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Setting up AP Mode and Placement with switch

KPFT
Tutor

Setting up AP Mode and Placement with switch

I am getting ready to set up Orbi AX6000 (RBK853 the router plus 2 satellite set).  I want to use AP mode and leave my modem/router (gateway) as is.  I have a lot of wired devices and have a big switch (Netgear GS750E).   ISP gateway and the switch are in the basement which isn’t a preferred place to broadcast WiFi from (although I could put it there and buy an additional satellite if needed for the rest of the house). There are Ethernet runs from the switch to most (but not all) rooms.   Currently I have The WiFi turned off on the gateway and 3 Airpot Extremes (in bridge mode) wired via Ethernet in three rooms (roaming network).   I also have an Orbi outdoor in extender mode on my existing WiFi.   4800 sq ft house.

 

Questions:

 

  1. The instructions aren’t clear to me on the EXACT steps to set up in AP mode.  Which of these processes is right (or is it something else).  (A) setup thru app which defaults to router mode, complete all steps (set my SSID/password, setup the satillites,  THEN change the mode thru the Orbi web management login (connected to the newly setup Orbi wifi)    OR.   (B) should I skip the app and setup offline from the gateway just connected to one computer change to AP mode first (read this advice elsewhere on this forum) then proceed with the setting up the new Orbi Wifi (the SSID/Password) and the satellites (the the web management)   OR  (C) skip the app but wire the Orbi router to the gateway use the default orbi wifi settings to log into the web management page and do the set up from there with the first step being changing to AP mode) .  On page 73 of the manual  “Use the Router As A Wifi Access Point”  it seems to imply you already set up the Orbi network thru the App before you change the mode (“launch browser.. connected to YOUR Orbi network”).    It isn’t clear to me if the manual is instructing me to do (A) or (C) from above or something else.  And B I did read as recommended here (“off line”). The manual doesn’t address if the satellites should be synced/setup before or after the change to AP mode.  What a the best actual process of switching a new (not yet setup) Orbi to AP mode?  
  2. Placement vs switch.   Can I place the router (in AP mode) and satellites all connected to Ethernet runs from my big switch with my ISP gateway also plugged into that switch? This is how my current setup works with the Airport Extremes in bridge mode in 3 rooms upstairs).  Or does the ISP gateway have to plug into the Orbi router (in AP mode) FIRST then the Orbi router (AP)  to the switch?  I know as a router it would need to be placed there but it seems in AP mode it could be elsewhere so long as it is wired even if via a switch to the ISP gateway).   The reason this is important to me is I’d rather position all the Orbi’s upstairs and not in the basement as I don’t really need WiFi there.  I have found here, on YouTube and other places examples of people doing that and it working but also see comments about the satellites having to only plug directly into the router Orbi (even in AP mode) — and Orbi having to plug directly into the ISP router — some seem definitive on that need and others post they are working through switches.   Perhaps this has changed over time?  I saw some things saying they could all be on a switch but also some posted “ideally connected directly to the modem/router”.    And If all through the switch works what am I loosing that makes it less than ideal?    
  3. My switch NetGear GS750E is a “Smart Managed Plus” switch.  I see comments that managed switches may not work well with Orbi.  This is a somewhat smart switch not a fully managed switch.  Any idea if it will work with Orbi?   What sort of problems might I encounter if it doesn’t work - will it not work at all or will certain more random/small problems come up — how will I know if it is hurting the Orbi system??     If it is a problem I assume I could ID the correct wires (not well labeled unfortunately) and move the ones going to where I want to put the orbi to separate switch off the router (or directly into the Orbi if I need to keep one in the basement for that or to direct connect to the ISP modem/router)  or I’d need to do all wireless backhaul (in which case I’d probably return the Orbi for something that will work like my Airports do now).  Hopefully this switch is OK as it is fairly new (but not returnable).
  4. Orbi outdoor - part of why I picked Orbi for my new mesh is I already owned the Orbi outdoor.  I am disappointed to now see it doesn’t work in true Orbi mode with the AC6000.  Is that still the case?  If I have it setup now and if I use the same SSID/password for my Orbi WiFi as my old WiFi I assume it will just automatically connect like other devices or will I have to do some new setup?  Can I get it to show in the App or in the Orbi web management page and app or does it remain a separate login to manage/view?   

