Orbi WiFi 7 RBE973
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RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

campolo313
Apprentice

RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

Hello,

I recently changed from the Orbi RBK53 to the Orbi RBK753S, and now I am having issues with my Xbox kicking all my devices off wifi and causing my whole system to reboot.  I am have no issues on any other devices, including my Nintendo Switch where I'm able to play online.

This is the setup I have:
Internet: Xfinity Gigabit Speed
Modem - CM1000 (this is a modem only, not a modem/router combo)
Router - RBR750
Game Systems - Xbox One X, Xbox One, Nintendo Switch

Cause: Going an Xbox Party Chat will cause my Router to reboot entirely, if I happen to get past that section, anyone joining my online game will cause a reboot.  I can play the same games connected online solo with no issues.

Web Interface is showing that I have No Firmware Updates (currently on V3.2.15.25_1.3.15).  I do see that there is a hotfix firmware, so I will try installing that later tonight, but from the posts I have read it doesn't appear related to this issue.

My Xbox One X is wired to my RBR750, as is my Nintendo Switch.  The other Xbox is wired to the RBS750.

I have UPnP On, IPv6 is turned on.  Both are coming through on the Xbox.

Netgear Armor is enabled.

I have all the default settings with the exception of lowering the transmit power of my 2.4ghz band to 50%, turning on IPv6, Enable Traffic Meter, and I set my DNS Servers to use the OpenDNS Servers for both IPv4 and IPv6.

I have tried the following with no success:
NAT Filtering Secure changed to Open
NAT Filtering Disable SIP ALG
Disable Port Scan and DoS Protection
Disable UPnP
Disable Netgear Armor

These setting changes were done through the Web Interface.

Additionally, I will occasionally get a Double NAT Detected error, but I can't consistently reproduce it.  I have done a tracert 8.8.8.8 and only the first hop is a private IP Address.

Unfortunately I can't see the logs in the router due to the reboot clearing them, I am asking support if I can get those reports.

Message 1 of 36

Accepted Solutions
campolo313
Apprentice

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT


@FURRYe38 wrote:

Do any of your consoles have automatic updates even when turned off? If so, possible the port is being reporting active when this happens. 


Yes, both my Xbox are set to "Instant On" and my Switch is also, so I think they are holding the port open once it has been used.  But it does look like UPnP is doing it's job and deleting the Port Mapping when another system requests it, it just doesn't delete it when the system Powers Down, so I'm just going to monitor it.

I do have good news as I was able to just play an hour and a half of Breakpoint with the guy that was crashing me, so I am going to mark this thread as solved.

For those looking for help in the future, here is what ended up being my solution:

Upgrading to the latest firmware (V3.2.16.6_1.4.4)
Changing NAT Filter from Secure to Open

This gave all my systems Open NAT and Full Cone NAT.

View solution in original post

Message 31 of 36

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FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

Does this happen with the wire connected xbox or the wireless connectred xbox? 

Has a factory reset and setup from scratch been performed since last FW update? 

 

I have two xboxes, both wire connected. No Armor or IPv6 enabled. NAT FIlter set to secure. I played last nite for a while on MW also in chat. Haven't see this kind of behavior though I have 850 series system and using v32 FW. 

Message 2 of 36
campolo313
Apprentice

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

This happens with the Xbox One X that is wired to the Router.  I am not sure if there's an issue with the other one yet, as that one is used by my kids and they don't typically game online.  I can consistently reproduce the router rebooting with the Xbox Party Chat.

I haven't had a Firmware Update since I first set it up since I have only had it for a little under two weeks, so it should have technically came factory setup.  I will try to factory reset when I flash to v32, but I'll have to do that over the weekend since I work from home and need my internet and I can't risk the rest of my setup.

One potential difference I am noticing in your setup is that you have your 850 Series as an AP versus mine being a router, not sure if that would make a difference in the outcome.

Message 3 of 36
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

Ya I need to change my sig mode, the RBR is now in router mode, been since v32 came out. 

 

Try your one xbox wirelessly connected to see if the problem still happens. Then try the other xbox with the wired xbox turned OFF and see if the problem continues. 

