Reply

Re: Orbi 750 and 2.4gHz SSID

TexARC
Guide

Re: Orbi 750 and 2.4gHz SSID

Thanks for the tip on channels. That makes sense.  Unfortunately Amazon screwed me on delivery, now the other router won't arrive for two or more days.  It's the worst thing about Amazon. I could have bought another/same router this evening on the way home for work, instead I trusted their message that it would be delivered by 10pm, thereby giving me the 4 day weekend to get it installed and all the other devices paired up. Instead at 8pm I get a SORRY message from them.  <argh>

 

Thanks, Ron
Message 26 of 42
vajim
Master

Re: Orbi 750 and 2.4gHz SSID

I'm sorry I couldn't be more helpful.  

 

I'm not sure I understand your plan or reasoning of going after another router, but then again, there's many home networks on this community that I don't understand.  I'm sure the Tenda extender would have fixed your problem long ago for a lot cheaper than a new router.

 

I do understand your feelings for the WU badge, I have the same.

Good luck, take care and Happy Thanksgiving.

 

Message 27 of 42
Nnyan
Tutor

Re: Orbi 750 and 2.4gHz SSID

I had the same problem with my Tempest and the pool equiptment.  I tried everything to no avail.  I ended up getting a TP-LINK CPE510 outdoor unit and the problem was instantly solved.  They come in 2.4 and 5Ghz units.  The bonus to it was that they have some pretty wicked range so I did not have to mount them to the part of the house that was closest to the devices i wanted to connect (and have to run a cable all that way).  I have mine mounted on the second floor roofline (next to my office where the MPOE is).  I was even able to help my neighbor get his pool equipment setup since he did not have wifi that could reach it!

Xfinity Gigabit: Advanced Gateway XB7-T (Bridge Mode) > Orbi RBK753 > Palo Alto PA-220
Message 28 of 42
Mstrbig
Master

Re: Orbi 750 and 2.4gHz SSID

We've had great luck with the TP-Link CPE-710. The Azimuth is 7° and the Elevation is 9°, but the distance factor is incredible if you have a pool, building, barn, shed, etc. way back on the property.

Orbi RBK53 System/RBR50/RBS50/RBS50. + Orbi Voice RBS40V
RBK753 system/RBR750/RBS750/RBS750 + RBK853 System/RBR850/RBS850/RBS850
SXK80 — Orbi Pro AX6000 WiFi 6 Tri-Band WiFi System
There's always a logical answer, if you have all the facts!
Message 29 of 42
Nnyan
Tutor

Re: Orbi 750 and 2.4gHz SSID

At the time I ordered it getting the 710 would have taken a few extra weeks to get to me (and it was over kill to connect a few devices to) but definately much cooler looking then the 510s and cost delta was minimal.

Xfinity Gigabit: Advanced Gateway XB7-T (Bridge Mode) > Orbi RBK753 > Palo Alto PA-220
Message 30 of 42
TexARC
Guide

Re: Orbi 750 and 2.4gHz SSID

After re-reading the threads this morning, it occurred to me that the Tenda mentioned was similar to an old Netgear extender I had in my garage.  It took a lot of digging through boxes of "retired" gear but I found it.  I had set the Orbi encryption to "WPA-PSK [TKIP] + WPA2-PSK [AES]", so after a factory reset, pressing the WPS button on the extender, and the "Sync" button on the Orbi base it attached ok.  Connected my phone to the _2GEXT wifi, and got a decent speedtest.net out of it, so then I went to the Ambient Weather terminal (itsa 1002, btw).   Took three attempts with a long, long pw, but it eventually connected, and I'm back online with it.  Yay!   The reason for another distribution system for 2.4gHz is as I listed, I have a variety of devices which require that signal, distributed throughout my house and property.  The house is constructed of concrete blocks filled with rebar and concrete, coated with concrete stucco  on steel mesh, for three stories.  So it is very wifi unfriendly and the extender just isn't strong enough.  Fortunately my transition from X10 throughout to Homeseer & Z-Wave is working well and that's what made me think I wanted to go with a wifi mesh system.  I just didn't expect Netgear would make the 2.4 so difficult(impossible) to access in the Orbi.  I wonder why they did that?  I'm very thankful to y'all for your help and suggestions!  Lakehouse Weather Station 

Thanks, Ron
Message 31 of 42
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi 750 and 2.4gHz SSID

I would surmise that some of your issues are in the building material of your home. Concrete and steel will inhibity wifi travel. Also the 2.4Ghz issue is problably your weather station not having more compatible FW to work or see the wifi signal coming from the newer Orbi wifi system. I would recommend you check out what MrBig mentioned to see if there is any kind of updates for your device that may help with it. Otherwise, seems like you have it working with the alternative wifi solution. Glad it works. 