 

 

Message 1 of 7
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Setting up AP Mode and Placement with switch


@KPFT wrote:

I am getting ready to set up Orbi AX6000 (RBK853 the router plus 2 satellite set).  I want to use AP mode and leave my modem/router (gateway) as is.  I have a lot of wired devices and have a big switch (Netgear GS750E).   ISP gateway and the switch are in the basement which isn’t a preferred place to broadcast WiFi from (although I could put it there and buy an additional satellite if needed for the rest of the house). There are Ethernet runs from the switch to most (but not all) rooms.   Currently I have The WiFi turned off on the gateway and 3 Airpot Extremes (in bridge mode) wired via Ethernet in three rooms (roaming network).   I also have an Orbi outdoor in extender mode on my existing WiFi.   4800 sq ft house.

 

Questions:

 

  1. The instructions aren’t clear to me on the EXACT steps to set up in AP mode.  Which of these processes is right (or is it something else).  (A) setup thru app which defaults to router mode, complete all steps (set my SSID/password, setup the satillites,  THEN change the mode thru the Orbi web management login (connected to the newly setup Orbi wifi)    OR.   (B) should I skip the app and setup offline from the gateway just connected to one computer change to AP mode first (read this advice elsewhere on this forum) then proceed with the setting up the new Orbi Wifi (the SSID/Password) and the satellites (the the web management)   OR  (C) skip the app but wire the Orbi router to the gateway use the default orbi wifi settings to log into the web management page and do the set up from there with the first step being changing to AP mode) .  On page 73 of the manual  “Use the Router As A Wifi Access Point”  it seems to imply you already set up the Orbi network thru the App before you change the mode (“launch browser.. connected to YOUR Orbi network”).    It isn’t clear to me if the manual is instructing me to do (A) or (C) from above or something else.  And B I did read as recommended here (“off line”). The manual doesn’t address if the satellites should be synced/setup before or after the change to AP mode.  What a the best actual process of switching a new (not yet setup) Orbi to AP mode? https://kb.netgear.com/31218/How-do-I-configure-my-Orbi-router-to-act-as-an-access-point and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7LOcJ8GdDo&app=desktop 
  2. Placement vs switch.   Can I place the router (in AP mode) and satellites all connected to Ethernet runs from my big switch with my ISP gateway also plugged into that switch? This is how my current setup works with the Airport Extremes in bridge mode in 3 rooms upstairs).  Or does the ISP gateway have to plug into the Orbi router (in AP mode) FIRST then the Orbi router (AP)  to the switch?  I know as a router it would need to be placed there but it seems in AP mode it could be elsewhere so long as it is wired even if via a switch to the ISP gateway).   The reason this is important to me is I’d rather position all the Orbi’s upstairs and not in the basement as I don’t really need WiFi there.  I have found here, on YouTube and other places examples of people doing that and it working but also see comments about the satellites having to only plug directly into the router Orbi (even in AP mode) — and Orbi having to plug directly into the ISP router — some seem definitive on that need and others post they are working through switches.   Perhaps this has changed over time?  I saw some things saying they could all be on a switch but also some posted “ideally connected directly to the modem/router”.    And If all through the switch works what am I loosing that makes it less than ideal?    https://kb.netgear.com/000051205/What-is-Ethernet-backhaul-and-how-do-I-set-it-up-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-Sy... Ethernet connected RBS need to be connected directly to the RBR or connected to the RBR with a non managed, non green ethernet switch connected to the back of the RBR in AP mode and RBS connected to the switch behind the RBR.
  3. My switch NetGear GS750E is a “Smart Managed Plus” switch.  I see comments that managed switches may not work well with Orbi.  This is a somewhat smart switch not a fully managed switch.  Any idea if it will work with Orbi?   What sort of problems might I encounter if it doesn’t work - will it not work at all or will certain more random/small problems come up — how will I know if it is hurting the Orbi system??     If it is a problem I assume I could ID the correct wires (not well labeled unfortunately) and move the ones going to where I want to put the orbi to separate switch off the router (or directly into the Orbi if I need to keep one in the basement for that or to direct connect to the ISP modem/router)  or I’d need to do all wireless backhaul (in which case I’d probably return the Orbi for something that will work like my Airports do now).  Hopefully this switch is OK as it is fairly new (but not returnable). Some managed switches will work if you disable all IGMP protocols on the switch. If there is any green ethernet features, try to disable these as well. 
  4. Orbi outdoor - part of why I picked Orbi for my new mesh is I already owned the Orbi outdoor.  I am disappointed to now see it doesn’t work in true Orbi mode with the AC6000.  Is that still the case?  If I have it setup now and if I use the same SSID/password for my Orbi WiFi as my old WiFi I assume it will just automatically connect like other devices or will I have to do some new setup?  Can I get it to show in the App or in the Orbi web management page and app or does it remain a separate login to manage/view?   IF you have the RBSY, you need to load the Extender mode FW on to the RBSY, then it should connect to the Orbi AX system.

