post from last summer].  I have also tried swapped satellites and verified it's not a specific RBS850 hardware issue.  I have tried different, further locations for the 2nd satellite and not found anywhere that resolves the problem.  I have also tried reducing the wifi power to 50% without success.

 

I have concluded that I can only run with 1 satellite, perhaps due to the size of my house.  How far apart are your satellites from the base RBR850?

Message 9 of 25
TackMan
Tutor

Re: Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?

Hi Mikey94025,

Thank you for posting, and the link to your thread.  That is exactly what I am seeing too.  It does sound like a firmware fix is needed.  Has NG made any comment?

Kind regards, TackMan

Message 10 of 25
TackMan
Tutor

Re: Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?

Hi All, just a quick update.  I have raised with NG support and it has been escalated.  Hopefully they will call me soon.

 

Unfortunately the issue impacts every device that connects to the satellite by WiFi.  At first it is OK, and then (based on pings) they cannot see the router (even though they have a strong wifi signal, and they did when they first connected.)

Message 11 of 25
TackMan
Tutor

Re: Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?

Hi Mikey94025, and Community,

 

My issue is resolved!! I wanted to share details to help others who may have the same issue.

 

Summary: IF you have a device connected to a satellite via WiFI AND wired ethernet connection, it will cause the other satellite on your network to misbehave (they provide good WiFi connection, but cannot pass traffic to the Router).

 

Solution: Disconnect the ethernet cable

 

In my case my MacBook Pro, was connected via WiFi, and also used an eithernet connection via a docking station when it was at my main desk.  This is why:-

- I could never replicate the issue on my MacBook, as I disconnected it from the docking station to go to the misbehaving satellite

- Swapping the satellites never helped, nor rebooting, nor resetting, nor repositioning the satellites etc etc.  The "good" satellite was alway the one with my MacBook pro connected and the "bad" satellite was the other one

 

It took me ages to find the issue, and it only struck me as I was trying to understand what was different between my 2 satellites.  I spent ages with support, who suggested I try many things, but all those failed, until I discovered this.  (I have asked the support team to flag the issue with their developers.)

 

Mikey94025, maybe this is what is causing your issue?

 

Kind regards, TackMan

Message 12 of 25
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?

So this one device was connect to the RBS via wireless and ethernet at the same time? 


@TackMan wrote:

 

My issue is resolved!! I wanted to share details to help others who may have the same issue.

 

Summary: IF you have a device connected to a satellite via WiFI AND wired ethernet connection, it will cause the other satellite on your network to misbehave (they provide good WiFi connection, but cannot pass traffic to the Router).

 

Solution: Disconnect the ethernet cable

 

In my case my MacBook Pro, was connected via WiFi, and also used an eithernet connection via a docking station when it was at my main desk.  This is why:-

- I could never replicate the issue on my MacBook, as I disconnected it from the docking station to go to the misbehaving satellite

- Swapping the satellites never helped, nor rebooting, nor resetting, nor repositioning the satellites etc etc.  The "good" satellite was alway the one with my MacBook pro connected and the "bad" satellite was the other one

 

It took me ages to find the issue, and it only struck me as I was trying to understand what was different between my 2 satellites.  I spent ages with support, who suggested I try many things, but all those failed, until I discovered this.  (I have asked the support team to flag the issue with their developers.)

 

Mikey94025, maybe this is what is causing your issue?

 

Kind regards, TackMan


 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.3.5(Router mode/LAG Disabled) & EX7700x2
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, CBR750, RBK953(v6.0.3.68) & XR450(v130), RBK853 v4.6.3.16(AP) & RBK752 v4.6.5.14, RBK50(v22), SXR30(v110), R7000(v34), R7800(v84), R7960P(v82), EX7500/EX7700, and WNHDE111
Message 13 of 25
TackMan
Tutor

Re: Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?

Hi FURRYe38,

 

Yes, this is a fairly standard thing to do on a Mac.  Mac OS supports it really well.

 

Kind regards,

 

Peter

Message 14 of 25
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?

Well actually networking standards is to only have 1 connection per device. I've always used 1 connected on my Macs at a time. Not both. 

Possible problem in that either Mac is causing problems with both connections being connected at the same time or Orbi doesn't support having two connections to 1 device at the same time. 

 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.3.5(Router mode/LAG Disabled) & EX7700x2
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, CBR750, RBK953(v6.0.3.68) & XR450(v130), RBK853 v4.6.3.16(AP) & RBK752 v4.6.5.14, RBK50(v22), SXR30(v110), R7000(v34), R7800(v84), R7960P(v82), EX7500/EX7700, and WNHDE111
Message 15 of 25
raven_au
Virtuoso

Re: Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?


@FURRYe38 wrote:

Well actually networking standards is to only have 1 connection per device. I've always used 1 connected on my Macs at a time. Not both. 

Possible problem in that either Mac is causing problems with both connections being connected at the same time or Orbi doesn't support having two connections to 1 device at the same time. 

 


Right, having two physical connections to a device is really bad, it can cause really odd problems with ARP address resolution on the local network and some services can get really confused by it.

 

NFS, for example (and possibly other network file systems), gets really confused by responses coming in on a different network interface to the one the it originated on.

Message 16 of 25
Mikey94025
Prodigy

Re: Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?


@TackMan wrote:

Hi Mikey94025, and Community,

 

My issue is resolved!! I wanted to share details to help others who may have the same issue.