Mark your thread as solved so others will know. 

 

Enjoy. 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM2000 Modem | Wifi Router RAXE50 and R8500(v.158) Router Mode | Switches NG GS105/8 | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700, GS308v3

Message 32 of 42
vajim
Master

Re: Orbi 750 and 2.4gHz SSID

Nice work Ron.

 

I'm glad you got it working.  Your WU page looks good to go.

 

Here's mine:  https://www.wunderground.com/weather/us/va/virginia-beach/KVAVIRGI10

 

As you may have noticed, others here, as helpful as they may try, just haven't expereinced the weather station bug.  Your Ambient knew what it wanted while all other suggestions missed the mark.

 

Cheers

Message 33 of 42
schumaku
Guru

Re: Orbi 750 and 2.4gHz SSID


@TexARC wrote:

I just didn't expect Netgear would make the 2.4 so difficult(impossible) to access in the Orbi.  I wonder why they did that? 

.

Here again, Netgear did not do anything difficult or impossible. All the Netgear Mesh as well as the small business systems supporting whatever the marketing people named SmartConnect or Mesh, WiFi 6, ... is IEEE standards compliant, and does support 5 GHz- as well as 2.4 GHz-only devices. 

 

It happened to other vendors: Certain WiFi clients - even from major vendors like Intel - had compatibility issues. Being with 802.11ax (WiFi 6) capable radios, being with access points sending out extended RRM information according to 802.11k, 802.11r, and 802.11v - these are what makes up a "Mesh" system. Popular example are Intel wireless adapters with old/outdated drivers - even the latest pre 802.11ax - failed to see the WiFi 6 SSIDs on air, or struggled to connect to these access points.

 

Fall-back to comparably basic access points/extenders/repeaters as suggested in this thread is certainly not a solution - it's a workaround only. A workaround for ignorant IoJ makers (hey one weather station maker even sent such a device to a customer in this thread...) which fail to keep their IoJ up2date and compliant to new and extended standards, while other fail to provide discovery Apps trying to "detect" new IoJ devices (all connecting to the very same L2 network!) and still requiring to "switch off 5 GHz" or "connect to the 2.4GHz wireless first" and the like.

 

The problem does go ways beyond of the initial IoJ discovery. In a Mesh environment, additional APs can become available at any time adding coverage to the SSID Mesh, offering much better signal level for the wireless clients. Because these IoJ device WiFi clients are much to cheap, they won't take care about the neighbourhood information distributed offering alternate APs on air, they won't automatically re-iterate the situation, they won't re-associate to better AP.

 

With a mobile device like an old tablet or notebook which does come and go to the network this isn't a big issue - it will most likely re-associate to the temporarily best radio on every reconnection. More static infrastructure devices like smart lights (switches, bulbs, ...) or e.g. wireless printers/scanners it's becoming much more critical. These devices will remain up 24*7, except of a power failure virtually never - so these IoJ will never re-associate and take any advantage of the Mesh system.

 

It was proposed before that there is no other way to make the vendors of these devices aware of their incompatible IoJ.

 

Enough said for now.

 

 

Message 34 of 42
vajim
Master

Re: Orbi 750 and 2.4gHz SSID

Nice

 

This may be filed in the "I didn't research the Mesh system before purchase"

Happens to the best of us.

 

 

The pain is real for those who have experienced this example.  Like what I used to ask my kids..."what did you learn from your mistakes".  

Message 35 of 42
schumaku
Guru

Re: Orbi 750 and 2.4gHz SSID

The mistake isn't in the Mesh and/or the WiFi 6 system evalutaion. The problem is in the many IoJ WiFi enabled devices out there which are not properly maintained.

Message 36 of 42
vajim
Master

Re: Orbi 750 and 2.4gHz SSID

Yup that's pretty much what I said.  There is of course the responsibility of the consumer to understand the purchase.  

The part about the lack of standard from the vendor, is in itself another discussion. For the record, several years ago when I first dealt with the Orbi Mesh, I had a few vendors express their lack of Mesh knowledge.  Sigh.....they'll come around.