 

 


 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM2000 Modem | Wifi Router RAXE50 and R8500(v.158) Router Mode and RBK752(v.2) AP mode | Switches NG GS105/8 | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700, GS308v3

Message 2 of 7
KPFT
Tutor

Re: Setting up AP Mode and Placement with switch

Thanks for your reply.  

 

I’m just a self taught techie Mom trying to set things up for the family.  But I am a thorough researcher so I had already seen what you posted before I posted my question.   It was still not clear to me.   The video and the instructions do not show if they are doing this AFTER the App set up or if this is the first thing to do INSTEAD of the App process.   In the manual the instructions for AP mode come 50 plus pages in - which implies it is a change you might make after the initial setup.   Everything in the box talks about the App to setup. 

 

Based on your response (do you work for Netgear?) —  Ignore the instructions, ignore the app, Connect to the router before setting up and use the default Orbi wifi to use the web management and first step change to AP mode.   Is that the correct steps (basically my option C in my post)?

 

But I am still confused as my option B — setup “offline” not connected by the router came from posts including some by you..

 

your response to  https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-RBR40-not-able-to-switch-to-AP/td-p/1763866#

 

“I would factory reset the RBR and wire connect a PC to the RBR and walk thru the setup wizard, this time write down all important information. You should be able to access the UI and advanced tab/advanced settings/router and AP mode. I would not have the RBR connected to the ISP modem during this process..” 

 

In that same post micahelkenward (super user) posts — 

 

“If you want to put a router into AP mode, it can be easier to do this "off line". Do what the manual advises, configure the Orbi router before you connect it to your modem.”

 

These are examples of where I got to my option B — should I make the change to AP mode “offline” not connected to anything but one computer.   Are you saying in my case no — connect it to the ISP gateway during the process?  Why is it sometimes recommended to do Offline?

Message 3 of 7
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Setting up AP Mode and Placement with switch

Yes and your detailed as well. Smiley Wink

 

 

Yes, use a wired PC or laptop connected to the RBR. You don't have to have the RBR connected to any other router or modem at the time you set up the RBR for AP mode, or router as a matter of fact. The RBR has all you need to get it setup. Once the RBR is setup for AP mode, then just connect it's WAN Port to the main host routers LAN port. 

 

There is two way to configure AP mode on the RBR. 
Dynamic or Static IP address.

 

Dymanic means it will get a IP address from the main host router. So you'll need to look at the main host routers connected clients table to see what IP address it got, Then you can use this IP address to access the RBRs web page while in AP mode. 

 

Static means that you can set a specific IP address ON the RBR, in the same IP address string as the main host router. Example I set 192.186.0.85 on my RBR when in AP mode. My host routers IP address pool string is 192.168.0.1. The statis needs to reside out side of the host routers default IP address pool. My pool is set for 192.168.0.100 to .150. Thus I have room for other static IP addressed devices on either side of this pool. 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM2000 Modem | Wifi Router RAXE50 and R8500(v.158) Router Mode and RBK752(v.2) AP mode | Switches NG GS105/8 | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700, GS308v3

Message 4 of 7
KPFT
Tutor

Re: Setting up AP Mode and Placement with switch

Thanks.  I hope to do my setup tomorrow morning when I can finally take the current WiFi away from the work from home crew here.

 

A couple of follow up questions

 

My Netgear GS750E switch does have IGMP Snooping which I can turn off.   What do I loose (in simple terms) from turning off IGMP?   I need to review the tradeoff of what that does vs using wirless backhaul instead or returning Orbi for something where I can leave that enabed.

 

The switch has a Power management option I had already turned off.

 

So, with those OFF should I be able to place both the Rotuer (AP mode) and satillites on ethernet runs upstairs connected to that switch?  Is there a reason that even if the switch can do it that I should consider (for better performance for example) I should put the router (AP mode) at the ISP gateway instead?  This might require an extra satillite as the basement is not an ideal location.

 

I currently have my big switch connected to the ISP gateway but I also have three ethernet connections directly plugged into the gateway (my husbands office and 2 runs that do not have enough slack to reach the switch).  I assume they are fine there.  I know if I was using Orbi in router mode everything would need to be behind Orbi and these would need to move to the switch or plug directly into Orbi.  I believe I can leave them as as with Orbi in AP mode.

 

Thanks again.  

Message 5 of 7
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Setting up AP Mode and Placement with switch

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Group_Management_Protocol

I don't think you need this protocol for a home environment. 

