I also have a second thermostat which does not seem to have this issue, it is a different model and in a different location so I'm fairly sure its not a cloud service issue. No this isn't a cloud issue more or less a device handling issue with signals. Two different things here.
I only have two SSID's one for the main network and one for the guest. How could the satellite have a different SSID than the router. Why when I turn the Satellite off and it switches to the router it works totally fine? So the RBS is not using the same SSID name as whats coming from the RBR? Have you factory reset the RBS and re-synced the RBS to the RBR wirelessly while in same room as the RBR with the RBR then checked the RBS web page for same SSID name configuration?
And its coincidence that it worked fine up until the firmware update? Especially with all of the reports of wifi connectivity issues. Why are these problems never Netgear's? I now know multiple people who have abandoned their Oribis and switched to a different solution because of issues like this. Might be time to join them. I don't have this brand of controller, Just two NEST and have not seen any issues with these on my 7 series Orbi.
How are end users supposed to have any confidence in the product when the releases are plagued with bugs and problems. Heck they couldn't even catch a blatant issue with the mobile app. How do you miss a missing icon and an improper icon(referring to teh mobile app)? NG is aware of the issue. No idea when it will be fixed. Hopefully next app release or something they can fix on there side with out any updating. Will have to be patient.
Re: New - RBR750 / RBS750 Firmware Version 4.6.7.13 Released
I also have a second thermostat which does not seem to have this issue, it is a different model and in a different location so I'm fairly sure its not a cloud service issue.No this isn't a cloud issue more or less a device handling issue with signals. Two different things here.
Tim- They are both Nests , one is a Nest E (problematic one) and the other a Pro NLT.
I only have two SSID's one for the main network and one for the guest. How could the satellite have a different SSID than the router. Why when I turn the Satellite off and it switches to the router it works totally fine? So the RBS is not using the same SSID name as whats coming from the RBR?Have you factory reset the RBS and re-synced the RBS to the RBR wirelessly while in same room as the RBR with the RBR then checked the RBS web page for same SSID name configuration?
TIm- Yes I mentioned that in a previous thread. It was then suggested to reduce power on the router which I did yesterday. If the satellite had a different SSID how would the thermostat or other devices be able to connect to it or is the Netgear interface lying about where its connected to.
And its coincidence that it worked fine up until the firmware update? Especially with all of the reports of wifi connectivity issues. Why are these problems never Netgear's? I now know multiple people who have abandoned their Oribis and switched to a different solution because of issues like this. Might be time to join them.I don't have this brand of controller, Just two NEST and have not seen any issues with these on my 7 series Orbi.
TIm- Brand of what controller? I have an RBK 752 with two Nest thermostats and two Protects.
How are end users supposed to have any confidence in the product when the releases are plagued with bugs and problems. Heck they couldn't even catch a blatant issue with the mobile app. How do you miss a missing icon and an improper icon(referring to the mobile app)?
Well I either need to downgrade firmware of just shut the Satellite off. Reducing power did not help. As soon as the the thermostat jumped onto the satellite its showing offline in both the web portal and the mobile app.
Re: New - RBR750 / RBS750 Firmware Version 4.6.7.13 Released
Yes, I believe I previously stated that if I turn off the RBS and the thermostat is forced to jump over to the router it comes back online almost immediately.
Hard to determine if its the Nest or the Satellite but this only started happening after the last firmware update. And there is now of knowing what Netgear 'fixed' in the latest release.
So much time wasted on this already. I get decent coverage with just router and the most critical would be my wife's work computer which is right above the router and connects at over a gig so I'll probably just decommission the satellite call it a day and look for a more robust solution.
Re: New - RBR750 / RBS750 Firmware Version 4.6.7.13 Released
This will be problematic for the controller if it's in between the RBR and RBS and the distance is about the same from the controller to the RBR or RBS. You'll need to move the RBS closer to the RBS then turn down the RBRs transmit power in hopes that the controller connects to the RBS. Again this is a controller issue with it handling different signals and preferring to connect to the RBS.