 

Cheers 

Message 37 of 42
TexARC
Guide

Re: Orbi 750 and 2.4gHz SSID


@vajim wrote:

Yup that's pretty much what I said.

So I read you saying that this is my fault for being naive/ill-informed/stupid, or else the fault of the manufacturers of other hardware that rely on the improved distance of 2.4gHz compared to 5 gHz....  Awhile back I bought two Netgear EX7500 WiFi described-as- MESH extenders online.  They worked perfectly with my C7000 cable modem, expanding the perceived SSID to a greater ranger in my home. So a much better solution than extenders that create different SSIDs.   But I then discovered the C7000 wasn't providing adequate throughput and in working with Netgear tech support (painfully) no joy.  So this por' ol' dumb pharmacist was stupid enough to figure the latest Orbi from Netgear which uses "MESH" technology would be like the C7000 + Netgear MESH extenders as far as wifi - 2.4gHz and 5gHz - but with better bandwidth.   Your very elegant distraction from the fact that Netgear decided to NOT support legacy hardware, your choosing instead blame all the people like me inferring we are too stupid, who bought said hardware "back when it was the best" or else the manufacturers of that equipment who relied on a standard of the time to be "there" does not refute the facts I am experiencing and is certainly not deserving of a kudo IMHO.   You can bet I do a better job as a pharmacist than you are doing helping people on this particular topic/product.  I'll ditch the Orbi and find a TP-Link product that supports legacy hardware without the 'tude. 

 

Thanks, Ron
Message 38 of 42
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi 750 and 2.4gHz SSID

As mentioned earlier by MrBig, there maybe problems with the devies FW that your using that may be the main cause of problems when it's working with Orbi. There are many different wifi mfrs and wifi drivers that may or may not be fully tested out with wifi MESH systems like Orbi systems. Over all it's up to the mfr of these client devices to develop and test out there products with Mfr wifi systems. No weather they choose to do this or not, I guess its up to them. There are global wifi standards that are put forth and most major client device mfrs all seem to keep to this, however being said, there are some complex designes and configurations and such that go in to wifi drivers that may be pushing the boundries or on the other had, may not fully include some devices that may not, in there own coding and development may support new kinds of drivers and code. And with WiFI 6E as the next level for wifi thats looming supposedtly next year, I get some of these client devices may have same problem going forward. 

 

So it's up to the Mfr to make sure there products work on wifi systesm, however they may not choose to do this or be aware of it or maybe they feel otherwise. Again, it's up to them since its there product. NG and other wifi Mfrs just provide the platform for things to connect to. 

 

Hopefully you can find something that works. I would check out ASUS or D-Link or Linksys for other MESH system alternatives. I can't recommend TP-Link. 

 

Good Luck. 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM2000 Modem | Wifi Router RAXE50 and R8500(v.158) Router Mode | Switches NG GS105/8 | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700, GS308v3

Message 39 of 42
vajim
Master

Re: Orbi 750 and 2.4gHz SSID


@TexARC wrote:

@vajim wrote:

Yup that's pretty much what I said.

So I read you saying that this is my fault for being naive/ill-informed/stupid, or else the fault of the manufacturers of other hardware that rely on the improved distance of 2.4gHz compared to 5 gHz....  Awhile back I bought two Netgear EX7500 WiFi described-as- MESH extenders online.  They worked perfectly with my C7000 cable modem, expanding the perceived SSID to a greater ranger in my home. So a much better solution than extenders that create different SSIDs.   But I then discovered the C7000 wasn't providing adequate throughput and in working with Netgear tech support (painfully) no joy.  So this por' ol' dumb pharmacist was stupid enough to figure the latest Orbi from Netgear which uses "MESH" technology would be like the C7000 + Netgear MESH extenders as far as wifi - 2.4gHz and 5gHz - but with better bandwidth.   Your very elegant distraction from the fact that Netgear decided to NOT support legacy hardware, your choosing instead blame all the people like me inferring we are too stupid, who bought said hardware "back when it was the best" or else the manufacturers of that equipment who relied on a standard of the time to be "there" does not refute the facts I am experiencing and is certainly not deserving of a kudo IMHO.   You can bet I do a better job as a pharmacist than you are doing helping people on this particular topic/product.  I'll ditch the Orbi and find a TP-Link product that supports legacy hardware without the 'tude. 