 

I know that there is 1 problem with NAT FIlter on Orbi since it first came out. I filed a bug report on it. NAT FIlter set to OPEN which should be used for two or more game consoles connected behind a router, it's broke on Orbi AX. Open should report FULL CONE NAT. IT reports Port Address Restricted NAT which is incorrect of that setting. PAR is for SECURE setting. I finally go word that NG fixed it and would push it on next major FW update. I hoped v32 had it but didn't so I presume next FW update will have this fix. 

Reason behind using NAT Filter:

https://badmodems.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21

Message 4 of 36
campolo313
Apprentice

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

I have tried wirelessly with the same Xbox One X and it still causes the entire router to reboot.

Oddly enough, when I do happen to get a "Open NAT" on my Xbox, it does show as a Full Cone NAT.

I will double check if shutting down one Xbox works, but I believe I tried that with the Xbox One X and still had issues.

Message 5 of 36
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

Might contact NG support and ask about a beta. 

 

Only other thing I would try is to factory retest the RBR and setup from scratch after loading v32. Power OFF The modem for 30 seconds then back on. Don't enable any Armor. I would disable IPv6. Leave NAT Filter at Secure. Bring online the xboxes. Set a IP address reservation ON the RBR for both. Apply and save the setting and let the RBR reboot. Hold the front power button on the xboxes until they shut off. This helps clear out all networking caches on the xbox. After the RBR is back to ready, Try the 1 xbox wired behind the RBR alone first and see if the problem continues. 

Message 6 of 36
campolo313
Apprentice

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

I do have a support ticket out to Netgear, do you mean asking for a beta firmware? Is that something they do?

I'm going to have to try this over the weekend since it's a lot of moving parts and I don't want to screw up my access for the rest of my stuff.

Do I Factory Reset the router and the Satelites or just the router? Should I try flashing the firmware before doing that?

Ideally I would like to keep both Netgear Armor enabled and IPv6 since Netgear Armor was part of the reason I got the RBK753S version, are you suggesting this for testing purposes or have there been reports of either of these causing issues?

Message 7 of 36
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

Yes

 

Just the router.

 

Yes, Armor has been known to cause problems. 

Message 8 of 36
campolo313
Apprentice

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

I will try the firmware first with the router reset.

Netgear Support also recommended the following:
May you also try to Enable SIP ALG, And Disable IGMP Proxying.
Uncheck the Disable SIP ALG
Uncheck Disable IGMP Proxying
Set MTU size to 1484

If I still have issues, I will try disabling Netgear Armor.

Message 9 of 36
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

Please leave Armor disabled. 

Message 10 of 36
campolo313
Apprentice

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

I'm going to test it first with all the default factory settings first, but I will have to eventually test it with Netgear Armor enabled, because Netgear Armor is one of the reasons I went with this line of Orbi.  Having to disable a key feature for me just to be able to play Xbox One online would be a dealbreaker for me.  Provided that Netgear Support wouldn't be able to make a firmware update before my return window expired.

Message 11 of 36
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

Armor is it's own animal. Something to post about if this is the cause over in the Armor forum:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/NETGEAR-Armor/bd-p/en-home-armor

Message 12 of 36
campolo313
Apprentice

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

Well after a hectic weekend of running through all the different suggestions here and from Netgear Support. I am still running into the same issues.

The only way I was even able to get into a Party Chat and play a game for 5 Minutes was by disabling UPnP and completely shutting down the other Xbox. Even with that, I would still eventually get a soft reboot of my entire system. I did notice that I’m now consistently getting a Double NAT error, so I am contacting Xfinity to see if they have a Carrier Grade NAT.

But at this point, I’m running out of options.
Message 13 of 36
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

What did NG support do or help you out with? Xfinity usually donesn't have carrier grade NAT in between you and them. Though please contact them to see if they can let you know about this and if they notice anything on there side with XBL and NAT issues.

 

I'll see if NG moderators can review this. 