 

Summary: IF you have a device connected to a satellite via WiFI AND wired ethernet connection, it will cause the other satellite on your network to misbehave (they provide good WiFi connection, but cannot pass traffic to the Router).


Hmmm, thanks for sharing this and I will certainly look into this diagnosis.  I do have both a macbook pro laptop (for work, connected to a dock like you) and a Windows desktop that occasionally connect both by Orbi wifi and also to a nearby satellite via wired LAN.  It's not often the case, because Windows reboot will disable multiple connections to the same network, but I occasionally reconnect the wifi adapter if I notice it.  Why?  Because I thought it might increase network speeds and because I thought it would give me backup remote access (if the satellite or wifi go down).  In short, I don't need the duplicate connectivity and can easily stop having both wifi and wired connected at the same time to a satellite.

 

This possible diagnosis would also explain why this one satellite has never showed this problem like my other 2 RBS850s (because it's the only satellite with wired devices connected to it).  I keep these two RBS850s off because of this issue.

 

I'll stop the second network connection and then see if I can still replicate the problem.  In the past, it usually took less than a day for the issue to appear.

Message 17 of 25
TackMan
Tutor

Re: Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?

Good luck Mickey94025.  Please let us know how it goes.

Message 18 of 25
Mikey94025
Prodigy

Re: Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?


@TackMan wrote:

Hi Mikey94025, and Community,

 

My issue is resolved!! I wanted to share details to help others who may have the same issue.

 

Summary: IF you have a device connected to a satellite via WiFI AND wired ethernet connection, it will cause the other satellite on your network to misbehave (they provide good WiFi connection, but cannot pass traffic to the Router).


Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be the root cause for my intermittent RBS850 network connectivity loss.  I made sure that my two computers were not connected by wired LAN and wifi at the same time by disconnecting their network cables and only using wifi.  I turned on my other 2 RBS850s and within 30min could reproduce loss of connectivity on my iPhone.  Unplugging the nearby satellite restored Internet immediately to my iPhone.

 

I even tried temporarily disconnecting all wired devices from my office satellite, but the problem still happened again.  So my problem is not caused by LAN connections (to the one working satellite).  It might be some wired/wireless thing with devices connected to the RBR850 base, but I'm not willing to waste more time right now on this.  I just keep the RBS850 satellites turned off right now and hope for someone else to figure it out and a future firmware fix.  :-)

 

Message 19 of 25
TackMan
Tutor

Re: Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?

Hi Mickey94025,

 

I am sorry to hear that.  Just one more thought.  Did you reboot the router after removing the ethernet cables?

 

Kind regards,

 

TackMan

Message 20 of 25
Mikey94025
Prodigy

Re: Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?


@TackMan wrote:

I am sorry to hear that.  Just one more thought.  Did you reboot the router after removing the ethernet cables?


Thanks for bringing that up!  No, I did not reboot my Orbi after disconnecting all my LAN devices from the satellite.  However, I tried that and it still did not resolve my internet disconnectivity problem.


I spent this afternoon experimenting with, and disconnecting, unusual aspects of my home network (I run several routers in parallel for my guest network and compatibility with problematic devices that don't like the Orbi AX, e.g., Nest, Roomba, MyQ).  After disconnecting my other routers and still having the issue, I finally put my cable modem into bridge mode and that solved it for me.  I know that Double NAT is not recommended, but I was using it anyways and ran my secondary routers in parallel to the Orbi AX to better isolate their networks.

 

So for my particular setup it turns out that Double NAT prevented me from running more than one RBS850 satellite or else the network would stop working within 30 min.  Note that this was true even with my secondary routers disconnected.  I'm running the recent Beta firmware, with the DNS fix, but this problem has existed for me since last summer so I've kept my extra 2 satellites power down.


I'll know for sure if everything continues to work over the next few days.  In the meantime, it's been hours and my RBR850 + 3 satellites are running fine (along with my other two routers now connected downstream of the bridged RBR850 instead of in parallel).

Message 21 of 25
titaniumrx8
Apprentice

Re: Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?

@mikey
"problematic devices that don't like the Orbi AX, e.g., Nest, Roomba, MyQ"

I use Nest and MyQ with AX without any issues. For some reason the MyQ only connects to the router instead of a closer satellite but the connection is very stable and latency is excellent. The MyQ is on 2.4 and the Nest is on 5.
Message 22 of 25
Mikey94025
Prodigy

Re: Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?


@Mikey94025 wrote:

So for my particular setup it turns out that Double NAT prevented me from running more than one RBS850 satellite or else the network would stop working within 30 min.  Note that this was true even with my secondary routers disconnected.  I'm running the recent Beta firmware, with the DNS fix, but this problem has existed for me since last summer so I've kept my extra 2 satellites power down.


No, this was not the (sole) reason for my disconnecting internet problems when running more than 1 RBS850.  Today my network went down a couple times and each time, was restored as soon as powering off one of the extra satellites.  They had nothing connected by wired LAN, only wireless clients.  Oh well, I'm back to running just one satellite.

Message 23 of 25
TackMan
Tutor

Re: Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?

Very sorry that what looked like the solution slipped away.  Unfortunatley I am out of ideas -- and your technical knowledge on network sounds like it is much better than mine!  I hope you find a solution, without having to spend too many hours.

Message 24 of 25
gaerg897
Aspirant

Re: Laptop and PC refuse to connect to satellite, but can connect to Router -- advice?

I am looking to see the complete details because my mobile is connecting with the satellite but laptop is having some issue pleasehelp me to solve the issue.

Message 25 of 25
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