Another possibility is that the RBS is not in a good state. Thus something on the RBS maybe wrong. A full re-load of the RBS firmware, factory reset, remove the RBS from the RBS web page and setup and resync of the RBS while in same room may help with this, then place back in remote location.
Why not revert back to FW that was working for you as well.
Can you draw up a floor diagram of where you have the RBR, RBS and these controllers at and give the distances?
My issue does't really lie with whether the device connects to the satellite or the router. My issue is why when its connected to the satellite does it go offline and immediately come back to life when the satellite is removed from the picture and it jumps over to the router. My satellite is about 30 or so feet from the router however the thermostat is pretty much halfway between the router and the satellite.
Re: New - RBR750 / RBS750 Firmware Version 4.6.7.13 Released
This will be problematic for the controller if it's in between the RBR and RBS and the distance is about the same from the controller to the RBR or RBS. You'll need to move the RBS closer to the RBS then turn down the RBRs transmit power in hopes that the controller connects to the RBS. Again this is a controller issue with it handling different signals and preferring to connect to the RBS.
Why has it worked for all this time and then after a firmware update its now a problem?
Another possibility is that the RBS is not in a good state. Thus something on the RBS maybe wrong. A full re-load of the RBS firmware, factory reset, remove the RBS from the RBS web page and setup and resync of the RBS while in same room may help with this, then place back in remote location.
Already tried this.
Why not revert back to FW that was working for you as well.
I mentioned that as well.
Can you draw up a floor diagram of where you have the RBR, RBS and these controllers at and give the distances?
Already gave approximate distances in previous post.
How big is your home? Sq Ft?
Approximately 2000 SqFt.
I've given up on the issue. I've lost way too much time in my life on this. It's extremely frustrating to pay the kind of money that is being charged for these devices to have the amount of problems they do. Look at this entire forum its all about problems that people are having with these devices. I surely don't see many positive posts regarding these products.
For now I've decommissioned the satellite and am only running the router.
I am curious about one other thing:
What does Netgear give you that you defend them so much?
And again I reiterate how can you trust what's being released when they can't even catch a blatant bug in the app with a totally missing device icon. It probably does't affect functionality but it sure doesn't promote confidence in their abilites.
Re: New - RBR750 / RBS750 Firmware Version 4.6.7.13 Released
Not meaning to be a gratuitous contrarian, but I have 7 Nest learning thermostats (3rd gen) connecting without interruption through an RBR750 and 2 RBS750s running 4.6.7.13 – 4 on the router (2 each with 2.4GHz and 5GHz connections) and 2 on one satellite (both 2.4GHz connections) and 1 (5GHz connection) on the other. No problems so far. Empathy for all who have had technical gremlins!
Re: New - RBR750 / RBS750 Firmware Version 4.6.7.13 Released
Thanks but unhelpful for me. It's like comparing two people that have the same cars and one has nothing but problems with it and the other doesn't.
It seems the product is getting worse the more 'fixes' they make. When I originally set up the system two years ago from my recollection I don't remember having any of these issues. Now I seem to have joined the crowd with the problems(seems to be the majority).
I tried an EERO and that couldn't outperform my Airport Extremes. I'm half tempted to fire them back up. I'll take stability and consistency over having a little more speed.
This will be problematic for the controller if it's in between the RBR and RBS and the distance is about the same from the controller to the RBR or RBS. You'll need to move the RBS closer to the RBS then turn down the RBRs transmit power in hopes that the controller connects to the RBS. Again this is a controller issue with it handling different signals and preferring to connect to the RBS.
Why has it worked for all this time and then after a firmware update its now a problem?
Possible NEST could have changed something on there side as well.
Another possibility is that the RBS is not in a good state. Thus something on the RBS maybe wrong. A full re-load of the RBS firmware, factory reset, remove the RBS from the RBS web page and setup and resync of the RBS while in same room may help with this, then place back in remote location.
Already tried this.
Why not revert back to FW that was working for you as well.