 

As long as "a" switch is in between the RBR and RBS in AP mode you can connect all RBS to the switch. 

I have not tried connecting the RBR and RBS in parallel thats both behind a switch. I've always had a switch after the RBR, router or AP mode that my RBS connect too. Something you can try with the RBR and RBS connected to the switch that would be in front of the RBR. Let us know what you find out. 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM2000 Modem | Wifi Router RAXE50 and R8500(v.158) Router Mode and RBK752(v.2) AP mode | Switches NG GS105/8 | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700, GS308v3

Message 6 of 7
KPFT
Tutor

Re: Setting up AP Mode and Placement with switch

I connected the Orbi router between the router/modem and the switch.  I put it in AP mode.  I wanted to go with what is best even if it meant I needed another satellite so I left the Orbi router direclty connected to the ISP gateway and before my big switch.   One thing I like is even in AP mode the Orbi app/web management shows all the network items including items wired directly to my switch.  I didn’t expect that as with my Airport Extreme network I only saw the items wirelessly connected directly to each Airport (used my router login to see the whole network). This lets me use the Orbi app to see everything on my network vs having to login to the ISP router for the wired items.  And more of the items seem to be able to identify themselves in the Orbi interface than my ISP router interface.  I did test in the basement moving the plugs so the orbi was the other side of the switch and it, unsurprisingly, then didn’t have information about hardwired (not to Orbis) things connected to the switch.  So this feature is one reason to connect it directly to the router even in AP mode.   Although I think lots of people have my sort of setup with a utility closet in the basement with all the wires and would rather have all the wifi points upstairs.

 

Continued Questions (maybe I should ask these in a new post as it is differnet than my original question).

 

DROPS

I am having some odd random drops.  One device will completely drop off of WiFi and take several minutes to reconnect.    Even toggling WiFi on/off and trying to reconnect I get a connection but even when I get back on the wifi it shows connected but no internet for a while (minute?).  I did try forgetting the connection and connecting fresh to help clear out any issue but it keeps happening.  What is odd is that when this happens other devices in the area (including in the exact same place in my lap/hand) continue to work.   It has happened to several different devices — iphone, iPads and MacBook.   This never happened before.  Before I might get a slow loading page or something that seemed to stall out but not literally seeing the WiFi connection disappear.  It seems particularly odd that only happens to one device at a time and not others in the same location - I have had my iPad disconnected in my lap while using my connected iPhone right on top of it while I wait for the iPad to get reconnected.  Before the disconnects and after I get reconnected I have a strong connection so it isn’t a week connection issue (and the remaining devices show full bars of wifi web the one disconnects).   Any ideas?

 

ORBI OUTDOOR —The outdoor Orbi (that I had previously already in Extender mode).  It doesn’t seem to be working well.  It connects but speeds are slow (slower than they were before while everything else is faster — my internet is slow to start with so slow means low single digit speed tests).   Sometimes after plugging it back in I can get a good speed test but then later it grinds to very slow and unfortunately some inside things choose to switch to it and think it is ok but then later it is crawling again.  The Orbi app shows it as hardwired to the router in the basement — when it is wireless and closer to a satellite.   Orbi cannot seem to figure out what it is - sometimes it is listed as a thermostat, tablet and other random stuff.  Is there a reason this is showing as wired on the far away Orbi router (AP mode)?  I wonder if it is so slow because it is really connecting to the router vs the closer satellite.   I didn’t reset this after getting the whole system as I used the same SSID before (and it is mounted high and not easy to reset to factory, set to extender again etc). now I am going to leave it out of the network and hope for a firmware update to let it be a true satellite.   Unless there are any other solutions.

 

 

Comment/Feedback — Netgear should really have the whole AP vs Router mode in part of the setup instructions/process.  It really should be one of the first questions in the setup - do you have separate modem and router or just one box.    Even connecting directly from my laptop to the Orbi Router with an ethernet cable and using the web management I had to tell it multiple times no I don’t want to use the app, I don’t have a phone to use etc as it tried to push me back to the app.   Then even when I told it to set up myself it forced me through the process which started with the router and satellites and only after all that I could dig into the advanced to change to AP mode.   There was no way I found to switch the mode as the first step.  The web process initially gave the Orbi Router system IP addresses not on my main router.  When I changed over the Orbi Router to AP it got a new valid IP address from my router.  It took a bit of time for all the things connected to get new IP addresses.  But one of the satellites (and all connected to it) were stuck with an invalid IP.  When I realized that I rebooted but it was another problem people could abandon the product over not making it easy and clear on how to use this product if you have a router/modem gateway which is becoming a very common setup from ISPs (as far as I know).

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