Re: RBR850 Frequent Disconnects Starting March 9th AM EST

warpdag · ‎2020-03-18

Grasping at straws... or debugging for free 🙂

ekhalil · ‎2020-03-18

@Wombatmatty wrote:
......... I think the fragment size might be the MOST important, especially if you have a lot of devices. It’s almost as if the router is not properly utilizing this setting, especially since I don’t have any discernible packet collisions or fragmented packets from either the router status page or any of my network traces. Setting it to a very low figure does seem to fix the issues. That’s when I noticed that my ping times were leveling out to more of a straight line on the graph as opposed to the worlds tallest roller coaster. That’s also when I noticed zero connection drops and zero lost packets.
.........

@Wombatmatty The CTS/RTS settings should affect only wireless devices as I understand it! how are your wired devices behaving now?

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-03-18

A Forum Moderator also mention try and disable uPnP on the RBR and see if this changes anything.

@Wombatmatty wrote:
Weirdly... my older Orbi with firmware from July 2019 (no more recent update being pushed) also started developing issues after I went back to it. So if nothing got updated on that one, is it possible there might be some kind of malware? I know these firmware updates are being pushed because of vulnerabilities. Similarly, system resets on that device correct the issue... for a short time. But otherwise, everything on that older Orbi was exactly as it has been for the past 2+ years. Gets ya wondering, right? Because why would an older system on old firmware develop the same / similar symptoms?

Good for thought.

Rogue_Ai · ‎2020-03-18

I have UPNP turned off by default as I prefer to have control over the port-forwards.

So I had the disconnect issue with the newest firmware despite having UPNP off.

Just got another router though and will install that later tonight as I'm giving up.

Will try to get my money back somehow given this is a $700 router.

Wombatmatty · ‎2020-03-18

@ekhalil

Weirdly... the fragmentation threshold makes all clients stable, including wired. There’s just so much weird stuff going on with the firmware. Who knows what settings in there might be crossed on the back end!?

jguice · ‎2020-03-18

I've downgraded just the router to v3.1.5.23_1.0.46 after adding the 2 update domains to the block list and have been stable for 24h now.

Here's a step-by-step of what I did (starting state described below):

Block Updates on Router

Login to router web interface (default is http://192.168.1.1)
Click ADVANCED tab, then click the + next to Security, then click Block Sites
Set the Keyword Blocking radio button to Always
Copy and paste http.fw.updates1.netgear.com into the box above the Add Keyword button, then click the button
Copy and paste updates1.netgear.com into the box above the Add Keyword button, then click the button
Click APPLY

Downgrade Router Firmware

Download the older firmware from this page: https://kb.netgear.com/000061339/RBR850-RBS850-Firmware-Version-3-1-5-23 (just the RBR850 router file)
Unzip the archive. 🙂
Login to router web interface (default is http://192.168.1.1)
Click ADVANCED tab, then click the + next to Administration, then click Firmware Update
Click the Manual Update tab
Click the Browse button and select the RBR850-V3.1.5.23_1.0.46-signed.chk file
Click Upload

Click through any confirmations and allow the router to do the firmware update and reboot.

Afterwards, check the Firmware Update page again and you should see a status message "Service unreachable" for the router.

---

My starting state was a very recent new install of an RBR850 router and 2 RBS850 satellites (3/4/2020). I started to notice instability in the form of disconnects and reconnects every 10-15m during conference calls around the 10th (and found this thread shortly after). I would also see my echo show display a yellow bar indicating a connectivity issue periodially. Prior to the steps above, all 3 units were on 3.2.10.11 (now the router is downgraded).

I haven't noticed any issues connecting other devices yet and my conference calls / echo stay connected consistently. I have 55 devices connected to the system currently and am using only wireless backhaul (AX enabled). Devices include: nest, ring, d-link, lg tv, sony tv, iOS devices, mac/windows systems, and other misc.

As an aside, I'm a previous Orbi customer from 2017 when the original system came out. I left due to the instability and forced updates mainly, and also because ASUS introduced AiMesh and had hardware at the time capable of pushing more bits. Lately my ASUS setup had become unstable after adding an additional node bringing the total up to 6. I saw that Netgear had a WiFi 6 version that could improve the wireless backhaul connection speed / distance (fewer nodes to cover more area), so I decided to give it a try again. Ironically, days after my initial stable setup this new / broken firmware was pushed.