I mentioned that as well.
Can you draw up a floor diagram of where you have the RBR, RBS and these controllers at and give the distances?
Already gave approximate distances in previous post. More accurate distanced would be preferred.
How big is your home? Sq Ft?
Approximately 2000 SqFt.
For this size of home, just the RBR is enough to cover so having the RBS and such in this size of home and the controller in between will be problematic at best. The RBS would not really be needed. This is NOT the first time NEST controllers have causes problems with Orbi. Again this is a handling on the devices side.
I've given up on the issue. I've lost way too much time in my life on this. It's extremely frustrating to pay the kind of money that is being charged for these devices to have the amount of problems they do. Look at this entire forum its all about problems that people are having with these devices. I surely don't see many positive posts regarding these products.
For now I've decommissioned the satellite and am only running the router.
I am curious about one other thing:
What does Netgear give you that you defend them so much? This is not a defensive thing. I've already troubleshot this with a NG engineer two years ago and spent time with collecting logs and trying different configurations. Some of this was dealt with by NG and also GOOGLE/NEST was involved as well possible NEST has done something as well on there side.
And again I reiterate how can you trust what's being released when they can't even catch a blatant bug in the app with a totally missing device icon. It probably does't affect functionality but it sure doesn't promote confidence in their abilites. IMO, this isn't a FW bug, rather a environment and configuration issue. Again your size of home and placement of the controllers and RBS is playing a roll in what your having problems with. I see others are not having issues with there NEST controllers. So this mostly pointed to your environment and conditions and not being a bug.
Re: New - RBR750 / RBS750 Firmware Version 4.6.7.13 Released
Like most forums, people usually post when requiring help or are having problems. Rare to go to a forum where people are posting just to say "hey, all is well". Its like going to a hospital and saying "why is it always full of sick people".
So just to add my Nest Gen 3 has been fine with the RBK752 on this firmware and past beta firmware.
I haven't posted recently but I have been reading some of the replies where people have had certain problems, with updating the firmware, and I feel for the OP because literally people just do not read instructions. They then complain. Then guess what, when following the steps properly it works. So frustrating to see.
Re: New - RBR750 / RBS750 Firmware Version 4.6.7.13 Released
Thanks but just making the marketing research/data analytics point that it's not correct to assume that everyone is experiencing problems based on the very limited sample of an internet support forum. To a nurse in a hospital, everybody's sick. Jimbo84's correct.
As has been mentioned, there are many causes and contributors to internet performance:
Orbi hardware performance by Netgear
Orbi firmware quality/performance by Netgear
Orbi firmware setup/configuration by consumer
Connected device hardware and firmware/operating system by manufacturer and setup/configuration by consumer
Environment – consumer placement and connection of router/satellites, interference from walls or unrelated electronic devices relative to connected devices, and placement of connected devices
Internet service provider software, hardware, "signal" quality/performance/existence, setup/configuration by consumer
Stuff I've forgotten
Surely there are improvements possible in all firmware/operating systems and I'm not suggesting that 4.6.7.13 is in any way perfect (I have my own squawk list of desired tweaks.) I do have two separate RBR750 / RBS750 systems in two houses, each with two satellites, and installed 4.6.7.13 the day it was released, and have had good luck with both. And my wife is pleased, which is the ultimate test, believe me. Good luck to all resolving issues as quickly as possible.
Re: New - RBR750 / RBS750 Firmware Version 4.6.7.13 Released
Sounds defensive and deflecting from Netgear again.
Examples:
1. Possible NEST could have changed something on there side as well.
2. This is NOT the first time NEST controllers have causes problems with Orbi
3.IMO, this isn't a FW bug, rather a environment and configuration issue. Again your size of home and placement of the controllers and RBS is playing a roll in what your having problems with. I see others are not having issues with there NEST controllers. So this mostly pointed to your environment and conditions and not being a bug.
Number 1. How did Nest change something? Last firmware update was 11/2/2021?