OMG.....Ron you're reading me wrong.  OK...so you did know and understand all there is to know about the Mesh system.  Relax.  If it'll make you feel any better, I walked in your shoes.  I too bought the Orbi Mesh system and perhaps didn't do MY homework and ended up back at that point of turning the power down on the 5g and then Lacrosse offered the Tenda.  End of story.

 

In here I offered my experience.  The recent follow on posts were possibly bringing forth the situation where you were like me (I never did mention you by name...did I ?)  I actually felt a connection to you because of the weather station. 

 

Based on the kudos your response has generated, the sharks have come to feast.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

Message 40 of 42
TexARC
Guide

Re: Orbi 750 and 2.4gHz SSID


@FURRYe38 wrote:

"So it's up to the Mfr to make sure there products work on wifi systesm, however they may not choose to do this or be aware of it or maybe they feel otherwise. Again, it's up to them since its there product. NG and other wifi Mfrs just provide the platform for things to connect to. "
One may also observe that it is within the realm of responsibility that NG insures their equipment work on an extremely broadly-installed and widely extant 2.4gHz-based system topology or else put it in writing that the non-expert but experienced consumer can find and read.  There is NOT ONE ORBI-based solution to my initial problem in this entire thread which worked and you  certainly did not profer a way to enable the Ambient Weather Station, 6  Nest cams, 3 Sensibo, one SENSE, nor the several other brand of IP cams I own, all relying on 2.4gHz to succesfully attach to the net via Orbi.  ALL of these manufacturers are to blame in your scheme and I cannot accept that as a rational argument.  I don't necessarily LIKE some of those mfrs (Nest, for example, is terrible in their network registration restrictions), but I've used Netgear and relied on it particularly for so long, only to drop more than $500 for something where y'all are telling me, "hey, you should've known better."   OK.  A hard lesson learned by me and rest assured if you came to me for a prescription I wouldn't adopt such an attitude.  I'm not a newbie to tech by any stretch, and this facet of Orbi is definitely a "gotcha".  

Thanks, Ron
Message 41 of 42
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi 750 and 2.4gHz SSID

Maybe a hard lession however I'm not trying to point out any short comings you may or may not have. I'm trying to let you know that in the broad scheme of things with the thousands of wireless devices out there, that it is the responsibility of those Mfrs to ensure "there" products works to wifi specifications. It's kind of hard to point all of your problems to router mfrs if most of your devices DO work with any particular wifi system yet some do not. Why do some work and some do not? Why do we always have to point to the wifi mfr as the culprit when most of the time it is NOT. 

 

I to have NEST controllers, D-Link cameras, Echo Dots and other devices. I haven't much problem with Orbi AX and these devices sans the NEST. Yes I'm working with NG right now on trying to find out why NEST controllers disconnect and can't reconnect for unknown reasons and during the NEST attempts to reconnect, there batterys are draing causing users having to re-charge and reconnect the controllers. Some thing that we don't see on Orbi AC however Orbi AX seems to have this problem with NEST. It would have been nice to NEST would also step up and work with NG on this as well. I don't know if they have or not. I have seen some different behaviors since this all started and NEST seems to stop attemping to reconnect after a short period of time thus no draining the battery, so someone did something with NEST at some level. 

 

Otherwise most of what I have experienced since getting Orbi AX has been farily good. And working with NG shows me as well they are willing to review issues to see if they are being responsible in part to see if they can correct problems. Why I reached out to NG about the NEST issue. I also reached out to Google NEST as well and have not seen any responce directly.

 

I'm no spring chicken either in the tech industry. 

 

I agree that there is a certain level of responsbility for wifi router mfrs to ensure things work for the most part. However again, when it comes to client side HW, it's also the client side Mfrs responsibility as well. Plain and simple. Kind of hard to place full responsbility on wifi router mfrs to test thousands and thousands of all different kinds of wifi devices on a wifi system. I presume there maybe some level of HW vs router system testing and probably mostly major kinds of devices, phones, pads, cameras, streamers maybe. Mostly commonly daily used items. Less common or specialized devices probably no so much or at all would be tested. However, don't know what wifi router mfrs do so this is all speculation based on my own experiences. 

 

So take it for what you will. Seems like you need to find a working solution for your weather device. I would also check into there product having FW issues with some wifi routers as it seem already they have some known issues. Again, something the devices Mfr needs to address. 

 

Good Luck. 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM2000 Modem | Wifi Router RAXE50 and R8500(v.158) Router Mode | Switches NG GS105/8 | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700, GS308v3

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