Netgear still doesn't seem to listen closely enough to its Orbi customers as we've been asking for a (non-hacky, persistent) way to turn of auto-update of firmware for years now. Also, when you push something and find out it's broken (as this thread demonstrates), the first step is rolling back to a known good state, then assess how broken and options to move forward. It's especially important in the current times and I've found that companies who ignore the voice of the customer do so at a high long-term cost, even if they have a superior product, etc.

MeGrimlock · ‎2020-03-18

So I had started this thread, and while waiting for NG to follow up with a solution or new FW, I had been "mostly" stable by downgrading to old FW 3.1.xxxx. I keep following the thread for new updates, and saw a post on how to block the update URLS so that the Orbi's stopped trying to auto download and install the newer FW each night. I did that today, factory reset my router and satellite, stayed on FW 3.1.xxx and added the URL update sites to my blocked list.

Now, I'm having the exact same issue all over again, even this time it's impacting more devices. I'm at a total loss on this issue at this point. Could their botched FW have actually impacted the hardware of the Orbis? Meaning even on older stable FW, the issue is going to present itself at some point? It has to me. Once I pull the Orbi network down and replace with an Arris Surfboard mAX Pro system, everything is fine. The Orbis are horribly broken at this point and at the worst possible time.

Can someone from Netgear please reach out to me and let me know how to get a refund for my system? The only fair thing to do from NG's side is to offer refunds for impacted customers that have had to move to a new system to keep their networks stable during these Covid19 times. I can't simply wait for weeks and weeks until they determine root cause, fix and redeploy. Maybe i'll come back to the system in the future, but for now they are just paperweights, and offer no useful value to so many of us users.

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-03-18

Please reach out to one of the forum moderators to see what they can help you with.

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-AX/ORBI-RBR850-frequent-disconnects-to-WoW-server/m-p/1875896/...

Looks like NG has figured this out.

@MeGrimlock wrote:
So I had started this thread, and while waiting for NG to follow up with a solution or new FW, I had been "mostly" stable by downgrading to old FW 3.1.xxxx. I keep following the thread for new updates, and saw a post on how to block the update URLS so that the Orbi's stopped trying to auto download and install the newer FW each night. I did that today, factory reset my router and satellite, stayed on FW 3.1.xxx and added the URL update sites to my blocked list.

Now, I'm having the exact same issue all over again, even this time it's impacting more devices. I'm at a total loss on this issue at this point. Could their botched FW have actually impacted the hardware of the Orbis? Meaning even on older stable FW, the issue is going to present itself at some point? It has to me. Once I pull the Orbi network down and replace with an Arris Surfboard mAX Pro system, everything is fine. The Orbis are horribly broken at this point and at the worst possible time.

Can someone from Netgear please reach out to me and let me know how to get a refund for my system? The only fair thing to do from NG's side is to offer refunds for impacted customers that have had to move to a new system to keep their networks stable during these Covid19 times. I can't simply wait for weeks and weeks until they determine root cause, fix and redeploy. Maybe i'll come back to the system in the future, but for now they are just paperweights, and offer no useful value to so many of us users.

RafS · ‎2020-03-18

This was just posted on another thread in this forum by a mod:

Hi Orbi Community!

We have identified the root cause of the issue and fix will be available. Please do not block Orbi update servers so you can receive the fix. We will provide update once affix is on server.

Regards,
Blanca
Community Team

Chivvalry · ‎2020-03-18

Yeah... I'll unblock the updates when I hear someone tell me it finally works as expected. Who's the sacrifice?

@RafS wrote:
This was just posted on another thread in this forum by a mod:

Hi Orbi Community!

We have identified the root cause of the issue and fix will be available. Please do not block Orbi update servers so you can receive the fix. We will provide update once affix is on server.

Regards,
Blanca
Community Team

RafS · ‎2020-03-18

I can't do anything since I'm essential services and stuck at work for 14 hours all week.. Hopefully by the time the weekend comes, all will be worked out. I really need my cameras to work while I'm at work all day..