 


@campolo313 wrote:
Well after a hectic weekend of running through all the different suggestions here and from Netgear Support. I am still running into the same issues.

The only way I was even able to get into a Party Chat and play a game for 5 Minutes was by disabling UPnP and completely shutting down the other Xbox. Even with that, I would still eventually get a soft reboot of my entire system. I did notice that I’m now consistently getting a Double NAT error, so I am contacting Xfinity to see if they have a Carrier Grade NAT.

But at this point, I’m running out of options.

 

Message 14 of 36
campolo313
Apprentice

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

Here were the items that they had me try:

Connect Xboxes wireless and see if same issue persist
Upload Hotfix firmware
Enable SIP ALG and Disable IGMP Proxying
Set MTU size to 1484

Clear Game Cache on the Xbox One

Clear the Network Card Cache (alternate MAC address)

I did contact Xfinity and they confirmed that the signal on my modem looks good, they said they were not aware of any Carrier Grade NAT.

Currently I am still getting a Double NAT even with one Xbox fully shut down, so I'm thinking it might be related to the NAT Filtering you mentioned on other threads @FURRYe38 .

Netgear is sending my case to a Senior Technician, so I'm going to ask them about a BETA Firmware, because at this point, I don't think there's going to be much I can do on my end.

I do still have my old RBK53, so if I can't get it fixed through this week, I will likely try going back to those to confirm it's an issue with the new ones.

Message 15 of 36
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

I've asked NG to look into this as well. I know that NG has fixed the NAT Filter problem I found for the 8 series. I presume this was a follow on problem on the 7 series. I'm hoping they will migrate this fix to the 7 series. I think that fix may help or if not there maybe a hardware problem with your particular systme and needs to be RMAd. 

 

I send NG my information regarding this  to the mod's. Hopefully NG can get this sorted for you. 

Message 16 of 36
campolo313
Apprentice

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

Thank you very much, I appreciate the amount of support you give the community.

Was the NAT Filtering solved for you by the stock firmware or was it related to the BETA Firmware you mentioned?  I'm curious because it looks like the Firmware Versions are the same for both products, so they might be developed together.

Message 17 of 36
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

This was a beta build they sent me. Once I verified it was fixed, they said it should be seen in the next FW update, though this was about the same time v32 appeared. I checked v32 and it didn't have the fix so I presume they didn't included it in v32. I'm hoping something appears in next FW update for both 7 and 8 series Orbi AX. 

Message 18 of 36
campolo313
Apprentice

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

I have an update, I spoke to a Senior Technician yesterday, and he thinks it might be a firmware issue, especially given the Double NAT issue.  Luckily he thinks that a firmware update should be coming out soon, so I will be keeping my eyes out for it.  I also sent them some of the other posts from this board with similar issues, so the team will be investigating that.

Message 19 of 36
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

Good to hear. Ya I also let NG know about this as well. Hoping that the fix I saw will come out soon too. I will be nice to have the NAT Filter fixed for everyone. I know it works and should help with your system. 

Message 20 of 36
campolo313
Apprentice

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

From what he was saying, he said he thinks the firmware is scheduled to be released either this week or next week.  He wasn't sure about the NAT Filtering fix being in it, but if it was in that BETA Firmware, I'm hoping it is likely.  I'll update this post again once that firmware drops to see if my issue is fixed.

I appreciate all the help!

Message 21 of 36
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

If you get a chance to ask him, ask him to see if he can confirm that the NAT Filter fix is on the table. Don't want that to fall off lol. If he needs a bug number, give him IR-192 and 194.

Message 22 of 36
campolo313
Apprentice

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

I believe he was going to ask the team, but I will send a note on my Case to see if he can check.

Message 23 of 36
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

Smiley Wink

Message 24 of 36
campolo313
Apprentice

Re: RBK753S - Xbox Causes Router to Reboot, Occasional Double NAT

So got about 35 minutes of Xbox Live in with no issues.

Firmware V3.2.16.6_1.4.4 seems to have potentially solved my issue.

I’m going to do more playing to be sure before Marking as Solved, but I’m cautiously optimistic.
Message 25 of 36
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