Number 2. How about this in not the first time we have seen problems with Nest thermostats on an Orbi system?
Number 3. My environment hasn't changed. I've seen one or two posts in this thread doesn't mean others aren't having a problem and just haven't noticed it or haven't upgraded firmware. Are you a Wifi engineer?
Agreed that the satellite may be overkill for the square footage but it is a two story house. It's sold as a "Whole home mesh system" with coverage up to 5000 sq ft. Well I am in the up to 5000 sq. ft. so that really shouldn't be a problem. And if it is then Netgear should let you purchase just the router.
Try to take off the Netgear glasses and look at this logically to what has changed most recently and that is the Netgear firmware.
The last firmware update on for the thermostat was 11/2/2021. So Nest put a 5 month orbi wifi bug in their firmware?
There have been NO changes in my environment other than upgrading firmware.
How can you without a doubt guarantee that there is possibly not an issue introduced? Netgear does not have a great track record with their releases?
Re: New - RBR750 / RBS750 Firmware Version 4.6.7.13 Released
I am truly not trying to be confrontational ,demeaning or belittling and I know that Furry is trying to be helpful but I just see the same genertic responses; reboot, reload defaults and reload setup.
It has to be something on your end there's no way it could be Netgear's problem. It's as bad as dealing with Comcast, while I understand that in a few cases that a reboot may resolve the issue they are not generally the answer. Restoring factory defaults to me is somewhat of a catastrophic process and should not be an acceptable solution after a firmware update. If it is then it should be detailed as the process and there should not be an automated firmware update process.
I got the same initial response when I reported the issue with the missing icon in the app. Luckily I was able to get reconnected after I deleted and reinstalled the app. This is a little off topic but I'm trying to point out the generic responses.
I would say that most people come to the forum for answers because most are tech savvy enough to have tried the initial steps.
Re: New - RBR750 / RBS750 Firmware Version 4.6.7.13 Released
Totally agree here. Users seem to always point to a FW issue and always think that it's FW and everyone is having problems and it's a bug that needs to be fix. Not always the case. There are too many variables in different users households and configurations to just point to FW. Why we are here to help really narrow down and find out, and as best as we can, figure out where the real problem is. Most of the time its not FW related, regardless of track record. Though since V4 first appeared, these were horrible to say the least.
Last two FW versions has been WAY better and working well on both of my 7 and 8 series. Even with my NEST controllers. Been nice not to have to go and figure out why the controller has low battery and have to recharge it.
Also for those who have NEST controllers and having low battery problems, with any wifi system, you may want to look into connecting the controller to a power source on the home heating and AC system. Some home systems support this additional power wire that NEST also supports. So there is a fix for this IF and when NEST controllers are having problems with wifi systems and getting low battery messages. Again, I have not seen this low battery since later v4 FW versions appeared. Mostly was problematic on v3.
Orbi since it's first release years ago has been interesting and frustrating of course. It's a complex thing. We have made NG aware of various things we see and what users see as well. WIP.
Thanks but just making the marketing research/data analytics point that it's not correct to assume that everyone is experiencing problems based on the very limited sample of an internet support forum. To a nurse in a hospital, everybody's sick. Jimbo84's correct.
As has been mentioned, there are many causes and contributors to internet performance:
Orbi hardware performance by Netgear
Orbi firmware quality/performance by Netgear
Orbi firmware setup/configuration by consumer
Connected device hardware and firmware/operating system by manufacturer and setup/configuration by consumer
Environment – consumer placement and connection of router/satellites, interference from walls or unrelated electronic devices relative to connected devices, and placement of connected devices
Internet service provider software, hardware, "signal" quality/performance/existence, setup/configuration by consumer
Stuff I've forgotten
Surely there are improvements possible in all firmware/operating systems and I'm not suggesting that 4.6.7.13 is in any way perfect (I have my own squawk list of desired tweaks.) I do have two separate RBR750 / RBS750 systems in two houses, each with two satellites, and installed 4.6.7.13 the day it was released, and have had good luck with both. And my wife is pleased, which is the ultimate test, believe me. Good luck to all resolving issues as quickly as possible.