Chivvalry · ‎2020-03-18

Fix isnt even up yet so you got time... I do hope this works correctly. They lost a LOT of credibility and respect with this firmware debacle.

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-03-18

Well I would keep v3.1 loaded as it seems to work to keep your system running. Keep an eye on the forums for any updates on new FW that maybe coming soon. Or contact the forum moderator to give you notice on when the FW is pushed, then unblock the update servers. I'd even ask them if they can send you the FW file instead. Worth asking.

@RafS wrote:
I can't do anything since I'm essential services and stuck at work for 14 hours all week.. Hopefully by the time the weekend comes, all will be worked out. I really need my cameras to work while I'm at work all day..

RafS · ‎2020-03-18

Thanks, I might actually send them a message and ask. Like you said, it's worth a try. I don't have a choice at this point with work the way it is but I do need the system to work while I'm away.

d1mmy · ‎2020-03-18

I volunteer as tribute! I've been dealing with the issues again anyway since getting re-upgraded overnight after my initial downgrade attempt a while back. Once it's available, I'll install and report back.

@Chivvalry wrote:
Yeah... I'll unblock the updates when I hear someone tell me it finally works as expected. Who's the sacrifice?

@RafS wrote:
This was just posted on another thread in this forum by a mod:

Hi Orbi Community!

We have identified the root cause of the issue and fix will be available. Please do not block Orbi update servers so you can receive the fix. We will provide update once affix is on server.

Regards,
Blanca
Community Team

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-03-18

Hopefully they can help you out.

Keep an eye on this. Fix maybe soon.

Blanca_O · ‎2020-03-18

Hi Orbi Community!

We have identified the root cause of the issue and the fix has been uploaded to our update server. No need to do anything as this will be auto pushed for users who are using RBK852/RBK853S. If anyone has disconnection issues after the next 24 hours, please let us know.

Regards,
Blanca
Community Team

cruisencode · ‎2020-03-18

@Blanca_O wrote:
Hi Orbi Community!

We have identified the root cause of the issue and the fix has been uploaded to our update server. No need to do anything as this will be auto pushed for users who are using RBK852/RBK853S. If anyone has disconnection issues after the next 24 hours, please let us know.

Regards,
Blanca
Community Team

@Blanca_O

What's the new version number? I'm still seeing V3.2.9.2 when I check for updates?

MeGrimlock · ‎2020-03-18

I'm only seeing 3.2.9.2 as the auto downloaded FW?

@Blanca_O wrote:
Hi Orbi Community!

We have identified the root cause of the issue and the fix has been uploaded to our update server. No need to do anything as this will be auto pushed for users who are using RBK852/RBK853S. If anyone has disconnection issues after the next 24 hours, please let us know.

Regards,
Blanca
Community Team

warpdag · ‎2020-03-18

“No New Firmware Available“

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-03-18

It may not appear as something available to update. "No need to do anything as this will be auto pushed for users who are using RBK852/RBK853S."

This will be pushed by NG when they trigger this.

For those who have blocked the update servers, you'll need to unblock them to be sure your RBR gets the push.

warpdag · ‎2020-03-18

It's not push, it's more like fetch, despite what they say (happy to share wiresharks, I was one of the ones who helped others block the NG servers). Either the firmware is available for fetch/pull by the router, or it's not. It's not.

ScottD67 · ‎2020-03-19

I was one who had downgraded and blocked upgrades a few days ago. This configuration was relatively stable for me. Last night I removed the block and both my router and satellite upgraded to 3.2.9.2 overnight. When I went to the firmware page this morning around 6am ET a new update to 3.2.10.11_1.2.12 was visible so I also took that upgrade. I've been on wifi calls and video conferences for about an hour and haven't seen a drop yet (previously I was seeing drops every 10 minutes). I also have not seen my Arlo basestation or Echos go offline (they were also going offline about every 10 minutes). So far so good.

cruisencode · ‎2020-03-19

V3.2.10.11_1.2.12 was pushed overnight. So far, it seems to be stable. I haven't fully tested it yet, but it looks promising.

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-03-19

Thank you for letting us know. Will keep fingers crossed.