Re: New - RBR750 / RBS750 Firmware Version 4.6.7.13 Released
If you do not have common wire connected to your Nest chances are high you will have issues charging as the battery ages, especially if the system does not run a lot and it can not draw the charging current through the contact closure. It seems that the 'power stealing' doesn't provide enough current to charge it if its idle for long periods. I have had my go rounds with this as well. I had a thermostat work for about two years without a C wire and one day it decided that it couldn't charge anymore without a common. Until I could connect a common I connected a 5 watt 220 ohm resistor between the C and W1 terminals but I used an extra set of contacts on my heater controller to pull the resistor out of circuit when the heat ran because even with a 5 watt resistor I dint' like how warm it was getting.
I am talking about devices that are disconnecting from the network after a firmware update that didn't previously have any connectivity issues. This is not isolated to Nest devices. I understand that just because I am experiencing an issue it does not constitute a bug which is of the reasons for posting/looking was to see if others were experiencing an issue but it does not mean that there was not something introduced that in my specific configuration didn't have and adverse affect. As you say it is very complex, a work in progress and there are many different variables.
And you can not just dismiss track record. I've been in the software industry for quite some time and if you release a bad product with bugs it takes a very, very, very long time to build confidence. Once someone lies to you how long does it take for you to trust them again.
Re: New - RBR750 / RBS750 Firmware Version 4.6.7.13 Released
My 2nd gen NEST was installed 2014 and has never had a battery issue ever and still on it's stock battery. Only when I had to change out a different 2nd gen NEST to a 3rd gen is when low battery issues started. I've changed out the battery in this 3rd gen about 2 times now since it was installed. Since recent v4 FW versions have been out, 3rd gen NEST has been stable with out any low battery messages.
Yes, systems that run regularly may never experience a problem. My one system is heat only and does not run much because in the winter we burn a wood stove. If it ran for 20 minutes once every two weeks that would have be a lot. I've had many conversations with Nest Pro support and Nest Pro installers and they confirmed they see issues with systems that do not run much as the batteries age. The pulsing of the output to close either the Y or W1 contact eventually does not supply enough current to charge the thermostat. Nest will eventually shut the wifi radio off to preserve battery life.
My other system has always had a common, now they both do.
Yes, I have tried the suggestions you made and they have failed. The only thing that has worked is to shut down the satellite.
As you seem to represent Netgear why don't they sell a router only why do they force you to buy extra unnecessary hardware?
Any chance Netgear will credit the price of a Satellite because it is unnecessary? I'll gladly ship mine back as it is no longer in use.
This is easy it's because they are a hardware company and want to sell hardware. Software/firmware is a necessary evil for them to be able to sell hardware.
And I'm surely not paying Netgear to open a support ticket, generally first and second tier support is absolutely worthless. I can't believe all of the time in my life I'll never get back over this issue.It's partially my fault for spending time on this forum.
Re: New - RBR750 / RBS750 Firmware Version 4.6.7.13 Released
Regarding Nest thermostats dropping their wifi connection to conserve power....as noted, I have seven Nest thermostats connected to Orbis which were experiencing the same thing (in the winter when heat is rarely triggered, if that mattered). The battery voltage is easily tracked via the Nest app. I never thought that this was an issue related to the Nest or Orbi firmware. I finally bit the bullet last October and installed common wires to all but one of the thermostats to help recharge the batteries. They have been reliably connected since, including since the installation of 4.6.7.13.
Re: New - RBR750 / RBS750 Firmware Version 4.6.7.13 Released
Understand. All I'm saying is that if the controller had been working on prior version of FW, then as a last resort, revert and see. Any to help you maintain and keep the Orbi doing. Not trying to give up here.
Line of sight thermostat to router 17-18', some walls in between with open doorways. Thermostat to satellite, line of site 16' + 6' of elevation from height of thermostat mounted on wall to height of satellite sitting on stand upstairs.
